Greek /Turkish f16, collision scenarios over Karpathos

[fantasma]

Hi guys,
A couple of weeks now there are rumors and speculations among greek newspapers for the incident over Karpathos involving the collision of the aircrafts and this info i would like to share with you.
I dont support these speculations just presenting them.
Once or twice a month tuaf sents F16S escorting RF-4E to take photos of critical greek military installations over north, north east Crete (mostly targetting the sites of S-300 antiaircraft missiles, and HAF airbornes f16s to intercept them..now on the scenario of the press media.
When the greek f16s had visual contact to the turkish formation and put their aicrafts behind the turkish (the rf-4e was in the middle of the formation), Iliakis comes forward to see the equipment that the rf-4e carries and to take its number. One of the two turkish f16 with Hali Ibrahim abandons the formation and comes behind Iliakis and locks his aircraft. The other greek f16 which is left behind locks the turkish f16 that has locked on Iliakis. Hali Ibrahim calls Iliakis to go, Iliakis refuses..then the turkish pilot Hali Ibrahim gives a word signal to the other two pilots of the formation. He fires a missile on Iliakis and the same the aircrafts of the turkish formation are maneuvring violently to different directions cause of the fear of the greek f16 that is behind and has already locked on Hali Ibrahim..The greek pilot fires his missile and hits the wing (cause of maneuvring) of the turkish f16 which fells into the sea. The egyptian pilot of the civilian aircraft that was in the area said that he saw two explosions a big one and a smaller one. The same said and the captain of the cargo ship that rescued the turkish pilot.
this paper puts some questions:
1. Why the captain of the cargo ship which was heading to Piraeus changed afterwards the route to Malta.
2. Why just right after the incident 120 aircrafts of both sides were in the air
3. Why while we are in the middst of a period of redused tensions between both countries there was such an escalation that did not happened in previous incidents of "air accidents".
4. Why in the previous decade having such incidents with two turkish aircrafts and a greek one and casualties of both sides there was no such an escalation.
5. Why the greek pilots are outraged and the politicians are trying to calm them down.
6. Why the Greek Parliament right after announced capt. Iliakis as a hero and decided to adopt his children.
7. Why the Greek Goverment was in such a panic if it trully was an accident
This post is ending also underlining that the report and the video of the second pilot of the f16 never came to publishity and maybe never will. Comments and thoughts to all of you.
Best regards, chris

 

[beleg]

I dont know why Greek media refuses to accept the plain fact admitted by both sides. Even in some other respected aviation forums everyone who has insider information form both airforces accept this was indeed an accident, but ofcourse as usual both sides blaim each other for the accident.

The main reason imo for the Greek govt. to panic is simple. Their plane crashed into a TuAF plane , which was in tight formation with other TuAF planes, while intercepting it in the international airspace.

After the incident only a handfull of F-16s were in the air from Turkish side.

There are alot of conspiracy theories, in Greece ones about Turkey are popular while in Turkey ones about USA are popular.

We should not take these seriously unless there is plain evidence. You know the ones that make up these theories make a living from them.

 

[airfighter]

Their plane crashed into a TuAF plane , which was in tight formation with other TuAF planes, while intercepting it in the international airspace.

The "international" airspace is right. But, it was inside Athens FIR, without valid flightplan, that will be accepted by Greek goverment. ICAO rules. So that was a clear break of international laws. So Greece had to intercept those aircrafts. As with any aircraft (military or not) without a valid flightplan getting into any area of responsibility (FIR), everywhere on this earth. Except Turkey is not a member of ICAO...

Of course if "missile firing" had taken place, that is something that officially will never know. My believe is that any aircraft breaking into Greek airspace should collide in the air with a greek missile.

 

[Rich]

This was exactly the kind of incident that was bound to happen. Thats how big a threat the Turks consider those F-16s at Crete and the advanced AAs now positioned there. Had the Greeks insisted on putting them on Cyprus it probably would have precipitated an all out war.

Why is this one may ask?

First off lets look at Cyprus. That Island , and the Greek forces on it, are akin to the same thing as opening a 2'nd front in time of war. That air base is a serious threat to several important Turkish air bases and naval ones.
Thus even a dozen Greek F-16s on Cyprus pose a major threat that would tie down an inordinate number of Turkish forces and contingents of S-300's would make a bad situation even worse for the Turks.

Crete is also a dagger at the heart of The Turkish military and Industry. In an Aegean region where they are also at great Geographical disadvantage that air base at Crete is like a air craft carrier poised at the heart of the Turkish economy.

As I said before the Turks have to win both ends of the Aegean in order to win the war. Thats why they are going to spend so much on the F-35, and why the Greeks will eventually be flying the EF. Keeping Crete operating means the Greeks will eventually win the war.

Cyprus is the Rook.
Crete is the Queen.

The winner takes the Aegean.

 

[Akinci-Raider]

This was exactly the kind of incident that was bound to happen. Thats how big a threat the Turks consider those F-16s at Crete and the advanced AAs now positioned there. Had the Greeks insisted on putting them on Cyprus it probably would have precipitated an all out war.

Why is this one may ask?

First off lets look at Cyprus. That Island , and the Greek forces on it, are akin to the same thing as opening a 2'nd front in time of war. That air base is a serious threat to several important Turkish air bases and naval ones.
Thus even a dozen Greek F-16s on Cyprus pose a major threat that would tie down an inordinate number of Turkish forces and contingents of S-300's would make a bad situation even worse for the Turks.

Crete is also a dagger at the heart of The Turkish military and Industry. In an Aegean region where they are also at great Geographical disadvantage that air base at Crete is like a air craft carrier poised at the heart of the Turkish economy.

As I said before the Turks have to win both ends of the Aegean in order to win the war. Thats why they are going to spend so much on the F-35, and why the Greeks will eventually be flying the EF. Keeping Crete operating means the Greeks will eventually win the war.

Cyprus is the Rook.
Crete is the Queen.

The winner takes the Aegean.

Ur not serius,right?

 

[RubiconNZ]

Ur not serius,right?

It's not much use asking a banned member a question, they can't reply.