t68
Well-Known Member
I was more comfortable and preferred the SLR, but being ex RACT found the Styer easier to work with within the confines of the transport fleet and whilst going about most tasks with the vehicle
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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A question about the Arafura's. Have there been any plans about using containerized field hospitals on them? On the cutouts, it looks like there's room for 2 below deck and 2 above deck. Previous patrol ships couldn't accommodate these. Since the majority of the Arafura's will be NE and NW (If I remember correctly from previous discussion here) based, if there's another natural disaster- either around Australia, or in South East Asia, we could send out multiple ships to help, perhaps based around a LHD. And the Arafura has x3 RHIB's for moving and collecting personnel and patients (too choppy though?). Perhaps the Arafura's could focus on non life threatening patients. At worst, the Arafura's and the RHIB's could act as ambulances to bring patients to the LHD. The Arafura's do add extra presence and capability in this scenario, imho.
Um this is the RN thread, I think you want the RAN. Having said that, The Arafuras don’t need to containerise that sort of capability. They have a perfectly competent sickbay, and have bunks for up to an additional 20 personnel in addition to the ship’s company.
76mm guns asked a question in the RN thread about the Arafura Class.
The following graphics and Pics maybe of interest..
eg - Flight Deck graphic
Regards S
The following graphics and Pics maybe of interest..
eg - Flight Deck graphic
Regards S
Did I? Whoops! Sorry about that! My mind is always only at 30% in the morning!
Thanks for replying mate . The link is very informative.
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Boagrius
Well-Known Member
This came up in the naval propulsion thread but I thought I'd raise it here where it belongs. About ~5yrs ago, GF was very clear about the problems he saw with pursuing the French option for SEA1000:
When you factor in the inevitable delays associated with putting what is (I take it) a green fields design in the water, that capability may not begin to arrive for another 20 years(!). That is an awfully long time in the light of the PLAN's current rapid expansion & modernisation and I do wonder if a less ambitious Japanese design might have allowed us to put more boats in the water sooner?
At the time he expressed a clear preference for option J. Now, I realise the silent service is true to its name, and much of the relevant info is likely to be a well guarded secret, but is anyone aware of any information that has come to light since then as to why we went with the Shortfin Barracuda? While I am hopeful the Attack class will turn out to be great submarines, I am more than a little concerned by how long it is likely to be before they start to deliver actual capability.
When you factor in the inevitable delays associated with putting what is (I take it) a green fields design in the water, that capability may not begin to arrive for another 20 years(!). That is an awfully long time in the light of the PLAN's current rapid expansion & modernisation and I do wonder if a less ambitious Japanese design might have allowed us to put more boats in the water sooner?
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On the subject of Australia's new submarine, there was this article in Yesterday's Australian. The recommendation is that the Collins class subs may stay in service until 2048. The first of the Collins may serve until 2038. As a class that would mean that each boat will serve for between 42 to 45 years with the first of the new attack class entering service in 2034.
That seems a long time to me. As pointed out in the story a lot of the suppliers of parts for the Collins class no longer exist and setting up a new supply line and organising contracts will be an extremely expensive and time-consuming process. With the plan to keep the Collins subs in service for another 28 years, the possibility of further delays in the Attack class, and a deteriorating strategic environment it makes me wonder whether we might not be better off with an interim off the shelf buy.
For those who cannot access the Australian here is an abridged version
That seems a long time to me. As pointed out in the story a lot of the suppliers of parts for the Collins class no longer exist and setting up a new supply line and organising contracts will be an extremely expensive and time-consuming process. With the plan to keep the Collins subs in service for another 28 years, the possibility of further delays in the Attack class, and a deteriorating strategic environment it makes me wonder whether we might not be better off with an interim off the shelf buy.
For those who cannot access the Australian here is an abridged version
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Boagrius
Well-Known Member
In many respects it is quite a predicament we are in. I'd contend that the strategic situation seems to have deteriorated at a greater rate than could have been predicted at the time of the Shortfin Barracuda's selection (thank you C-19).
Now I am not buying into the Robert Gottliebsen/"Submarines for Australia" tripe here as I trust the experts had sound reasons for their decision, and that the Attack class would make fine subs given adequate time and resources. My greater concern is that our (arguably quite extraordinary) circumstances are outpacing our procurement schedule.
Ideally we might look to a MOTS solution as a Super Hornet-esque interim measure, but I doubt there is a MOTS sub out there than could adequately perform the kind of transits RAN subs must conduct en route to their patrols. That leaves you back with the current plan or maybe an evolved Collins if it could be built sooner(??). Unfortunately I do not see an obvious solution to this problem.
