Eurofighter Typhoon Discussion Thread

turin

New Member
I guess, if they want to get started on a flight demonstrator, they would have to find the cash for it themselves. With all the haggling about Tranche 3A (3B is most likely never going to happen) I just cant see any more money being pumped into this. The AESA also seems to have priority for any kind of upgrade.
 

fltworthy

New Member
I also saw the reports on the proposed TVC version of the Eurojet. As some of us may still recall, TVC was originally a core element of the Eurofighters growth strategy. It was eliminated years ago because of cost. It's not just a matter of plugging the new engine into place. They'd have to integrate it's performance with the fly-by-wire software through an extensive flight test program. Once in service, they'd have to deal with the added maintenance of the nozzle. This is not a cheap add-on.

I just don't see the Eurofighter partners coming up with the resources to fund somthing like this. It sounds like a manufacturer trying to drum up more business, not a seriously contemplated plan.
 

Crusader2000

Banned Member
I also saw the reports on the proposed TVC version of the Eurojet. As some of us may still recall, TVC was originally a core element of the Eurofighters growth strategy. It was eliminated years ago because of cost. It's not just a matter of plugging the new engine into place. They'd have to integrate it's performance with the fly-by-wire software through an extensive flight test program. Once in service, they'd have to deal with the added maintenance of the nozzle. This is not a cheap add-on.

I just don't see the Eurofighter partners coming up with the resources to fund somthing like this. It sounds like a manufacturer trying to drum up more business, not a seriously contemplated plan.


I agree.................Yet, maybe they could find a Partner like the Saudi's for example?
 

turin

New Member
As some of us may still recall, TVC was originally a core element of the Eurofighters growth strategy.
It still is. But there is a difference between elements of a growth strategy and the options of this strategy being exercised. The TVC-element never made it beyond the threshold where plans had to be changed in order to not have it. I am not sure, what you mean with "it was eliminated"...the current development is an outgrowth of exactly those past ideas, not a change in development direction. As far as the partner nations are concerned, no talks about TVC integration were initiated. That was supposed to happen with Tranche 3 at the earliest.

The way Tranche 3 goes at the moment, such an integration is unlikely for the reason you cited.
 

fltworthy

New Member
I am not sure, what you mean with "it was eliminated"...the current development is an outgrowth of exactly those past ideas, not a change in development direction.
TVC has gone from being a core element, a "must have" as envisioned by some of the original Eurofighter partners, to an add-on that has been shoved to the back burner.

The Eurofighter came very close to being cancelled completely during the post-Cold War defense draw-down of the early and mid-1990s. Most of the haggling revolved around cost, and how to keep the overall program from becoming a budget-buster for the new, slimmer defense alotments being rolled out across Europe at the time. Part of the decision process that saved the program, was an agreement to relegate TVC from being a central capability to one that might (maybe) be added on at a future date.
 

luca28

New Member
Eurofighter Typhoon Heads to India for MMRCA Evaluation

Found on defpro.com: Eurofighter Consortium eyes $10.4 billion contract for future Indian fighter aircraft
defence.professionals | defpro.com

1defpro.com | Coinciding with the starting signal for India’s largest defence exhibition, DEFEXPO 2010 (15-18 February 2010), a German Air Force Eurofighter fighter aircraft will be heading to India today. However, this aircraft will not be making acrobatic manoeuvres for the visitors of the show but, rather, will be thoroughly examined by the Indian Air Force (IAF) as part of the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) MMRCA programme. The Eurofighter will join India’s ongoing programme, which has been initiated in August 2007 and is currently in the process of testing all participating contenders, to undergo trials until March in Bengaluru as well as in Jaisalmer and Leh. The two latter stations will demonstrate the Eurofighter’s desert and high altitude performance.

As 8ak.in recently reported, the prospects for a success of Eurofighter in India still are difficult to judge, as the European consortium is receiving mixed signals from Indian officials. While there is general consent that the performance of the aircraft is up to the expectations, the pricing reportedly is an issue. Reuters news agency quoted India’s Ambassador, Arif Shahid Khan, saying Eurofighter Typhoon is leading the race to win the new fighter deal with the Indian Air Force. The Ambassador stressed the top position held by Eurofighter Typhoon during a meeting in late January with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi in Rome.

