Trouble in Jenin & IDF Ops in Jul 2023

[OPSSG]

Post 1 of 4: Entering Jenin as a prepared & defended urban warfare city

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1675707796501987333

1. Use of the MATADOR anti-structure munition & IDF air strikes to support military ops in Jenin means it does not bode well for Palestinian terrorists, armed & supported by Iran. Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari tells reporters that, “we did not come to occupy the refugee camp, this is not an operation against the Palestinian Authority but against the terror groups in Jenin.”

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1675688346163507201

2. "The Jenin Camp is a terrorist stronghold," the IDF tweeted. "We will not stand by idle while terrorists continue to harm civilians using Jenin Camp as a hideout." It shared a video with further context.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1675636500304740356

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(a) Tat-Aluf (Rear Admiral) Daniel Hagari, IDF spokesman, emphasized that the operation was against terrorist groups in Jenin, not the Palestinian Authority. Hagari classified the operation as a “brigade-level raid” but refrained from providing an official name.​

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(b) The IDF struck a command center for the Jenin Camp & operatives of the Jenin Brigade, a Palestinian militant group associated with Islamic Jihad. It has been reported that Hamas, Islamic Jihad and al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades are confronting the IDF in Jenin.​

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(c) Joe Truzman, a research analyst at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies' Long War Journal, wrote that the Israeli operation in Jenin wasn't unexpected.​

 

[koxinga]

"The Jenin Camp is a terrorist stronghold,"

It might well be true, but the repeatability seem to suggest that military action against terrorists is "cheaper" solution politically that trying to find a long term solution that addresses the root causes / demands of these people.

Or that the root causes / demands will never be acceptable, so this is cycle will just continue, because the IDF can "manage" the problem and there is no forseeable situation where Palestinians are able to get a military solution to their needs.

 

[OPSSG]

Post 2 of 4: Entering Jenin as a prepared & defended urban warfare city

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1675801810680922113

3. Up to 7 Palestinian terrorists were eliminated, thus far, with 8 killed. Given that the indoctrination by these Iran supported terror groups start young — more youths will be killed in the days ahead.

…that the root causes / demands will never be acceptable, so this is cycle will just continue, because the IDF can "manage" the problem…

4. I get your point here. Due to its proximity to the Jezreel Valley, Jenin has one of the largest fertile plains in Palestine, and is sometimes called the "breadbasket of the West Bank". However, Israeli restrictions have blocked agricultural sales inside Israel, which has led to the devaluation of crops.

5. The Palestinian Authority (PA) has no control over the city, due to its location far away from Ramallah (the de facto capital). Plus a large segment of the population of Jenin thinks of the PA as traitors and supports:

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(a) the Jenin Brigade, a Palestinian militant group associated with Islamic Jihad serve as a local branch for the al-Quds Brigades; or​

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(b) the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades of Fatah.​

According to Moein Odeh, the Jenin Brigades consist of teenagers and men in their early twenties, and do not have a clear hierarchical structure of command, making it difficult to track down members.

…there is no forseeable situation where Palestinians are able to get a military solution to their needs.

6. Not sure what you mean here. IMO, Jenin as a city has become a center of Palestinian militancy. There can be no negotiation for peace with the population of Jenin, as the militant groups in control — have a common starting position — the destruction of the Jewish state. And the Jews are not crazy enough to seek peace at price of their destruction.

7. Iranian foreign ministry spokesperson Nasser Kanani accused Israel on July 3 of “state terrorism” following the launch of a major Israeli military operation in Jenin to weaken the presence of Iran-backed groups. Terrorist organizations such as Islamic Jihad and Hamas have been present in Jenin for more than two decades. The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades of Hamas also have a viable presence in the face of intense competition.

 

[OPSSG]

Post 3 of 4: Entering Jenin as a prepared & defended urban warfare city

8. There are multiple videos showing an IDF D9 bulldozer clearing streets and digging up roads in Jenin.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1675691102417080325

(a) As Joe Truzman explained, “the reason this is being done in certain areas of Jenin is to locate and destroy bombs hidden below paved roads. There are also trip wires that pose a danger and need to be removed.”​

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(b) The 2002 Battle of Jenin attracted the interest of the US military (see the 2003 article: “Urban Warfare and the Lessons of Jenin” by Yagil Henkin), which is building a doctrine for urban warfare due to the prior fighting at the Hawashin district. In this battle, 23 Israeli soldiers and 52 Palestinians were killed. Hundreds of houses were seriously damaged or destroyed. To advance, the IDF used a D-9 armored bulldozer to clear a three-quarter-mile stretch of the main street to clear it of booby traps. In 2002, an Israeli Engineering Corps officer logged 124 separate explosions set off by the bulldozer.​

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1675831854690185216

9. The civilian population of the West Bank & Jenin are spared the fate of the Chechens, the Serbs, and the Somalis. This fact can largely be attributed to the tactics employed by the IDF in battle, and to the Israeli policy of minimizing civilian casualties even if it meant putting Israeli forces at greater risk. While the IDF deployed tanks, infantry, UAVs & attack helicopters, its artillery was silent.

