China invests in EU rival to Pentagon's GPS

[The Watcher]

Go China, go china GOOOO CHINA! :china Lets end Pentagons hold on GPS!!!

Again this article i'm posting first on Defencetalk.com forums:

China invests in EU rival to Pentagon's GPS
By Judy Dempsey and Tobias Buck in Brussels
September 18 2003 21:09

China is to invest in Galileo, the European Union's rival to the Pentagon-controlled Global Positioning System, boosting Europe's hopes of competing with the US in navigation satellite technology.

The investment, which according to senior Commission officials could total more than €230m ($259m), could lead to closer defence co-operation between Beijing and Brussels - a prospect likely to alarm the Pentagon and the US defence industry.

The Pentagon is opposed to the EU developing its own independent satellite system, insisting GPS provides an adequate satellite umbrella and warning that Galileo would lead to duplication. At present, GPS's unrivalled position provides the US with a powerful military and civilian tool.

Loyola de Palacio, the EU transport commissioner in charge of the €3.25bn Galileo project, on Thursday hailed the deal, saying: "China will help Galileo to become the major world infrastructure for the growing market for location services."

The Chinese investment will provide Beijing with a more sophisticated satellite system, allowing it to upgrade its communications systems and provide greater accuracy for a broad range of civilian activities.

In the long run, China could decide to base some of its military hardware on Galileo's technology, which could lead to lucrative defence contracts for European companies. :smokingc: :eek

An EU diplomat, who has been involved in the development of Galileo, said: "The point is that if a country opts for Galileo, it will opt too for defence systems that are compatible with Galileo - a move that could be of great concern to US defence manufacturers."

Commission officials said China was mainly interested in investing in the top end of Galileo, the Public Regulated Service, which will be used by police and security services and is expected eventually to play a role in the EU's budding defence structures.

The Commission said China would not have access to the highly encrypted code for PRS - expected to become fully operational by 2008. Instead, said one official, the EU will see how the first investment "takes shape".

Commission officials said the deal with China could be followed by similar agreements

:!:

Source: FT.com

 

[ullu]

:china :smokingc:

I came across this tiny news about Russia and China going at it together:


China, Russia Set Direction in Future Space Exploration Cooperation

China and Russia has defined the direction in their future cooperation in space exploration and set down a new cooperation project in Beijing recently.

The agreement was reached at the fourth meeting of the astronavigation sub-committee with the Joint Commission for the Regular Meetings of Heads of Government of China and Russia. The meeting also reviewed the achievements made by the sub-committee with support from the two governments since the establishment of the committee.

The sub-committee's chairmen from China and Russia both attended the meeting. They are Luan Enjie, director general of the China National Space Administration, and Yuri N. Koptev, director general of the Russia National Aviation and Space Agency.

 

[Red aRRow]

It would be really stupid if China kept on relying on the U.S. GPS system....I mean what if U.S. and China go to war (I REALLY hope not!). Then the U.S. would simply black out the G.P.S coverage for anyone other than themselves. So I think it was the logical decision taken by Beijing. :china

 

[webmaster]

China is preparing for the worst. Its going to make sure everything works for its defense needs without having to rely on US infrastructure! They have 10-15 years to work at it...

 

[Frozen Hell]

Hayy another articel on the piece. I think US system is efficient enough to support the rest of world needs... we don't need to invest in more systems which are different!


Europe Helps China Setup Satellite Navigation Centre

The Galileo system will be built around 30 satellites of whichh 27 with be operational with three in reserve. They'll be stationed on three circular medium-Earth orbits at an altitude of 23 616 km and inclined at 56° to the equator.

Paris - Sep 19, 2003
Europe and China share a common interest in cooperating to bring the benefits of satellite navigation and Galileo in particular to transport, science, land management, disaster prevention and other user sectors. Sharing research results, encouraging education, joint projects and industrial contacts are important means towards such goals.
In this context, the European Commission, the European Space Agency and the Chinese Ministry of Science and Technology have decided to establish the "China-Europe Global Navigation Satellite System Technical Training and Cooperation Centre" (CENC) in China.

On the basis of bilateral discussions to date in the Europe-China Joint Technical Working Group, the decision has been taken to locate the centre at the renowned Beijing University.

The centre will be staffed initially by one or two experts supported by two administrative and technical assistants.

Mr F. Lamoureux, Director General for Energy and Transport at the European Commission, will inaugurate the centre together with Mr Shi Dinghuan, Secretary General of the Chinese Ministry of Science and Technology, at 11:00 on Friday 19 September in Beijing.

