Whats everyone take on the European missile shield?

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
A few things come to mind having watched the video. One of the first, and this ties directly into how/why the US/NATO might not give a guarantee that the missile shield is not 'aimed' at Russia strategic missile forces, is the mention that negotiations about such an agreement or guarantee is underway. This makes me wonder just what exactly it is that Russia wants as part of that 'agreement'?
Something unacceptable no doubt. What Russia really wants is to be part of the system. They want to be allowed to play at the big boy table.

Last I had checked, Russia had somewhere upwards of ~1,000 warheads available, thought IIRC there was the possibility of a reduction down to 'only' 650 warheads.
2679 warheads as of December 2010.

If the European missile 'shield' is anything like the ABM system the US has in Hawaii and Alaska (total of 18-24 interceptors) then the system in Europe would have a comparable number of interceptors, and most likely fire 2-3 interceptors at each inbound warhead. That translates into being able to intercept somewhere between 6-12 inbound warheads. Unless there was some serious breakdown within Russia, I do not see how Russia would take an ICBM warshot with only a dozen warheads. Especially when some of the ICBM's can carry that many warheads aboard.
I think their real concern is about the overall direction of movement. They know that if NATO becomes hellbent on building an impenetrable international BMD shield, they can build one large enough to stop the Russian arsenal, and this is why they're working so hard to prevent things from taking this direction.
 

F-15 Eagle

New Member
so why cant they US give them a guarantee thats its not aimed at them? thats the only thing Russia is throwing a fit at...not for the sake of it
America and the rest of NATO has assured them they are not aimed at them....Russia just does not want to believe it. Part of this being Russia just wants to look strong and relevant in the world again and part of this includes making a big ordeal over nothing as a way to show off.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
so why cant they US give them a guarantee thats its not aimed at them? thats the only thing Russia is throwing a fit at...not for the sake of it
Easy answer for this. It is not meant for defense against a russian nuclear strike but when it comes to this NATO in europe will use them even if it means only half a dozen intercepted warheads.

It's the same with every other military procurement. The current buying spree of MRAPs and other vehicles for COIN environments won't stop armys of using these vehicles in any other conflict if the need arises.

One doesn't say "Oh well Let's not use this stuff as we procured it for a different purpose..." when the shit hits the fan.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Something unacceptable no doubt. What Russia really wants is to be part of the system. They want to be allowed to play at the big boy table.

2679 warheads as of December 2010.

I think their real concern is about the overall direction of movement. They know that if NATO becomes hellbent on building an impenetrable international BMD shield, they can build one large enough to stop the Russian arsenal, and this is why they're working so hard to prevent things from taking this direction.
As another poster had pointed out, Russia had offered to provide early warning radar sites, which from a location standpoint would have been ideal. Unfortunately Russia also insisted on having the ability to turn the sites 'off' as it were. A condition which the US/NATO found unacceptable.

Realistically, if Russia still has several thousand warheads, and they are fitted in bombers, artillery rockets and shells, cruise missiles and sub and surface ICBM's, the European missile shield would at best only be able to cope with a very small number of inbounds. Unless Russia fears that once a European missile shield becomes operational the number of interceptors will rapidly climb to reach or exceed parity with Russia's ICMB warhead inventory, Russia should not have much concern about such a system. In point of fact, given the ABM systems which used to ring Moscow, I would sort of expect Russia to have a significant understanding of the costs and limitations of such an ABM system. Which makes me wonder about the 'real' reasons Russia has with such a system.

-Cheers
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Realistically, if Russia still has several thousand warheads, and they are fitted in bombers, artillery rockets and shells, cruise missiles and sub and surface ICBM's, the European missile shield would at best only be able to cope with a very small number of inbounds.
That's just the strategic arsenal. The tactical one is somewhere between 4000 and 10 000 warheads, at 3 central storage facilities. The point is they definitely have more then enough warheads.

Unless Russia fears that once a European missile shield becomes operational the number of interceptors will rapidly climb to reach or exceed parity with Russia's ICMB warhead inventory, Russia should not have much concern about such a system.
Two separate points. First one is the long term development of such systems, as they increase in efficiency and capability. Second of all they dont' want to end up on the wrong side of the BMD wall. They partially see this BMD shield as the union of developed countries against third world hell holes with missiles, and they want to be part of the club.

