Pakistan Air Defense(Animated)

[yasin_khan]

I have seen this video on youtube and have seen the capabilities of PAF and its new Fighter JF-17 and its missile SD-10.
Please tell me is it possible.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acMkjGv2hYg"]YouTube - JF 17 Joint Fighter Pakistan China[/ame]

 

[Feanor]

Looks like something from a comic book. The fighters from the Indian side are not trying to achieve any tangible objective. There is no AEW on either side and the Pak. SAMs present in the first few shots are ominously silent.

 

[OPSSG]

Please tell me is it possible.

I am a F-16 supporter but even I would have to say not likely.

Yess also posted a video featuring the Pakistan air force (the music is nice).

IMO, the JF-17 is not a preferred solution to the IAF's Su-30MKI. Rather it is an attempt at alternate sourcing because of the prior US arms embargo. IIRC, China prefers to make the J-10 for its own use (which has been designed to address Taiwan's F-16s).

Currently, the US makes:
(i) the world's most advanced fighter (F-22) and fighter jet radars (AESA) in the world;
(ii) a wide array of A2A missiles and A2G bombs;
(iii) leads the world in targeting technology; and
(iv) provides a wide range of upgrade options for their older teen series fighter jets.

Even after US allies buy US made weapons, they would sometimes have to 'spy on [the US]' to obtain key American combat aircraft codes to enable that ally to deal with and identify the potentially hostile aircraft in their area of operations. Despite all these known 'problems' in source code transfers, many advanced and respected air forces would still buy US made technology when they have a choice.

There are some very good fighters made by other Western countries. This would include the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Swedish Gripen. However, these 2 aircraft have some US technology in them. So if the US imposes an embargo on a country, the embargoed country would also not be able to buy these jets. That leaves 2 other countries who have an established sales record of making fighter jets that many other countries have bought. The Russians and the French.

China has been making fighters jets from Russian designs for quite sometime but are new comers to the sales of fighter jets. I wish Pakistan the best of luck with the JF-17. In fact, there was a report in April that there are problems with the JF-17 sale.

Do you have any updates?

 

[yasin_khan]

JF-17 is only for countries who are using Mig-19 and mig-21s to replace there crafts with this 3.5 generation plane.I dont think so that big air forces will induct this plane in their inventry.China is not inducting it in its inventry or if they induct that will be very small in number.

 

[raj_806]

Stuff fit for wet dreams, in reality there would never be any dog fight scenario in Indo Pak air conflict.
And the first plane thats shot down is a Mig-29 in the video which is shot down by a JF-17 while the Mig-29 trying to get another PAF plane in its gun sights.
If the animator had done his homework he would have known that in both Mig-29 and Su-30MKI there is a HUD,The pilot just has to look towards the plane and press the button.

 

[dragonfire]

hmmm.. beacuse both air forces have deployed fighters close to the borders i believe in a conflict dog fights would definetely be a possibility if either crosses the international border or attack a naval asset. However i dont think the results would be as one sided as shown - then again this is just for fun and motivation i guess. It was interesting to see how the graphic artist featured the Su-30MKIs evading attack by using aits 3D thrust vectoring capabilities and how during this it starts losing altitude and thereby becoming a victim of an F-16 blazing away its guns, this was discussed in a previous thread which featured a USAF Colonel stating exactly this as a possible disadvantage for the Su-30MKIs, however i believe in a dog fighting scenario a A2A combat btw a F 16 s and Su-30MKI fighter (all other things remaining the same) the Indian fighter will have a greater sucess ratio

 

[yasin_khan]

Stuff fit for wet dreams, in reality there would never be any dog fight scenario in Indo Pak air conflict.
And the first plane thats shot down is a Mig-29 in the video which is shot down by a JF-17 while the Mig-29 trying to get another PAF plane in its gun sights.
If the animator had done his homework he would have known that in both Mig-29 and Su-30MKI there is a HUD,The pilot just has to look towards the plane and press the button.

Wars are not fought by modren weapons it is fought by qualitative training if India has Mig-29 and Su-30 then Pakistan got best pilots in the region.In 1965 Indo-Pak war India got Hunters,Vampires,Gnats,Mystere,Su-7s and canberas with total more than 700 aircrafts and Pakistan got only 100 F-86 sabers,30 F-104s and 24 B-57s.Every one knows what PAF have done to IAF and IA.

 

[Bang-Bang]

Wars are not fought by modren weapons it is fought by qualitative training if India has Mig-29 and Su-30 then Pakistan got best pilots in the region.In 1965 Indo-Pak war India got Hunters,Vampires,Gnats,Mystere,Su-7s and canberas with total more than 700 aircrafts and Pakistan got only 100 F-86 sabers,30 F-104s and 24 B-57s.Every one knows what PAF have done to IAF and IA.

oo really , thats why your pilots do excercise with china , no other nation come to excercise with your pilots . IAF done the Red flag with US , French & etc. pilots ....

indian pilots also excercise with russian , singapore airforce pilot's .

you cant really compare your strength with indian worldwide strength ... As far as better pilots concern , that war will tell everyone . you cant really predict anything here .

AND i would also like to tell mods that , this thread is getting in flames now .....

 

[suryaaa]

Guys pls dont get into childish fihght.Any way i would like to know ,more abt f-16 vs su-30mki scenarios .As u pointed out dragon is there realy a disadvatage in sukhoi when compared to f-16, or is it that compared to a particular block of f-16.