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Guys, please pause before posting — stop citing posts from 5 years ago. Many things have changed and a political decision was made, years ago. You can’t wind back the clock. Any attempt to do so in 2020 is counter-productive.
The Attack-Class submarine build plan has no plan B and having a plan B will hinder the timely execution of plan A: Australia’s future submarine: the best Plan B is to make Plan A work | The Strategist
You can’t go back to plan J — a point that Gary accepted once plan F was chosen. Any attempt at a U-turn is worse than just a 3 to 6 month delay in the program for the 1st boat in the water or just a A$100 million increase in costs, over the submarines’ life time.
Australia will need to think harder about how to manage its relationship with France. This must be crafted as a strategic partnership, not a purchaser–contractor relationship. There are differences of cultural perception that must be addressed. Defence Minister Linda Reynolds’s plan to meet quarterly (even via video conference in this day and age) with her French counterpart, Florence Parly, is a good first step.
The Attack-Class submarine build plan has no plan B and having a plan B will hinder the timely execution of plan A: Australia’s future submarine: the best Plan B is to make Plan A work | The Strategist
You can’t go back to plan J — a point that Gary accepted once plan F was chosen. Any attempt at a U-turn is worse than just a 3 to 6 month delay in the program for the 1st boat in the water or just a A$100 million increase in costs, over the submarines’ life time.
Australia will need to think harder about how to manage its relationship with France. This must be crafted as a strategic partnership, not a purchaser–contractor relationship. There are differences of cultural perception that must be addressed. Defence Minister Linda Reynolds’s plan to meet quarterly (even via video conference in this day and age) with her French counterpart, Florence Parly, is a good first step.
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Astonishing eh? I wonder if one of the reasons they're about to start on their SLEP might be to replace systems that can no longer be supported with ones we can support as well as introduce more modern technology in place of old? Or is it the standard "redecorate the bathroom and new curtains" renovation project with double overhead foxtails for the periscope?
Gottleibsen is a economist and a catspaw for Uncle Rupert who is still mighty offended his PM's "Captain's Pick" was ignored. You can't expect him to think through anything more complicated than a column of numbers. I wonder what he thinks the money for SLEP is being "wasted" on?
oldsig
(My apology for the rant. This nonsense gets dragged up by News Ltd every few weeks, and does my head in)
Indeed. It's not exactly unknown for old systems to be replaced because it's no longer practical to support them, is it? IIRC that's one of the reasons for the French replacing Crotale on a few Lafayette light frigates with Mistral, a lighter & shorter-range missile: at least the system can be expected to keep working for the remaining life of the ships.
Plenty of other examples.
Plenty of other examples.
Boagrius
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, thanks for the insight. Sounds like the interim solution is to keep the Collins' teeth as sharp as possible. Not an ideal situation perhaps, but it is the hand we have been dealt. Vital to make the best of it.
Trackmaster
Member
A question..GF has disappeared from the forum.
Is he in a paid position where "it would be unwise for him to comment", or did he tire of us?
We miss him too.
The Mod Team will not be replying to this. His choice and circumstance is not for public consumption.
If he chooses to let us know to clarify, we will. Otherwise the Mod Team should remain silent. Many thanks for your patience.
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BOOM !! Right there for every negative story on the Attacks, Uncle and his papers, Sky and Peta Credlin who's boss was rolled, Bolt & Gary, all friends and all highly offended by TA's demise, do we see a pattern here people ?
As you are Sig, I have had enough of this tripe being repeated !
It’s a three pronged attack of total ignorance, Uncle Rupert’s marauders, the public broadcaster (the only time that these two agree) and the muppets from APA. Rex Patrick is the lightweight outlier.
@Oberon TEXT DELETED BY MODERATOR. ANY FURTHER ATTEMPTS BY MEMBERS TO DISCUSS GF'S STATUS WILL RESULT IN IMMEDIATE DISCIPLINARY ACTION BY THE MODERATOR TEAM.
NGATIMOZART .
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A positive amount of fleet activity posted in Navy Daily.
news.navy.gov.au
A good effort for a fleet of our size coupled with a challenging year of covid 19 lock down.
Well done
Regards S
Seven ships sail as Fleet gets back to training
Seven warships sailed in the past week from Navy’s Fleet Base East and Fleet Base West to undertake a range of training activities to test newly upgraded systems and exercise as part of a Maritime Task Group.
A good effort for a fleet of our size coupled with a challenging year of covid 19 lock down.
Well done
Regards S
Collins Class submarine HMAS Waller is back in the water after her 2 year Full Cycle docking at ASC Osborne.
The link also includes a video of the evolution.
The link also includes a video of the evolution.
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