Will the navy ever use variable-geometry wings

[JonMusser]

The United States had the F-14 Tomcat one of my favorite Fighters ever i have read some that there were planse to build a navalised F-22 with variable-geometry wings:
Navalising the F-22 Raptor
Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - F-14 Tomcat Replacement Proposals

which makes me wonder if some day when the F-18E,F needs to be replaced if they may again look to a plane with similar wings as the F-14.
i personally think the Air Superiority Fighters well always be manned i do not know why i just think you need a pilot i am sure many of you all well disagree so in addition to the next Navel air superiority Fighters wing well future the Plane be manned or not manned.
Proof would be great and any and all suggestions would be great!
i have also herd of plans for Air Superiority fighters to remain manned and for them to have two seats and be able to remote assign task to UCAV in theater i thought that was interesting too

thanks Jon

 

[kato]

The F-111B for the navy was variable-geometry. Of course only 7 of them were built...

 

[StingrayOZ]

The F-111B for the navy was variable-geometry. Of course only 7 of them were built...

Wonder how long before we see a varible wing UAV. Improving loiter times while also improve max speed/radar profile/evasive performance etc would be very useful.

 

[JonMusser]

Wonder how long before we see a varible wing UAV. Improving loiter times while also improve max speed/radar profile/evasive performance etc would be very useful.

i could definitely see an Unmanned Variable Wing

 

[Bonza]

Wonder how long before we see a varible wing UAV. Improving loiter times while also improve max speed/radar profile/evasive performance etc would be very useful.

From what I understand variable geometry adds quite a lot of weight/complexity - so I guess the question is, does the capability address any shortcomings in current UAV planning, sufficiently so that the inherent complications are worth the effort?

I can't think of a post-Cold War military aircraft that's had a variable geometry wing configuration so I don't know how relevant the design is these does - but I haven't really given it much thought myself so I'd be interested to hear what people have in mind when they say such things

 

[Marc 1]

I'd imagine it would be incredibly difficult to do and keep LO characteristics in the design. A more likely possibility for the future would be an adaptable or reconfigurable wing where the wing can 'morph' it shape to change the lift/drag characteristics. Again, don't know how this would work from an LO perspective.

 

[Todjaeger]

Not sure that a variable/swing-wing UAV would see service to be honest. If one looks at manned aircraft, there have been several fixed wing designs which post-date the last variable wing to enter service.

If I get a chance, I will check with a relative who did design work (principally avionics) on the B-1 bomber and the F-111D upgrade. From what I can recall both from reading I have done as well as various conversations, different wing forms/shapes generate different amounts of lift and drag at different speeds. Essentially it meant the ability to fly at both very slow and very high speeds. With a variable wing, an aircraft has the potential to get the benefits of two different wing forms as needed depending on some conditions.

However, there are some costs to being able to do so. For one thing, the necessary joints and machinery to alter the same of the wing adds weight to the aircraft and requires regular maintenance. Additionally, I believe that the structure of the wing itself requires reinforcement since the airflow and thus resistance, the wing experiences will travel in slightly different vectors depending on whether the wing is extended or not.

A significant modern downside to the use of variable geometry wings is that such a capability is not so condusive to making an aircraft LO, particularly with regards to RCS. A significant (a majority in fact IIRC) portion of RCS reduction is achieved by having the angles on a particular aircraft facing all be common. By having a variable wing, at least sometimes the wing will be at a different angular position relative to the center barrel than the tail. This can then cause increased chances of radar returns.

For more recent aircraft, modern modelling or airflow has enabled wings to be designed which manage to achieve much (if not all) of the aerodynamic performance a V-G wing can, while being in a fixed position. This eliminates the additional maintenance requirements a V-G wing has, as well as allowing for greater use of signature reduction methods.

Lastly, I have to ask for what purpose would a UAV be equipped with V-G wings? As mentioned initially, the intent was to allow different levels of lift at different speeds. The F-14 Tomcat is a great example of thing, needing a great deal of lift generated at low speed, yet also needing to be able to make supersonic dashes as well. In the case of a UAV, why would it need to make a high speed dashes? As I understood it, one of their advantages was the potential, depending on model/fitout to have very high loiter/endurance times. A high speed dash seems to run counter to that.

-Cheers

 

[kato]

I can't think of a post-Cold War military aircraft that's had a variable geometry wing configuration

I can't think of a post-Cold War military aircraft design at all.

 

[Bonza]

I can't think of a post-Cold War military aircraft design at all.

Hahaha touche

Well allow me to rephrase, I can't think of an aircraft design from the last what, 20 years that has include variable geometry wings.

It'd be odd if they revisited it now - doesn't seem to be the same need for a combination of high speed dash and long range loiter in one platform like the F-14 achieved, correct me if I'm wrong though. The systems for managing airspace around the fleet seem to have moved beyond it.

 

[aaaditya]

i believe that the variable geometry design has become outdated with the advent of the engine thrust vector control and the use of canards,especially considering the amount of weight saving that can be achieved with the use of tvc ,also i believe that the thrust vector control reduces the amount of maintainence required as well as the components.

so i doubt any one would go back to the variable geometry design unless it is absolutely revolutionery and offers superior advantages than the existing systems.

 

[Marc 1]

Hahaha touche

Well allow me to rephrase, I can't think of an aircraft design from the last what, 20 years that has include variable geometry wings.

It'd be odd if they revisited it now - doesn't seem to be the same need for a combination of high speed dash and long range loiter in one platform like the F-14 achieved, correct me if I'm wrong though. The systems for managing airspace around the fleet seem to have moved beyond it.

I dom't know that the F-14 used the VG wings to enhance loiter time, I think you'll find that the need for the VG wings was to allow both high speed dash and slow enough for a stable approach onto a carrier deck, any other low speed advantages stem from those requirements. Also, given the size of the F-14, the VG configuration meant the wings could just be swept (further than the flight position) rather than having to incoporate a wing folding mechanism like every other fixed wing design (except the A4 Skyhawk).

 

[StingrayOZ]

Lastly, I have to ask for what purpose would a UAV be equipped with V-G wings? As mentioned initially, the intent was to allow different levels of lift at different speeds. The F-14 Tomcat is a great example of thing, needing a great deal of lift generated at low speed, yet also needing to be able to make supersonic dashes as well. In the case of a UAV, why would it need to make a high speed dashes? As I understood it, one of their advantages was the potential, depending on model/fitout to have very high loiter/endurance times. A high speed dash seems to run counter to that.
-Cheers

UAV munitions don't tend to have the longest ranges. They are also slow flying targets. We are only at the start of the UAV curve. I would imagine it would follow somewhat simular to manned aircraft. Camels with bombs being dropped out the back is where we are now with UAV's.

 

[Bonza]

I dom't know that the F-14 used the VG wings to enhance loiter time, I think you'll find that the need for the VG wings was to allow both high speed dash and slow enough for a stable approach onto a carrier deck, any other low speed advantages stem from those requirements. Also, given the size of the F-14, the VG configuration meant the wings could just be swept (further than the flight position) rather than having to incoporate a wing folding mechanism like every other fixed wing design (except the A4 Skyhawk).

I stand corrected - thanks for the info.