 

[Bang-Bang]

Guys pls dont get into childish fihght.Any way i would like to know ,more abt f-16 vs su-30mki scenarios .As u pointed out dragon is there realy a disadvatage in sukhoi when compared to f-16, or is it that compared to a particular block of f-16.

pakistan mostly use F-16A Block 15OCU / F-16B Block 15OCU

Currently, Pakistani F-16s typically carry two all-aspect AIM-9L Sidewinders on the wing tip rails along with a pair of AIM-9P-4's on the outermost underwing racks, while the Matra Magic 2 (French counterpart of the Sidewinder) can be carried as well. They also have an important strike role, being capable to deliver Paveway laser-guided bombs. Pakistani F-16s are also capable of firing the French AS-30 laser guided missile. The ALQ-131 pod is carried as ECM protection.

where Su 30 MKI

For surface-strike missions, the Su-30MKI can be armed with air-to-surface missiles like the Kh-25MP , Kh-29L/T (up to six) , Kh-31A/P (up to six)
, Kh-59/59M (up to two) , KAB-500KR/KAB-500OD (up to six) and KAB-1500KR/KAB-1500L (up to three)& high-precision bombs which can be fitted with either laser or television guidance systems. And Over 70 versions of also guided and unguided weapon stores may be employed, which allows the aircraft to fly the most diverse tactical missions. The Su-30 can also carry a tactical nuclear payload.

air-to-air missiles, like the close-combat R-60MK(up to six/two) . the medium-range R-27RE1/TE1 & R-27RE1 (up to six/two) . the long-range R-77RVV-AE (up to six).

 

[dragonfire]

oo really , thats why your pilots do excercise with china , no other nation come to excercise with your pilots . IAF done the Red flag with US , French & etc. pilots ....
indian pilots also excercise with russian , singapore airforce pilot's .

AND i would also like to tell mods that , this thread is getting in flames now .....

Ban Bang would request you not to get baited which could result in lockdowns in threads

 

[dragonfire]

Guys pls dont get into childish fihght.Any way i would like to know ,more abt f-16 vs su-30mki scenarios .As u pointed out dragon is there realy a disadvatage in sukhoi when compared to f-16, or is it that compared to a particular block of f-16.

Only comparing platforms - not interested in a India vs. Pakistan debate

The Su-30MKI is the most advanced version currently deployed in the Su-30 series. The custom avionics gives the pilot a much better control and the TVC is invaluable in dog fighting scenarios. The Su-30MKI in general is accepted to be a better than the F-16 or Block F-16 or also the F-15s. The particular tactic in the graphic was discussed by a USAF colonel wherein he meant the F-22 raptors could take the SU-30MKI in that particular manoveor when the Su would lose altitude while using its 3D vectoring capabilities. He in the same video compares the Su-30MKI with the F-16s and the F-15s and says that the Su-30MKI is a better fighter however he also stated the F-22 raptor is much advanced than the Su-30MKI

To answer your question the Su-30MKI is a much better fighter than the F-16 (also naturaly so because the Su-30 MKI is a newer generation aircraft as such)

 

[OPSSG]

Guys pls dont get into childish fight.Any way i would like to know ,more abt f-16 vs su-30mki scenarios...

Like suryaaa, I do not want to take sides on this discussion. If you want to have a mature discussion, it would be better if the comparisons are supported by external links (to external and reputable defence websites and not forums), demonstrating where you obtained the information.

Please also consider setting up 'fair' comparisons. Further, identify if your comparisons are limited to platforms (or if you are making a systems level comparison). That way, it will be a gentlemanly discussion that is considered informed.

Let me give you 2 examples of what I mean. If you want to talk about the Su-30MKI's capabilities in carrying the R-77, you should also consider if the F-16 can carry the AMRAAM.

eg.1 Don't set up a scenario where the Su-30MKI will carry BVR missiles and the F-16 is limited to WVR missiles. It's not fair and not realistic.

eg.2 If you want to compare F-16 blocks (like F-16A Block 15OCU / F-16B Block 15OCU), please demonstrate an awareness of the possibility of a MLU for the relevant F-16 'block' and an understanding of whether the relevant F-16 'block' is BVR missile capable.​

Questions you need to ask include:

(i) What is the helmet system used by the relevant F-16 driver? For example, I know that Singapore's F-16 block 52+ drivers use DASH. Do you know the type of helmet system that the Pakistani F-16 driver uses?

(ii) When does the TVC advantage kick in? (Is it only in WVR range or are there other times it could be useful?)

(iii) What about the issue of energy management?

P.S. Please read the pinned thread on DACT. Thereafter, you will realise why most people do not like to use DACT as evidence of platform superiority.

P.P.S. Please don't use very old comparisons of fighting spirit (technology and the world has changed), unless you want to limit your discussion to that time period.

 

[Preceptor]

Thread locked. This category if for the posting of pictures, video and other defence-related media, not for discussions. Also, as per the forum rules, no vs. threads as they invariably descend into nationalist-inspired "size measuring" contests which have little or no bearing on real world situations or conditions. Please feel free to discussion the various capabilities of a nations' equipment and forces and how they would or could respond to various defence situations, in the appropriate threads and keeping in mind the forum rules.
-Preceptor