In point of fact, given the ABM systems which used to ring Moscow, I would sort of expect Russia to have a significant understanding of the costs and limitations of such an ABM system. Which makes me wonder about the 'real' reasons Russia has with such a system.

-Cheers
Given their aspirations with the Air-Space Defense system (and by space I mean outer space) that they are trying to create they seem to consider it possible if not tomorrow, within the foreseeable future. As it stands the A-135M is already capable of seriously hampering if not preventing the Chinese strategic nuclear arsenal from striking Moscow. Given development and proliferation of systems like the S-300VM, SM-3, S-500, etc. with BMD capability they may not be wrong.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Two separate points. First one is the long term development of such systems, as they increase in efficiency and capability. Second of all they dont' want to end up on the wrong side of the BMD wall. They partially see this BMD shield as the union of developed countries against third world hell holes with missiles, and they want to be part of the club.
AND

Given their aspirations with the Air-Space Defense system (and by space I mean outer space) that they are trying to create they seem to consider it possible if not tomorrow, within the foreseeable future. As it stands the A-135M is already capable of seriously hampering if not preventing the Chinese strategic nuclear arsenal from striking Moscow. Given development and proliferation of systems like the S-300VM, SM-3, S-500, etc. with BMD capability they may not be wrong.
For the first, there is a very finite limit to just how efficient a BMD interceptor can become. In this case, an accuracy of 1:1 vs. inbound warheads (or missiles if close enough/fast enough to interceptor during boost phase). If Russia has 2,679 nuclear ICBM warheads, and sufficient missiles to far that many warheads (nevermind decoy warheads, countermeasures, etc) then a minimum of 2,679 interceptors would be required to intercept all inbounds. This is of course assuming that all interceptors work properly, do not miss, etc. Given the substantial cost for such interceptors, as well as the level of forces required to maintain such numbers of interceptors, particularly on a hotpad/ready launch status, as well as just the amount of space required to act as launch sites, there is no real way which the US or NATO could hide that level of military activity from Russia.

With respect to Russian concerns about being on 'the other side' of the BMD wall, that does not quite sound right to me. In part due to the ABM system already around Moscow, as well as the work already done on systems like the S-300, S-400 and offshoots which can/would lend themselves to BMD. It seems to me that Russia is already traveling its own road to a (Russian) domestic BMD capability. Granted, the following is IMO, but if Russia was truly concerned about the threat of ballistic missiles from rogue states like Iran, North Korea, or any similar future nations, then I would think that Russia would be lending more economic, diplomatic and military pressure against such regimes to discourage them from developing or expanding such missile capabilities. In addition, I would also think that Russia, if it really wanted to be included in a 'Western' BMD shield, would not have offered sites for ground-based early warning radars, but also wanted to be able to 'shut off' the sites in the event of a dispute with the West. Given the energy dispute which occurred in the last few years about the energy/natural gas flow from Russia to Eastern and Central Europe, I would certainly understand the reluctance on the part of NATO to involve Russia in any way where Russia could potentially disable the BMD

As for China... I admit, the number I had on the PRC nuclear arsenal is a bit dated, and also there is the whole mystery on just how much the PRC is spending on defence, and what items within defence are being purchased, upgraded or replaced. However, 10+ years ago the estimates I have come across was that the total PRC arsenal was only ~100 warheads of all types, and that there were only a limited number of systems (and warheads) capable of long-ranged delivery. I would certainly expect that all such numbers are likely to have climbed in the past decade+ since that figure came out, but IMO there would still be a decent chance that Russia could intercept any PRC ICBM's capable of reaching Moscow, nevermind the literally scorching counterstrike which Russia could deliver.

Incidentally, I am still not a big fan of BMD systems, since IMO they are still not the best or most likely delivery systems a rogue or non-state actor would use to delivery a nuclear warhead to a target. If interested, I will consider discussing what/how I see such devices being delivered via PM or email with a select group here at DT. It is not something I will discuss in 'public'.