This will take place at the China-Europe Technical Training and Cooperation Centre, Room 323 ZhongGuanCun FangZheng Building, No 298, Chengfu Road, Haidian District (in front of the Beijing University East Gate).

The Galileo system will be built around 30 satellites (27 operational and three in reserve) stationed on three circular medium-Earth orbits at an altitude of 23 616 km and inclined at 56° to the equator.

This configuration will provide excellent coverage of the entire planet. Two Galileo centres will be set up in Europe to control satellite operations and manage the navigation system.

Developed by ESA and the European Union on the basis of 50-50 cofinancing, Galileo will be a complete civil system, due to be operational from 2008, offering users in Europe, and throughout the world as well, a precise, secure satellite positioning service.

 

[The Watcher]

Here is another article but a day older than the first one:

US is very nerveous with this system... I hope China takes full advantage of EU's system.
----------------------------------------

Deal close over satellite system
By Judy Dempsey
Published: September 17 2003 20:54 | Last Updated: September 17 2003 20:54

Earlier this month, top US diplomats sat down at Britain's Foreign Office with their European Commission counterparts for an unprecedented meeting - the first direct discussions over how Galileo, Europe's navigation satellite system, could affect US security interests.

The US believes Galileo will give the Europeans an advantage over the Pentagon-controlled Global Positioning System. As well as being a common navigation tool for sailors, drivers and emergency services, GPS has hitherto been an unrivalled military asset for the US.

EU officials say Galileo's more accurate technology will have enormous ramifications for Europe's security and defence institutions. The system of satellites, which should be fully operational by 2008, will provide the EU with some of the most advanced technology, enabling users to locate individual land mines, for example, or direct missiles more accurately.

More significantly for the US, Galileo could make Europe independent of the Pentagon's GPS satellite security umbrella.

David Braunschvig, a senior member of the US Council on Foreign Relations and managing director of Lazard investment bank, said: "I believe Galileo is a place holder for European defence and security.

"The Galileo challenge raises the question as to whether the US will continue to enjoy its current dominance in providing the global standard for positioning, timing and navigation. That is why the Pentagon is so nervous."

Galileo's origins, like many other EU projects, were haphazard. It took several years of haggling before the 15 member states reached agreement last March on sharing the costs.

Loyola de Palacio, EU transport commissioner, says the investment costs for Galileo will amount to €3.25bn. Unlike GPS, , users will pay for Galileo's premium service - the encrypted Public Regulated Service, or PRS.

The focus of US attention has been the frequency PRS will use. A Commission official said: "Since PRS will be used by the police and security services it has to be hyper-secure. The frequency is crucial for determining the degree of security and accuracy."

The EU received its PRS frequency three years ago from the International Telecommunication Union. The US was not pleased. It said the frequency was the same as it planned to use for the GPS's upgraded M- (or military) code - although the M-code is not expected until about 2012.

Paul Wolfowitz, deputy US defence secretary, wrote to EU defence ministers, claiming Nato's security interests could be undermined. Jacques Chirac, French president, told them to resist the pressure, saying Europe risked becoming a "vassal" of the US.

To allay US fears, technical experts from both sides have shown that even though PRS will "overlay" the planned GPS M-band, the two systems can work together.

The Pentagon, however, is not satisfied. In case of a terrorist threat or conflict, it wants the right to jam Galileo. It claims a country or movement hostile to the US may be able to break Galileo's codes. Because the bands overlay, it argues a weapons system guided by the M-code could be redirected to the US.

The EU has sought to reassure the US that Galileo would be secure and, in extreme cases, the modulations used to refine the frequencies could be changed, provided the US gave advance notice. One EU diplomat, said: "That is difficult for the US. It wants to retain its independence in all its security decisions rather than share its concerns."

Experts say jamming is risky. If the US blocked Galileo it could end up jamming GPS because of the overlay. The Pentagon could upgrade its system to avoid this, but given the announcement from President George W. Bush that he wanted $87bn emergency spending for operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, more funds for GPS seem unlikely.

EU and US diplomats say this means Washington has a choice. If it co-operates over Galileo, its own GPS system could benefit from the PRS's greater accuracy. If not, GPS and PRS could become uncompromising competitors.

Ralph Braibanti, chief US negotiator with the EU, recognises the dilemma and has suggested co-operation.

