USAF Plans to sell F22's to "trusted allies" very soon

Sea Dog

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Inside the Air Force

February 17, 2006

HEADLINE: PLAN TO EXPORT F-22A TO ALLIES GAINING MOMENTUM WITHIN AIR FORCE

Momentum is building within the Air Force to sell the service's prized F-22A Raptor -- which is loaded with super-secret systems -- to trusted U.S. allies, with Japan viewed as the most likely buyer, service and industry officials tell Inside the Air Force.

A Lockheed Martin official heavily involved in the Raptor program told ITAF Feb. 14 that a proposal to alter course and sell the Raptor to Japan is working its way through the Air Force. Lockheed is leading development and production work on the service's newest fighter.

"Right now, [the proposal] is at the three- or four-star level" within the Air Force, the Lockheed official said. "It's not at the highest levels yet . . . to the people who really count -- but it's getting there."

Several service officials, including a key four-star command chief, that have spoken with ITAF also have confirmed that the notion of selling a yet-undetermined number of Raptors to the Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) is indeed picking up steam among blue-suited military and civilian decision-makers.

Air Combat Command chief Gen. Ronald Keys told ITAF Feb. 2 after his remarks at a conference in Lake Buena Vista, FL, that service officials are debating the notion of putting the F-22A on the international market. Several service officials, who all requested anonymity, have since said the proposal is gaining strength and working its way through the Air Force's cumbersome bureaucracy.

The revived proposal comes as Lockheed has seen the Air Force dramatically scale back its F-22A program. The service initially intended to purchase 381 fighters, but has since scaled that figure back to just over 180. Overseas sales would help the defense giant swell its shrinking F-22A bottom line.

Several industry officials employed by companies partnering with Lockheed on the multibillion-dollar fighter program contacted by ITAF over the past two weeks also confirmed the notion is picking up steam within the air service.

"I'd say there is definitely a renewed interest to develop an international variant" of the F-22A, a Boeing official told ITAF Feb. 2 at the same Florida conference. Boeing is under contract to develop several Raptor components, including its wings, aft-fuselage and avionics systems, according to a company fact sheet. Boeing also is responsible for 70 percent of the F-22A's mission software as well as other components, the fact sheet states.

Defense officials and military analysts, including Loren Thompson of the Washington-based Lexington Institute, contacted this week all agreed Japan is atop what appears at first glance to be a short list of possible Raptor suitors.

Why would there be so few nations in line to buy what is touted by U.S. officials as the most capable fighter jet in history? Sources pointed to several reasons.

First, a list of the Pentagon's most trusted partners already are heavily invested in the Joint Strike Fighter program, having sunk millions into development work and are preparing to spend a large amount of their respective defense budgets on their own F-35 fleets. And second, China and an increasingly stubborn Russia are pegged by strategic military and political thinkers as the only two nations capable of mounting an air-to-air threat against the American military and its allies. Several analysts said that would mean having an extra squadron or two of the F-22As permanently "bedded down" in the region makes strategic sense for the Pentagon.

A Japanese defense official said Feb. 14 that the Asian nation is very interested in purchasing the F-22A as a replacement for its F-4 aircraft, and confirmed the JASDF has contacted both Raptor-maker Lockheed Martin and the Air Force about buying the fighter.

The Japan Air Self-Defense Force currently has four fighter jet models in its fleet -- F-15s, F-4 interceptors, F-2s and F-1s. The JASDF introduced the F-4s in 1973 and has indicated it will begin retiring them some time next decade.

At press time (Feb. 16), the Air Force had not responded to several requests for comment submitted by a reporter over the past two weeks.

The controversial proposal would need the approval of top officials at the Defense and State departments as well as on Capitol Hill. A collective decision to export the fighter would require a change of mind from the Pentagon, Foggy Bottom and Capitol Hill.

Each Washington entity has for years resisted exporting the Raptor -- even to the coziest of U.S. allies -- based on fears some of the F-22A's most-advanced systems could "migrate" to potential adversaries, especially China. The Asian giant is viewed by many Pentagon officials and military scholars as the most likely nation that could take on the U.S. military in a 20th century-style conventional war.

Air Force officials and military analysts said before the U.S. would agree to export the Raptor to Japan, officials there would have to agree to stipulations that F-22A technologies would not be resold to other nations.