-Cheers
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
\For the first, there is a very finite limit to just how efficient a BMD interceptor can become. In this case, an accuracy of 1:1 vs. inbound warheads (or missiles if close enough/fast enough to interceptor during boost phase). If Russia has 2,679 nuclear ICBM warheads, and sufficient missiles to far that many warheads (nevermind decoy warheads, countermeasures, etc) then a minimum of 2,679 interceptors would be required to intercept all inbounds. This is of course assuming that all interceptors work properly, do not miss, etc. Given the substantial cost for such interceptors, as well as the level of forces required to maintain such numbers of interceptors, particularly on a hotpad/ready launch status, as well as just the amount of space required to act as launch sites, there is no real way which the US or NATO could hide that level of military activity from Russia.
Hide it in plain sight. A slow and gradual buildup over two decades, coupled with say economic stagnation on Russia's part.

With respect to Russian concerns about being on 'the other side' of the BMD wall, that does not quite sound right to me. In part due to the ABM system already around Moscow, as well as the work already done on systems like the S-300, S-400 and offshoots which can/would lend themselves to BMD. It seems to me that Russia is already traveling its own road to a (Russian) domestic BMD capability.
Rather it is a capability they inherited from the USSR, and they are building on it in a limited capacity.

Granted, the following is IMO, but if Russia was truly concerned about the threat of ballistic missiles from rogue states like Iran, North Korea, or any similar future nations, then I would think that Russia would be lending more economic, diplomatic and military pressure against such regimes to discourage them from developing or expanding such missile capabilities.
They're not. Unlike western governments, the Russian one isn't terribly concerned about civilian casualties, and is willing to respond with crushing counter attacks. Also it doesn't care whether other states are democracies. So really no reason to put any pressure on them.

In addition, I would also think that Russia, if it really wanted to be included in a 'Western' BMD shield, would not have offered sites for ground-based early warning radars, but also wanted to be able to 'shut off' the sites in the event of a dispute with the West. Given the energy dispute which occurred in the last few years about the energy/natural gas flow from Russia to Eastern and Central Europe, I would certainly understand the reluctance on the part of NATO to involve Russia in any way where Russia could potentially disable the BMD
Well they're not a unitary actor, rather a complex collection of various opinions and policies. So some want to be buddy buddy with the west, while others want leverage over them.

As for China... I admit, the number I had on the PRC nuclear arsenal is a bit dated, and also there is the whole mystery on just how much the PRC is spending on defence, and what items within defence are being purchased, upgraded or replaced. However, 10+ years ago the estimates I have come across was that the total PRC arsenal was only ~100 warheads of all types, and that there were only a limited number of systems (and warheads) capable of long-ranged delivery. I would certainly expect that all such numbers are likely to have climbed in the past decade+ since that figure came out, but IMO there would still be a decent chance that Russia could intercept any PRC ICBM's capable of reaching Moscow, nevermind the literally scorching counterstrike which Russia could deliver.
Yes.

Incidentally, I am still not a big fan of BMD systems, since IMO they are still not the best or most likely delivery systems a rogue or non-state actor would use to delivery a nuclear warhead to a target. If interested, I will consider discussing what/how I see such devices being delivered via PM or email with a select group here at DT. It is not something I will discuss in 'public'.

-Cheers
That would be interesting.
 

Beatmaster

New Member
On a side note: Is the defense shield ever going to be "good" enough to stop any nation from nuking a western nation.
Imo lets assume that those interceptors would able to take out 2 nukes out of 10 (just as an example) that does not make the other 8 remaining nukes less deadly.
So imo the cost versus the gains would be nihil.
Not to mention the fact that in a theoretical example: If Russia would have to nuke the EU for whatever reason and they could do it with just 25% of the arsenal they would do it no questions asked, and if there would be a missile shield they just crank up the % used to lets say 50% and still get the job done and turn the EU into a smoking desert.
As they got enough nukes to lob them for fun if they wanted to.
My point here is this missile defense system might sound like a good idea but given the fact that it will never reach a 80% or higher "catch" rate it would be useless as any future nuke nation would know about this shield and its capability and therefor just increase the numbers of nukes just to make sure that if they ever going to nuke a nation that the job will be done.
So does this not trigger a arms race just to cancel out the benefits of the shield itself?
Keep in mind there are many nations out there who do not have nukes but if they wanted to they could obtain nuke status within a short time as the tech is widely available for the average nation.
Another thing is that a nuke does not have to be launched from a land based launch pad if a nation wants to nuke a other nation they could do it by sneaking up a frigate or any system for that matter and hit the target nearly on point blanc range which would cancel out the shield.
So imo the shield would have been great if it could get a kill ratio of at least 90% ....but lower then that its just a fancy toy with no real meaning.