 

[OPSSG]

Post 4 of 4: Entering Jenin as a prepared & defended urban warfare city

10. The IDF Spokesperson, Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) spokesperson, and IDF Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT) spokesperson, said that the IDF and Shin Bet have demolished terrorist command rooms in the Jenin refugee camp. Clear that Israel is acting on accurate intelligence to destroy C2 nodes.

11. Israel’s use of bulldozers is not against civilians but it is falsely portrayed as a war crime. The fact is that hundreds of gunmen with illegal automatic weapons have terrorised Jenin and laid explosives under or near streets risking lives, just to slow IDF advance. Armoured vehicles clearing streets of IEDs is way to remove them.

12. Palestinians are still attempting to launch crude rockets from the Jenin area at nearby settlements, as a video published by the so-called Al-Ayyash Batallion shows.

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(a) Last month, IDF troops found a launcher in the village of Nazlat Zayd. While true that the IDF is fighting against Palestinians in Jenin, it is not against innocent civilians but against armed terrorists who act against Israeli citizens both Arabs and Jews and to endanger the security of the State of Israel.​

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(b) As Rep. Ritchie Torres from the US House of Representatives correctly noted, “the Palestinian Authority has all but abandoned Jenin, leaving behind a power vacuum that has been filled by terrorists. In the past 6 months, those terrorists made Jenin a launching pad for more than 50 shooting attacks against Israelis.”​

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(c) Israel's Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant said: “Over the past hours, our security forces have been operating against terror hotspots in the city of Jenin. We are closely watching the actions of our enemies and Israel’s defense establishment is prepared for every scenario."​

13. The US State Dept says it is closely monitoring the IDF raid on Jenin. “We support Israel’s security and right to defend its people against Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and other terrorist groups. Today’s events further underscore the urgent need for Israeli and Palestinian security forces to work together to improve the security situation in the West Bank. It is imperative to take all possible precautions to prevent the loss of civilian lives.”

14. A 2021 U.S. State Department report asserted that Hamas and Islamic Jihad receive “funding, training, weapons, and equipment” from Iran. The report estimated that Tehran provides up to US$100 million annually in combined support to Palestinian terrorist organizations:

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(a) In Jennin, there are posters asking for teens for Jihad against Jews in exchange for US$20,000. The city is a hotbed of hate & terrorism. IDF statistics on the Jenin operation:​

(i) Over 300 suspects questioned, 30 of the arrested. 6 labs and some 300 explosive devices demolished.​

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(ii) 24 assault rifles, 8 handguns, and dozens of bullets seized. Some 20 drone strikes carried out across the city.​

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(b) The IDF operations is a result of hundreds of violent acts that have taken place in the West Bank & Israel. The persistent Palestinian use of “refugee camp” is an attempt to mislead; it was a camp in 1953, today, Jenin is a built up urban area. This planned Israeli military operation in an urban area like Jenin is not a sudden occurrence.​

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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1675918694818500608

15. The IDF brigade commander refused to shell the refugee camp for fear of injuring civilians. This is a urban warfare raid, case study, that is worth studying. Which is why the poorly trained Palestinian gunmen can engage in skirmishes in the open and shoot do ineffectively.

 

[koxinga]

6. Not sure what you mean here. IMO, Jenin as a city has become a center of Palestinian militancy. There can be no negotiation for peace with the population of Jenin, as the militant groups in control — have a common starting position — the destruction of the Jewish state. And the Jews are not crazy enough to seek peace at price of their destruction.

My point (which you have articulated as well) is the Palestine (militant) position of "destruction of the Jewish state" is unachievable, especially via military means or terrorism. Heck, even conventional means are unlikely (since Iran, a state itself has the destruction of Israel as part of its beliefs). But compromising and giving up this core belief would be difficult and would be seen as a betrayal (e.g PA)

 

[OPSSG]

Part 1 of 3: More on Jenin, Area A & Gaza

My point (which you have articulated as well) is the Palestine (militant) position of "destruction of the Jewish state" is unachievable, especially via military means or terrorism.

1. Glad to see we are on the same page.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676128847190794242

2. IDF says Palestinian gunmen showing little resistance in Jenin. The brigade level IDF counter terrorism operations in Jenin, thus far, has been amazing — light touch, with UAV strikes to aid advance.