"It's hard to envision the F-22A with its current capabilities being exported, even to our closest allies. Its capabilities would almost certainly have to be 'watered down' for export," according to Christopher Bolkcom, an analyst at the Congressional Research Service in Washington.

"Would such an aircraft be attractive to foreign countries? Probably. Would it be priced affordably? That is more difficult to predict," Bolkcom told ITAF Feb. 14. "Technology transfer will likely be a critical issue" that U.S. policy-makers would have to iron out, he added.

Officials could potentially use another high-profile fighter program as a guide, if they opt to move forward with a plan to put the F-22A on the market, the CRS analyst said. "If the JSF program is able to resolve its technology transfer issues, DOD may have a model -- or at least a precedent -- for the F-22A to follow," Bolkcom concluded.

Though the F-22A is one of the Pentagon's most-valued -- and most costly -- weapon programs, existing laws place the State Department in charge of approving any sales of U.S. defense systems to other nations, defense officials and analysts were quick to point out this week. To that end, Lockheed, according to the company official, is merely "waiting for the Air Force and State Department to tell us what to do."

Meanwhile, the Japanese defense official declined to disclose the list of requirements the JASDF would slap on its potential F-22A fleet. The Lockheed official, however, noted the kinds of missions the self-defense minded Japanese air force would assign its Raptors would differ from the tasks that have been prescribed for U.S. F-22A squadrons.

Because a potential Japanese Raptor force would be focused on patrolling its native skies -- as opposed to waging combat operations in far-away and hostile territories like the U.S. models -- the JASDF could well opt to leave many of the air-to-ground capability upgrades planned for future U.S. models off their fleet, the Lockheed official said.

But overall, the company official said, if U.S. officials clear the way, Lockheed expects to sell Japan a Raptor that is "not that different" from the war planes that will fly with U.S. Air Force markings. "I wouldn't expect a dramatic change" to the fighter's closely held futuristic systems, the Lockheed source said.

As the proposal makes its way through the Pentagon and around Washington, U.S. officials are likely to engage in talks about the implications of putting the intricacies of three of the fighter's most-advanced systems in the hands of another nation -- even a close U.S. strategic partner like Japan, defense observers say.

Thompson of the Lexington Institute said Feb. 14 that defense and State officials, and lawmakers in Congress, are likely to remain hesitant to export three key F-22A systems: its electronic architecture; "aspects of its low-observable" technologies; and its next-generation data links, such as the Tactical Targeting Networking Technology waveform system.

Additionally, another defense analyst who closely follows Air Force programs pinpointed the fighter's electronic attack, and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) systems. In recent months, Air Force officials have stepped up their efforts to publicly tout the war plane's ISR capabilities.

It was not immediately clear how Japan would tailor its Raptor requirements, or how much a JASDF-specific F-22A might cost.

The Air Force's "fly away cost" per Raptor is about $130 million, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley told reporters following a Pentagon roundtable late last year. Asked how much the Japanese -- or any allied nation interested in buying the fighter -- likely would have to pay for each jet, the Lockheed official said the company "has shown the Japanese the same kind of [per-aircraft cost] numbers Moseley threw out."

The Japanese defense official told ITAF Feb. 15 that the JASDF plans to send an official to the United States later this year to discuss its fighter-replacement effort -- and the possibility of buying the F-22A -- with U.S. officials. "So, this year is the most important year for JASDF." -- John T. Bennett
 

Izzy1

Banned Member
Not too certain on that.

I have little doubt Japan will opt for F-22 and Israel will receive Raptor as the Arab air forces continue to modernise.

But apart from that, I can't see anyone else being prepared to pay the massive expense that Raptor undoubhtedly represents. I also hedge the question that their are not that many air forces out there with the infrastructure to support it effectively anyway.
 

Scorpius

New Member
exports will be with downgraded avionics?but i won't matter for countries like Israel,don't they make their own avionics?
 
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Sea Dog

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  • #6
Izzy1 said:
Not too certain on that.

I have little doubt Japan will opt for F-22 and Israel will receive Raptor as the Arab air forces continue to modernise.

But apart from that, I can't see anyone else being prepared to pay the massive expense that Raptor undoubhtedly represents. I also hedge the question that their are not that many air forces out there with the infrastructure to support it effectively anyway.

Who knows, offering F22's to the IDF may cause the KSA to change its mind about the EF2000.

Why buy the Euro stuff knowing full well that your neighbor next door will purchase an a/c that has the ability to wipe you out of the sky??
 