Also i understand that Iran could hold the EU hostage under the threat of nukes, on the other hand would that not apply the way around? Because Iran is a reasonable force in the region but against the west it has little meaning because even if Iran would be stupid enough to do such a thing the moment they hit the red button their nation is going to be light up for the next 50 years to come, not to mention the fact that if NATO would not be able to nuke Iran for whatever reason that i am sure that the rest of the world or US will probably be more then willing to take over the red button job and still light up Iran.
Forgive me for my one sided reply here but think about it, Iran is becoming a regional power thats just a fact we have to accept but they will never reach the point of becoming a real danger to the west, both US and NATO will literally overrun Iran and even political friends or contacts that Iran does have would be going berserk on Iran if they would do such a act.
War and big talks is one but using nukes is another matter.
 

My2Cents

Active Member
My point here is this missile defense system might sound like a good idea but given the fact that it will never reach a 80% or higher "catch" rate it would be useless as any future nuke nation would know about this shield and its capability and therefor just increase the numbers of nukes just to make sure that if they ever going to nuke a nation that the job will be done.
So does this not trigger a arms race just to cancel out the benefits of the shield itself?
Keep in mind there are many nations out there who do not have nukes but if they wanted to they could obtain nuke status within a short time as the tech is widely available for the average nation.
Another thing is that a nuke does not have to be launched from a land based launch pad if a nation wants to nuke a other nation they could do it by sneaking up a frigate or any system for that matter and hit the target nearly on point blanc range which would cancel out the shield.
So imo the shield would have been great if it could get a kill ratio of at least 90% ....but lower then that its just a fancy toy with no real meaning.
Anti-aircraft missiles don’t do much better, but they are seen as a good idea. And if you only launch one missile and I can afford to use 4 interceptors 80% effective interceptors, then the chance of the missile getting through is only 0.16%, or 1 chance in 600.

And yes, there are alternative ways to deliver a nuke, and we try to guard against them too. They are also slower, under less control of their government, and, worst, are much more vulnerable to interception and capture. :coffee
Also i understand that Iran could hold the EU hostage under the threat of nukes, on the other hand would that not apply the way around? Because reasonable force in the region but against the west it has little meaning because even if Iran would be stupid enough to do such a thing the moment they hit the red button their nation is going to be light up for the next 50 years to come, not to mention the fact that if NATO would not be able to nuke Iran for whatever reason that i am sure that the rest of the world or US will probably be more then willing to take over the red button job and still light up Iran.
I doubt that a majority in any other nation in the Middle East would agree with your assessment of “Iran is a reasonable force in the region”, including Syria and Lebanon. :duel

And no, outside of idiots and trolls, no one wants to be the first to use nuclear weapons in the 21st Century, especially the USA, UK, or France (the NATO members with nukes). Of course. if Iran hits anyone with nuclear weapons doubt be surprised if that changes quickly, the UN as well as NATO does not want any of the other potential nuclear states to get the idea they can use them at will and survive.
Forgive me for my one sided reply here but think about it, Iran is becoming a regional power thats just a fact we have to accept but they will never reach the point of becoming a real danger to the west, both US and NATO will literally overrun Iran and even political friends or contacts that Iran does have would be going berserk on Iran if they would do such a act.
At the risk of invoking Godwin’s Law, that argument could be easily extended to justify allowing Hitler to overrun Europe, Japan the Far East, and Russia the Middle East. :flame

The West has allies in the Middle East that it will not abandon. Iran just has to learn to be content within their borders and their nukes will remain an unused waste of resources.
 

wormhole

New Member
Just to add my 2 cents to what My2Cents posted, the idea of deterrence is to basically to scare the other guy so he doesn't do anything foolish. If your foe has suicidal tendencies, he just might be crazy enough to try. But if he persists and actually nukes you and you nuke him back, I doubt you'ld consider that a victory or even a fair exchange.

On the other hand, put in a credible BMD shield and you plant doubt in your opponent's mind that he risks certain destruction with a very good chance that his missiles won't even reach their targets, then deterrence become much more credible.

In particular, the very transparent AEGIS, THAAD, PAC-3 conducted for the world to witness, the great majority of which have been successful of late, is one way of sending this message.
 

