What is the difference in roles between RAN Patrol Boats and Customs?

[GuyfromBrisbane]

I'm just new here so I apolgise if this has been already covered but I couln't find it anywhere.

Can anyone please tell me how do the roles of the Royal Australian Navy and the Customs Service differ with patrol boats? (Armidale and Bay class) From the information I have found it seems as though they more or less perform the same tasks. Is there a difference and if not then why are two different oraganisations operating patrol boats?

 

[StevoJH]

I'm just new here so I apolgise if this has been already covered but I couln't find it anywhere.

Can anyone please tell me how do the roles of the Royal Australian Navy and the Customs Service differ with patrol boats? (Armidale and Bay class) From the information I have found it seems as though they more or less perform the same tasks. Is there a difference and if not then why are two different oraganisations operating patrol boats?

Customs (bay class) are a law enforcement agency. The RAN (armidales) ships have a heavier loadout (weapons) then the Bay class. Also, the Armidales were not the original plan for replacing the Freemantle class. Originally they were to be replaced by a class of corvette/sloops, however they were cancelled due to budget cuts and the Armidales were the result.

Now the plan is to replace the Armidale class with a class of Corvette/Sloops basically the same as the original Freemantle class replacement plan.

:daz

 

[gf0012-aust]

Can anyone please tell me how do the roles of the Royal Australian Navy and the Customs Service differ with patrol boats? (Armidale and Bay class) From the information I have found it seems as though they more or less perform the same tasks. Is there a difference and if not then why are two different oraganisations operating patrol boats?

BPC are covered off under different legislation and exemptions.

alexas is the best person to ask - if he can manage not to pull his hair out suffering flashbacks discussing the issues.....

 

[alexsa]

There is a overlap in roles which extends from the major use of the FCPB in basically fisheries - domestic enforcement role. The difference is the Bay class gave BPC a wider reach, however both the ACPB and the Bay class do undertake the same BP roles with some operational differences. The RAN has the greatest number of assets but I understand they keep operational control over them even when undertaking BP roles. I also understand they reserve the right to redeploy for 'defencec; roles as they see fit.

Custome vessel are certifed under commercial requirements which meand they are sugject to the maritime regulator, thie doesnot apply to Navy as these are defined as "warships" and exempt from the Navigation Act.

The new Cape Class (Bay class replacement) would appear to have the capability of being armed to the same level as an ACPB but this will not happen in the immediate future. The Cape class will also have a greater ability to pick up potential asylam seekers than the ACPB reflecting the fact their intended role is BP duties. The tender for this will be announced fialtly soon so I will refrain from making too much comment.

In short the edges are quite blurred at the moment.

 

[Volkodav]

Custome vessel are certifed under commercial requirements which meand they are sugject to the maritime regulator, thie doesnot apply to Navy as these are defined as "warships" and exempt from the Navigation Act.

They don't have to comply but a lot of time, money and effort is put into making warships comply to the various civilian regulations, agreements and treaties. Nav lights on a submarine are a doozy but the effort was made, double hulling is another, as are regs restricting the use of certain materials and manufacturing processes for safety and environmental reasons.

 

[alexsa]

They don't have to comply but a lot of time, money and effort is put into making warships comply to the various civilian regulations, agreements and treaties. Nav lights on a submarine are a doozy but the effort was made, double hulling is another, as are regs restricting the use of certain materials and manufacturing processes for safety and environmental reasons.

Yep the Navy certainly are doing this as a duty of care obligation not because they have to. Customs on the other hand have to under the current legislative requirements. This does complicate issues.

 

[StingrayOZ]

They don't have to comply but a lot of time, money and effort is put into making warships comply to the various civilian regulations, agreements and treaties. Nav lights on a submarine are a doozy but the effort was made, double hulling is another, as are regs restricting the use of certain materials and manufacturing processes for safety and environmental reasons.

Do civilian submarines have to have nav lights, I guess they must. I suppose its a great one to show why there are different aims and why one isn't always "better" than the other. I wonder how they would ever meet requirements for safety devices etc in the commerical world with a sub.

 

[alexsa]

Do civilian submarines have to have nav lights, I guess they must. I suppose its a great one to show why there are different aims and why one isn't always "better" than the other. I wonder how they would ever meet requirements for safety devices etc in the commerical world with a sub.

Actually the collision regulations apply to all ships (including military) so all ships need Nav lights

 

[Volkodav]

Do civilian submarines have to have nav lights, I guess they must. I suppose its a great one to show why there are different aims and why one isn't always "better" than the other. I wonder how they would ever meet requirements for safety devices etc in the commerical world with a sub.

Good question, I suppose it depends how big the civilian sub is as I believe the requirement that could apply to military subs relates to their size. Could be wrong as I was only on the periphery of the nav lights issue as it rolled into a larger requirement relating to mast arrangement. From memory the issue related to the light being within a band a given distance above waterline and visible through a particular quadrant.

In the commercial world it is a simple case of having a non-penetrating mast of sufficient height that could be erected quickly after surfacing.

 

[Volkodav]

Actually the collision regulations apply to all ships (including military) so all ships need Nav lights

Military vessels can and, when required, are provided with exceptions, exemptions and deviations to civilian legislated and other requirements. Democracies will attempt to have their militaries adhere to international agreements but are not obliged to. An example that comes to mind is production processes (used to fabricate the vessel or components of the vessel), even when not carried out in the country buying the asset, are expected (sometimes contracted) to conform to legislated OHS&E requirements.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Its become an issue with the ever increasing inadvertent contact that other navies subs have made with commercial shipping - and esp in high traffic lanes

fortunately subs have only porpoised into nets rather than into ships - although there are a few okinawans who blame missing trawlers on subs etc....

 

[StevoJH]

fortunately subs have only porpoised into nets rather than into ships - although there are a few okinawans who blame missing trawlers on subs etc....

Except for the USN SSN that ran into the side of one of their amphibs here. Doesnt say if it was submerged, surfacing or on the surface though.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Except for the USN SSN that ran into the side of one of their amphibs here. Doesnt say if it was submerged, surfacing or on the surface though.

I'd forgotten about that one - instant CLM for that boat driver.....

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I
fortunately subs have only porpoised into nets rather than into ships - although there are a few okinawans who blame missing trawlers on subs etc....

I'd hardly call the Ehime Maru a fishing net...

 

[gf0012-aust]

I'd hardly call the Ehime Maru a fishing net...

yep you're right.... and considering the fact that there are estimated to be over 80 subs active in the pacrim at any one time its remarkable that the strike rate is so low.

the tragedy of Ehime Maru is that it was a controlled event.

accidents happen - even in controlled circumstances

 

[alexsa]

Military vessels can and, when required, are provided with exceptions, exemptions and deviations to civilian legislated and other requirements. Democracies will attempt to have their militaries adhere to international agreements but are not obliged to. An example that comes to mind is production processes (used to fabricate the vessel or components of the vessel), even when not carried out in the country buying the asset, are expected (sometimes contracted) to conform to legislated OHS&E requirements.

They are provided exemptions for operation but are still required by colregs to have them fitted and display them in collisions situations. In times of war all bets are off of course.