Scorpius

New Member
EF2000 are for replacing the Tornadoes
they will be keeping the Eagles and will phase them out I gues with Raptors but Saudi economy ain't that good.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
By "trusted allies", US usualy means UK & Australia. Japan is second to them while Israel is bit too political. U.S would need heavy consideration before selling F-22s to Israel. Israel seems to be more into F-35s.
 

Sea Dog

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Scorpius said:
EF2000 are for replacing the Tornadoes
they will be keeping the Eagles and will phase them out I gues with Raptors but Saudi economy ain't that good.
Scorpius, your statement makes as much sense as replacing C-130's with mules.

EF is not a penetration strike a/c and will never be one. EF's are for replacing the F-5's and the F-15's. But since no contract has been signed, and the door is still open-barely and it will probably be shut in the KSA face if they don't start getting with the "plan".
 

Rich

Member
This isnt all that big a surprise. But actually, when you think on it, selling the thing to dependable allies like the Japanese, Aussies, Israelis....ect kinda makes sense. It would be a big mistake to sell them to the Saudis.
 

knightrider4

Active Member
F-22

Personally I'd like nothing more than to see a Raptor in RAAF colours say a 30 Raptor/70 JSF mix but in reality it is just too expensive for Australia. Awesome aircraft though.
 

LancerMc

New Member
I would doubt Israel would have to pay for much of a F-22 buy since we still heltp fund their defence spending. Plus Israel has beening selling U.S. technology to China, so a Israel sell of the F-22 mite not happen.
 

Supe

New Member
SABRE said:
By "trusted allies", US usualy means UK & Australia. Japan is second to them while Israel is bit too political. U.S would need heavy consideration before selling F-22s to Israel. Israel seems to be more into F-35s.
How many F-22's would the Israeli's be looking at? At $180m a pop for the F-22 I can't imagine these going to Israel (cost and political fallout) and forget Saudia Arabia or any other ME state. Once you introduce the F-22's in region, ME states will be buying anything and everything they can afford to counter it. Industries focussed on air defence/military aircraft and all the doo dads that go with it, would have a 'banner' decade with all the spending if F-22's were sold to regional powers in the M.E. Given the current instability in the ME, tensions with Saudia Arabia, it would be a stupid move by the U.S gov to introduce such a plane into the inventory of airforces in the ME.

Japan is a high possibility due to U.S concern with NK and China. The good news for Lockheed is Japan can afford to buy them in numbers.
 

Izzy1

Banned Member
Lets be honest, Saudi does not need Raptor - even if Israel deployed it tomorrow, the chances of conflict between Tel Aviv and Riyadh are pretty remote. With the influence of Saudi oil, Riyadh can feel assured that any potential conflict between the two nations would be sorted out diplomatically in Washington before either side's military forces were deployed.

Second RSAF would face the usual problems it has when it comes to US equipment in that Congress is slow to release it, it usually comes in a less-effective form than that operated by others (F-15S - a downgraded Strike Eagle for example) and there are usually contractually-enforced basing limitations. Saudi is still supposed to not deploy its F-15 Eagle fleet or E-3 AWACS anywhere near her northern border with Israel. Failiure to do this, often leads to pressure being placed on US defence contractors by the State Department out here to suspend vital maintenance and spare parts supply. Thus, even if F-22 did entered RSAF service, I doubt I will ever see one at KFAB Tabuk.

Typhoon will initially replace the Tabuk based Tornado ADVs of 29 Squadron. Yet RSAF has stated a long-term intention to procure upto 200 Typhoons. With the Tornado IDS fleet of 5th Strike Wing due to undergo the much-vaunted upgrade that will see them brought upto RAF GR.4 standard (Storm Shadow/SCALP EG capability remains to be seen however) and the F-5 fleet long gorunded, the only aircraft left is the F-15. Thus, it is highly likely that the older F-15C/D fleet will make way for Typhoon, with only the F-15S being retained and upgraded to enhance their tactical strike capability. JSF in the long term is a possibility.
 

Supe

New Member
Some Gulf States have opted to buy Russian gear in order to diversify. Perhaps we might see the Saudi's do the same? This over dependency on U.S equipment is bad policy. Not a bad thing for the U.S though.
 

adsH

New Member
Scorpius said:
EF2000 are for replacing the Tornadoes
they will be keeping the Eagles and will phase them out I gues with Raptors but Saudi economy ain't that good.
Whats wrong with their economy?