Deterrence Wonk

New Member
Just to add my 2 cents to what My2Cents posted, the idea of deterrence is to basically to scare the other guy so he doesn't do anything foolish. If your foe has suicidal tendencies, he just might be crazy enough to try. But if he persists and actually nukes you and you nuke him back, I doubt you'ld consider that a victory or even a fair exchange.

On the other hand, put in a credible BMD shield and you plant doubt in your opponent's mind that he risks certain destruction with a very good chance that his missiles won't even reach their targets, then deterrence become much more credible.
Well said. Of course, the biggest threat to missile defense, now, is the budget crisis. looks like Missile Defense will get canceled. It is a victim of its own technology and mission.

The incredibly complex task of shooting a bullet with a bullet is under appreciated by politicians. However, as regional powers become stronger, and emboldened by the US's decline, missile defense will become even more critical.
 

Twinblade

Member
NATO offers missile defence cooperation to India ??

Brussels: In a move that holds great strategic significance, NATO has offered to share its missile defence technology with India to build its capability to shoot down incoming enemy missiles, realising the commonality of threats faced by the 28-nation grouping and South Asia's pre-eminent power.
India, thus, becomes the only nation, apart from Russia, outside of the NATO that the US-led military alliance is willing to work in the critical missile defence technology sector.
If integrating Russian systems into the shield wasn't a headache big enough, why include a third technology tree into the fray ?
 

Bolverik

New Member
I think there are several points that was missed in this discussion
Russian objection to European defense shield comes not from concerns that it will hamper Russian attack on NATO, but that it will decrease danger from retaliation in case NATO attack Russia. In this case a lot of WMD delivery systems might be destroyed before they are used.

Also in my view it would be crazy for country like Iran to attack NATO first. However it will not be crazy for Iran to respond if it was attacked. If say Iran had 20 nuclear missiles and 15 of them were destroyed on land, 5 that left could very well be intercepted.

In other words in Russian view European missile defense system is not really a defense system, but an offensive one.

Another concern is that any missiles, intercepted by defense site in Poland will probably be intercepted over Russia, Belarus or Ukraine. Think about it. Missile with nuclear warhead intercepted over Russian territory. I know it is not supposed blow up in this case, but it might be designed to. From Russian point of view it means that missile was launched from NATO territory without any warning, resulted in nuclear explosion over Russian territory. It might even trigger retaliation. And if it will not, all NATO politics would say is “Oops, sorry. But if you helped us in our crusade to protect democracy, it would not happen.”

You might say that NATO will not attack first, but isn’t it was happening for the last 20 years with one country or another?
 

My2Cents

Active Member
I think there are several points that was missed in this discussion
Russian objection to European defense shield comes not from concerns that it will hamper Russian attack on NATO, but that it will decrease danger from retaliation in case NATO attack Russia. In this case a lot of WMD delivery systems might be destroyed before they are used.
Less than a dozen interceptors will not significantly blunt a Russian counterattack, even if they all function perfectly. They would need several hundred interceptors to do that, and a massive increase in the number of controlling radar systems.
Also in my view it would be crazy for country like Iran to attack NATO first. However it will not be crazy for Iran to respond if it was attacked. If say Iran had 20 nuclear missiles and 15 of them were destroyed on land, 5 that left could very well be intercepted.
Pray they never have 20. The European defense shield is designed to handle Iran having only a couple nuclear missiles at most. The worry is that they could use the existence of those missiles to hold Europe hostage in order to prevent anyone from pulling a Desert Storm when they attack a neighbor like Saudi Arabia. Iran is the military powerhouse in the Persian Gulf, their population exceeds all the others combined. Without the threat of USA or EU intervention they can easily take over.
Another concern is that any missiles, intercepted by defense site in Poland will probably be intercepted over Russia, Belarus or Ukraine. Think about it. Missile with nuclear warhead intercepted over Russian territory. I know it is not supposed blow up in this case, but it might be designed to. From Russian point of view it means that missile was launched from NATO territory without any warning, resulted in nuclear explosion over Russian territory. It might even trigger retaliation. And if it will not, all NATO politics would say is “Oops, sorry. But if you helped us in our crusade to protect democracy, it would not happen.”

In other words in Russian view European missile defense system is not really a defense system, but an offensive one.

You might say that NATO will not attack first, but isn’t it was happening for the last 20 years with one country or another?
Most likely interception will be over the Ukraine, but above the atmosphere so it is out of their airspace. Technically that makes it legal under Space Law.