However, a technical triumph of the Eurofighter in the evaluation phase would not automatically mean that the Eurofighter consortium will be awarded the contract for the 126 required aircraft, worth an estimated 10.4 billion. As 8ak.in explains, EADS (holding 46% in the four-nation Eurofighter consortium) has already had bad experiences with Indian procurement procedures in the past. Despite the IAF’s full approval of the procurement of Airbus tanker aircraft, the Indian finance ministry brought these plans to a sudden end, saying it would be too expensive.

The Eurofighter is competing against Dassault’s Rafale, Saab’s JAS 39 Super Gripen IN, Boeing’s F/A-18E/F-IN Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin’s F-16IL and Russia’s MiG-35. According to the Eurofighter Press Office Blog, the Eurofighter Typhoon offers a broad spectrum of operational advantages to India, such as its adaptability to severe weather conditions, high mission effectiveness and survivability in threat situations as well as considerable in country economic benefits.

Bernhard Gerwert, chairman of the supervisory board of Eurofighter GmbH and CEO of Military Air Systems, a business unit of EADS Defence & Security (DS) said: “We are well positioned in the ongoing tender [...] because the Eurofighter Typhoon is the ideal answer to the threats that India faces.” He added “The aircraft's outstanding operational performance, coupled with low life-cycle costs and a tailor-made industrial partnership offer, make the Eurofighter Typhoon a key contender in India's competition.”

Eurofighter will attempt to demonstrate the aircraft’s claimed advantages at the DEFEXPO show, where its stand will showcase a Eurofighter simulator. A success in the Indian fighter race would be a bonanza for the consortium which is searching for additional export customers since quite a while. Enzo Casolini, CEO of Eurofighter GmbH, told the Indo-Asian News Service: “We evaluate the global demand for combat aircraft in the next 20 years at around 800 units. For Eurofighter Typhoon, we target 300 additional export contracts, with Asia representing a substantial part of these orders.”


very interesting: EUROJET recently announced that, if required, they are willing to transfer their single crystal turbine blade technology to India. According to company sources, the technology transfer is currently not under the scope of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) engine request for proposal (RfP). However, the news service states “it makes commercial sense for India to choose the same engine for the MMRCA that they would choose to power the Tejas.”

The entire article can be found here: defence.professionals | defpro.com
 

METEORSWARM

New Member
Meteor Missile


11/06/2010 (Infodefensa.com) Madrid - El Gobierno español ha aprobado la autorización para iniciar la fase de producción de los misiles Meteor para el Ejército del Aire por un importe de 100 millones de euros, financiación que se distribuirá en seis anualidades. En el programa europeo participan seis empresas españolas

El Gobierno español autoriza la fase de producción del misil Meteor por importe de 100 millones de euros - infodefensa.com - Información Defensa y Seguridad


11/06/2010 (Infodefensa.com) Madrid - The Spanish government has approved the authorization to begin the production phase of the Meteor missile for the Air Force for an amount of EUR 100 million, funding to be distributed in six installments . In the European program involving six Spanish companies.

According to the review of the Council of Ministers, "the entry of Spain into the production phase are allocated to allow work packages involving technology transfer of subsystems that are being developed in other countries, mainly United Kingdom and Germany."

In this way, he adds, "will be offset produced a small deficit in the allocation of work in the development phase, besides positioning very favorably to the Spanish industry for possible exports."

In accordance with the conditions contained in the Memorandum and the industrial contract, Spain will total about 10 100 industrial return, value equal to its participation in the Program, the Ministry of Defence.

Spanish industrial participation in the design and manufacture of the Meteor air-to-air missile has been carried out through companies Navantia, Indra, Inmize, INTA, General Dynamics Santa Barbara Sistemas, and SENER.

The purpose of the Meteor Programme is the development and subsequent production of air-air missiles, long range (more than one hundred kilometers) to equip the EF-2000 and other fighters as Dassault Rafale and Saab 39 Gripen, to which capacity is provisioned air combat beyond visual range.

The Council of Ministers at its meeting on December 14, 2001, authorized the Minister of Defence to sign the memorandum of the Meteor program, along with representatives from France, Germany, Italy, Sweden and United Kingdom of Great Britain, participating countries in the program.

In December last year, the government authorized also to Defence to acquire future spending commitments to finance the production of missiles worth 100 million euros, including 2.4 million to manufacture the first batch.