GDP (purchasing power parity):​

$340.5 billion (2005 est.)


GDP - real growth rate:​

6.4% (2005 est.)
GDP - per capita:​
purchasing power parity - $12,900 (2005 est.)

GDP - composition by sector:​

agriculture: 3.3%
industry: 74.7%
services: 21.9% (2005 est.)
Budget:​
revenues: $143.7 billion (2005 est $160 Billion+)
expenditures: $89.65 billion, including capital expenditures of NA (2005 est.)AS you can see they have massive surplus!!!

Purchasing raptors would not be an economic decision but a political one !
 

Izzy1

Banned Member
Agreed adsH, I don't think we are going to see the Saudi economy crash just yet.

But going back to the original point of this thread, I really do not see many export options for Raptor.

If trusted allies are limited to the UK and Australia, then certainly there won't be any Raptor exports - the RAF are having enough problems getting funding for Typhoon, the RAAF likewise for F-35 JSF. Safe in the knowledge we both won't be going on any major military adventures without the US in the near future, our Governments will only too happily avoid purchasing them.

But if we include Israel and Japan, then I do believe options are open (although to call an order to Israel "a sale" is a little dubious!).
 

Wild Weasel

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
My opinion on the most likely nations to be permitted access to a less-capable, export varient of the Raptor are listed below.

I believe it's safe to assume that the nations that have usually been among the first to recieve top-level military gear from the US, would likely be the initial customers.
This would have to include the UK, Austrailia, Israel, and Japan.
Other nations that are likely to be considered in due time may also include:
Spain, ( Sales to most of the EU may be a long time off, due to political, and national security concerns. )
Canada, ( But Canada's lack of military spending may make a puchase of any signifigant numbers very unlikely. )
Thailand, and Singapore (?)

Nations that under previous circumstances, may have been considered for export of a top-level fighter, that are probably not going to be allowed to purchase the Raptor would include:
KSA, ( I believe that the US does not sufficiently trust the KSA enough to sell the Raptor to them. )
Taiwan, ( Because the Chinese would likely go completely ballistic, and there are real concerns with security leaks in the Taiwanese military.
and Egypt. ( selling the Raptor to any country in the ME would have a destablizing effect- although I do feel the current US administration may be willing to sell to Israel anyway.

At some point, some South American nations could also be given access, particularly those that could put pressure on Venezuela, such as Brazil. But It's unknowable how far into the future such a thing could happen.

I'd like to hear opinions from others about my above predictions.
 

cherry

Banned Member
Unfortunately, with the F-22, along with most US made defence equipment, the price is far too much for most trusted countries to afford. The US defence industry are pricing the allies of the US out of the alliance, and the US Government are allowing it to happen. Eventually true allies of the US will not be able to purchase top technology from the States simply because of ridiculously inflated costs. The UK are a perfect example of this. They are continuing to build on their defence industry and getting more European countries involved to build cheaper and pretty much just as good quality equipment as the US. This negates most of the reliance on highly expensive US equipment. And for this reason countries like Australia are beginning to purchase more and more European equipment ie Tiger ARH, MRH-90, either Spanish or French LHD, A-A refeuling tankers, etc. The US need to reel their industry in to maintain the ability for their allies to purchase their equipment.
 

410Cougar

New Member
Firstly, I don't think Canada will be getting any F-22's. They're too expensive and we've already been involved with the JSF program for a long while. We don't really need any type of air superiority planes because realistically we don't have any airborne threats anymore. Our need is more tactical airlift than anything, which is why we're probably getting Hercs and perhaps a couple of C-17's.

Secondly, close allies would definitely have to be Australia and Japan. There is such a strong alliance between the countries that you know they'll always look after each other. The only downside for Australia would be cost. They are much like us here in Canada, operating on a small budget. Japan would be great because they can afford it. However, seeing as there are US Squadrons based in Japan already that might convert from their 15's to 22's, would it make much sense for Japan to buy them?

Thirdly, Middle East is out of the question. Not even Israel will get these birds. Reality is that any procurement of a/c by any country in that region is going to tick off more people than it will make happy. Israel buys them then they are branded as having continual support from the US. Any other country that buys them is put into bed with the US which could result in a greater terrorist threat. Please don't turn this into a political discussion!

Its a great plane and awesome to see fly, but lets be realistic as to who actually requires this a/c.

Attila
 
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