Do you mean if an Iranian launched nuclear tipped missile flying over Russia is destroyed by a NATO interceptor that is an offensive action by NATO, not Iran? Turning that argument around -- Does that mean that an Iranian nuclear missile detonating in Europe after overflying part of the former USSR should trigger retaliation against Russia, not Iran?

Sounds awfully irrational to me.
 

spongedocks

New Member
The Cold War was never over and we are up to our chins in it once again. Let us understand that Russia is not engaged in any conflict, they are on the sidelines selling weapons to any buyer. NATO will be spent in countless ways, then Russia can make their move.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The US has offered Russia guarantees that the BMD will not be directed against them, and has invited Russia to participate in the testing of the BMD components as a means to show Russia that the new BMD will not be a threat to strategic missile forces.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: ÑØÀ ãîòîâû ïðåäîñòàâèòü ÐÔ ïèñüìåííûå ãàðàíòèè áåçîïàñíîñòè è âîçìîæíîñòü ñëåäèòü çà èñïûòàíèÿìè ÅâðîÏÐÎ

To be honest, I'm rather surprised. This is definitely a good sign. If in Russia saner heads prevail, then this should allow a de-escalation of rhetoric surrounding the issue, and long term cooperation.
 

My2Cents

Active Member
The US has offered Russia guarantees that the BMD will not be directed against them, and has invited Russia to participate in the testing of the BMD components as a means to show Russia that the new BMD will not be a threat to strategic missile forces.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: ÑØÀ ãîòîâû ïðåäîñòàâèòü ÐÔ ïèñüìåííûå ãàðàíòèè áåçîïàñíîñòè è âîçìîæíîñòü ñëåäèòü çà èñïûòàíèÿìè ÅâðîÏÐÎ

To be honest, I'm rather surprised. This is definitely a good sign. If in Russia saner heads prevail, then this should allow a de-escalation of rhetoric surrounding the issue, and long term cooperation.
Sounds to me more like Russia making the same old demands and the USA repeating the same old offer. :sleepy2

The critical paragraph would be the 5th one. (from Google Translate):
"In Russia, acknowledged that the talks were deadlocked, but the United States from efforts to find a compromise, not abandoned. Ellen Tauscher last week held in Moscow next round of talks on missile defense with the Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov”
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sounds to me more like Russia making the same old demands and the USA repeating the same old offer. :sleepy2

The critical paragraph would be the 5th one. (from Google Translate):
"In Russia, acknowledged that the talks were deadlocked, but the United States from efforts to find a compromise, not abandoned. Ellen Tauscher last week held in Moscow next round of talks on missile defense with the Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov”
The offer to join in on the testing to make sure via Russian technological means, that the BMD will not threaten RVSN deterrent is new, and in my opinion a breakthrough. The problem of course is whether the US is now willing to let Russia in on the program in a more major capacity then before.
 

Rickyrab

New Member
Sounds to me more like Russia making the same old demands and the USA repeating the same old offer. :sleepy2

The critical paragraph would be the 5th one. (from Google Translate):
"In Russia, acknowledged that the talks were deadlocked, but the United States from efforts to find a compromise, not abandoned. Ellen Tauscher last week held in Moscow next round of talks on missile defense with the Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov”
Bear in mind that this is the Obama administration on the American side doing the talks. What would happen if Cain (the apparently current front runner of the GOP race) or Romney were to take over due to 2012 elections? Rick Perry? Someone else? If the new guy proves to be a war hawk, then the US might take a tougher line and break off talks. And Russia is under a political machine. What if international disputes between Russia and America flare up?
 

My2Cents

Active Member
Bear in mind that this is the Obama administration on the American side doing the talks. What would happen if Cain (the apparently current front runner of the GOP race) or Romney were to take over due to 2012 elections? Rick Perry? Someone else? If the new guy proves to be a war hawk, then the US might take a tougher line and break off talks. And Russia is under a political machine. What if international disputes between Russia and America flare up?
Talk is cheap, so why stop? The Russians know that the system can't do squat to stop an attack of theirs, they are just complaining in an attempt to get something in return for shutting up.

Besides, when Tehran detonates a nuke all of Europe will pile on board and Russia will probably be asking for us to share the radar data, just in case the Iranian mullahs decide to include the northern infidels on their end-of-regime target list.
 
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