3. From a governance and international law perspective, Jenin is in Area A; meaning that it is under the governance of the Palestinian Authority (PA).

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(a) If the PA chooses not to have elections, that's on the government of Ramallah. Supporters of Islamic Jihad, Hamas and Hezbollah insult all Palestinians who support the PA by saying that the PA is subcontractor of Israel. But unlike the Iranian supplied terror groups, PA exists by power of international law and deals signed with Israel.​

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(b) These supporters of Islamic Jihad, and Hamas (in the West Bank) and Hezbollah (in Lebanon) claim the IDF can enter Jenin or anywhere else in West Bank and arrest anyone it wants, including PA officials. This is because while the PA say they are a government, they really cannot control the terrorists funded by Iran in Jenin, so the IDF has to.​

 

[koxinga]

2. IDF says Palestinian gunmen showing little resistance in Jenin. The brigade level IDF counter terrorism operations in Jenin, thus far, has been amazing — light touch, with UAV strikes to aid advance.

I'm sure IDF will be successful. But with each success also means lesser incentive for the political leadership of Israel to pursue alternatives since IDF can be count on to stamp out these elements whenever things get out of control. The militants themselves refuses to recognize the futility of their efforts and every IDF success means a double down on their end.

 

[John Fedup]

I'm sure IDF will be successful. But with each success also means lesser incentive for the political leadership of Israel to pursue alternatives since IDF can be count on to stamp out these elements whenever things get out of control. The militants themselves refuses to recognize the futility of their efforts and every IDF success means a double down on their end.

“The militants refuse to recognize the futility of their efforts”…..good example of you can’t fix stupid.

 

[OPSSG]

Part 2 of 3: More on Jenin, Area A & Gaza

4. Iran's discontent is not due to the suffering of civilians in Gaza or Jenin. Rather, since 2022, Iran has been pouring money and weapons into groups such as Islamic Jihad in Jenin, and they are now witnessing the dismantling of the infrastructure that they actively helped to establish. The Palestine cause has become a source of income for every thief, mercenary and con artist manipulated by the mullah regime in Iran. The Palestine cause has become an impediment to every attempt for progress, thriving and liberalism.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676460280979628032

5. The BBC engaging in blood libel against the IDF, for conduct of counter-terrorism ops in Jenin. The allegations behind blood libel originate in the Middle Ages when Jews were falsely accused of ritualised murder of children. These by BBC allegations are used to justify violence against Jews. I note the indoctrination of “children” by @UNRWA schools & their recruitment into #DeathCults before making statements that imply Israel is to blame for their deaths.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676489506176872449

6. Residents of Jenin and Area A of the West Bank are trapped in a bloody and volatile cul-de-sac. This is more bloody to be sure for Palestinians. Correctly understood, the Islamic Jihad and Hamas are states within a state in any area they control. And in common with the PA controlled area, the lDF enters these areas to kill or capture these terrorists who are planning the next attack — this is a proper use of an army to protect the State of Israel.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676435118779510784

7. The bigger the fight or if rockets are fired, the more bombs are dropped by the IDF. In the latest example, in response to the rockets launched overnight from Gaza toward Israeli territory, IDF fighter jets struck an underground weapons manufacturing facility overnight used by the Hamas terrorist organization, as well as a raw materials manufacturing facility for making rockets.

 

[Vivendi]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676128847190794242

They are not "removing the source of terrorism". They no doubt killed several terrorists and reduced the immediate terrorist threat. However the "source of terrorism" can only be removed politically and diplomatically, and will require major concessions from all parties involved. Unfortunately it is not likely to happen in the near or medium future.

 

[koxinga]

It is easier for Israel/IDF to use military force than to make those concessions. And it is equally more expedient for Hamas and other militants to resort violence because to make those concessions is effectively walking back on their raison d'être.

 

[John Fedup]

It is easier for Israel/IDF to use military force than to make those concessions. And it is equally more expedient for Hamas and other militants to resort violence because to make those concessions is effectively walking back on their raison d'être.

Yep, and this explains why there is likely no solution for another 50 years.

 

[Big_Zucchini]

They are not "removing the source of terrorism". They no doubt killed several terrorists and reduced the immediate terrorist threat. However the "source of terrorism" can only be removed politically and diplomatically, and will require major concessions from all parties involved. Unfortunately it is not likely to happen in the near or medium future.

It's gonna take action that I doubt either the US or EU will look upon favorably, even Israeli society.
At this point I think there's somewhat of a consensus that on the national level, the rift is so big it's best to just separate, long term, until things normalize. But you can't really separate considering how intertwined the populations are.