At that time it was established that the needs of the Spanish Air Force for this missile are 100 units with an auxiliary material, which must be supplied in the period 2013-2016.

This requires a funding of 100 million euros, including the amount of investment for the production of the first batch, amounting to EUR 2,460,153 to be paid in fiscal year 2010.

Spanish participation

In the Spanish case, GDSBS was awarded three contracts in 2004 for the design, development and production of missile components, structure, burden of war, destruction system telemetry equipment (TBUS) and load-worth TBUS set of four million euros.

Navantia is responsible for developing the missile containers (one specific to France and another for the rest): Indra, develops the control surfaces, front structure, training and missile INMIZE wired and participates in some of the many systems engineering.

INTA is responsible for structural testing of the missile. For its part, SENER serving as design authority and subsystem supplier performance and control of the fins, and is responsible for completing its development, to realize their qualification and manufacture all series units during the production phase, points to the company.
Production needs

The estimated production is about 8,000 units, of which over 230 would be acquired by the Spanish Air Force. The program envisaged the acquisition of 50 units from 2010 to the Spanish Eurofighter.

In March 2008, MBDA successfully managed to complete the development of new missile with the execution of an actual trip to check the performance of the missile and its components, which approached the decision to enter the production phase.
 

Falstaff

New Member
Luckily I was able to visit the ILA Berlin Air Show 2010 last saturday and I will add some footage of the very impressive Eurofighter flight display in the video section later this week.

However, I was able to talk to a German Eurofighter pilot which was a first for me, although I tried real hard he wouldn't give any specific information to me :rolleyes:
What he did say was that the Luftwaffe is very pleased with the weapon system's performance and that the Eurofighter is indeed so much of a quantum leap for the Luftwaffe that they are still trying to learn how to fully exploit the EF's capabilities (Sachsen-Class frigates, anyone? ;)).
Surprising to me and again without specifics he said that the radar was very capable and that he never experienced a single occasion in which he didn't get radar contact first so far.
Talking of new Flankers and PAK-FA he expressed his confidence that the Luftwaffe is very confident to be able to handle any present or emerging threat.

Note 1: Nothing new in here, pleasant for me to hear it however
Note 2: Although I'm a German I think it's safe to say that the Luftwaffe is one of the most professional and respectable airforces in the world
Note 3: It seems to me that despite the rant about the EF's performance it is well capable enough for the Luftwaffe
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Not that a quantum leap is that hard to achieve when one flew upgraded Phantoms (Or MiG-29s) before. ;)

Nevertheless good to hear that they are satisfied with their new toy.
 

iceyjo

New Member
Regaining air superiority

Europe must be able to regain the high reputation it earned in terms of air superiority. Coming up with the latest state-of-the-art aircraft is one big step to gaining this. The only thing about achieving a high reputation is to be battle tested, a thing that I won't approve of at the moment. Let's just enjoy ourselves watching airshows. The French air force must able to re-establish themselves too if they wanted to build a strong and secure Europe.
 

benithisrael

Banned Member
Oman is discussing with Britain to buy 18 eurofigthers to replace its jaguar. Its mostly sealed.

India it seems has settled on three twin engine fighters with the Eurofighter presume to be among them, it could be one Russian mig 35, Europeon eurofighter and American.F-18.

It seems strike capablity is validated more than air superiority, hope typhoon is upto it. had it not been for US refusal to transfer source codes for radar, no other vendor would have had a chance. The consortium needs to do a lot more than just Germany's part. they should give up a share of their own work to India in the numbers they may part from their obligations of buying.if not rafale could take europeon aircraft place.
 
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Scorpion82

New Member
Yes this was reported during the ILA airshow, but I wouldn't put to much fate in this news. There are certainly a lot of countries who have shown an interest, but which of them end up buying is yet a totally different story.
 

benithisrael

Banned Member
The eurofighter being a mature program appels more than the rafale and gripen ng. Hence would be a better competitor to JSF in the long run, if it could develop some active stealth features.
 

Marc 1

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
The eurofighter being a mature program appels more than the rafale and gripen ng. Hence would be a better competitor to JSF in the long run, if it could develop some active stealth features.
OK, I'm a tad confused - what are active stealth features, and can you give me an example of what you are referring to.
 
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