A senior EU diplomat said: "This is a change. Look at Airbus, the Ariane space rocket, the euro, enlargement: we deliver, eventually.

"It will be the same with Galileo. This is not about the Europeans competing as such with the US. It is about the Europeans establishing some degree of equality with the US so that we too can influence and set the international agenda."

:smokingc:

 

[Su_37]

Well , one thing everyone is forgetting about ,EU didn't provide the Encription Code of Galileo which EU country will use for militery purpose in the MOU signed with China , but the same encryption code will be provided to india for the use of militery purpose

 

[The Watcher]

So it begins:

First joint China-EU satellite to be launched Monday
The first ever joint Chinese-European space mission -- a satellite designed to study the earth's magnetic field -- will be launched Monday from a base in southern China, European space officials involved in the project said.

 

[gf0012-aust]

China invests in indigenous GPS solution (Beidou)

A report to the US Congress states that China is actively pursuing technologies that could be used to develop active antisatellite capabilities. These include lasers, space interceptors and jammers.

The congressional report cites significant research and development programs in lasers, kinetic energy weapons and RF weaponary.
Much of this research is similar to that ongoing in the United States and Russia, the U.S. defense official notes, describing the laser work as at "a reasonably well-funded research program level."

The official does not believe that China will employ "a weapon of massive space destruction" because China is becoming more dependent on space assets itself.

China is pursuing largely the same capabilities enjoyed by the United States, but at a regional level rather than a global one. The logic is that a vastly destructive space weapon would inflict considerable damage on China's own capabilities.

Chinas has its own embryonic satellite-based positioning system (called Beidou) using a pair of geosynchronous orbiters providing position and location data. This capability augments the U.S. global positioning system (GPS), which China also uses in its own systems.

Satellite navigation, be it GPS or Beidou, plays a significant role in an emerging generation of Tac ballistic missiles.

 

[Frozen Hell]

China can never rival US's GPS. When it does, we will have something way better and advanced. I think, china is still 10-20 years behind US when it comes to hitech systems like satellites and gps for military use.

 

[The Watcher]

Here is an update on this one. galileo will be launch with Russian help.

Russians to launch first two of EU's Galileo GPS satellites
PARIS: The Soviet-era workhorse of space, the Soyuz, has been chosen to launch the first two Galileo satellites, the European Union's answer to the US Global Positioning System (GPS), Arianespace announced on Wednesday.

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/defence_tech.shtml

 

[Red aRRow]

China can never rival US's GPS. When it does, we will have something way better and advanced. I think, china is still 10-20 years behind US when it comes to hitech systems like satellites and gps for military use.

Frozen come on dude stop being arrogant. :roll :roll
China and E.U want a rival to the G.P.S system because of the uncertainty in today's world. They don't want to be on the wrong side of the U.S with their G.P.S dependent devices completely disabled, so they are investing in such a system which will give them some self reliance.

 

[darklegent]

I remember reading months ago that the Iraqis had successively used a GPS jamming device in the 2nd Gulf war. It was of Russian origin. I do not have the url now but my point is that if the positioning signal is being transmitted it can also be jammed.
What use is military technolgy that enemies have access to.
(ENEMIES not directed/refered to anybody in particular).

 

[The Watcher]

Yeah i read about those jamming devices but i think it was only temporary. does anyone know what was it? :?

 

[The Watcher]

and now morocco may also join!
-----------------------------------

Galileo: the Commission Proposes Opening Negotiations with Morocco

BRUSSELS --- The European Commission today proposed negotiating directives to the Council on the conclusion of a cooperation agreement with Morocco on the development of Galileo, a civil satellite navigation system.

The Commission will start discussions with Morocco as soon as the Council has approved the negotiating directives. “The prospect of a new Galileo cooperation agreement, this time with Morocco, highlights the success of this European programme. Such an agreement will enable Galileo to become established in the western Mediterranean and West Africa", said Jacques Barrot, Vice-President with responsibility for Transport.

On 13 October, following several preparatory meetings with the Commission, Morocco formally announced its interest in opening negotiations and the prospect of an agreement on its participation in Galileo. This will involve industrial and scientific cooperation, particularly regarding standardisation issues, monitoring regional integrity and developing specific applications for Morocco and its geographic environment (the western Mediterranean and West Africa).

International cooperation in the Galileo Programme is expanding rapidly. Agreements have already been signed with China and Israel and discussions are underway with India, Russia, Ukraine, Brazil, South Korea, Mexico and Australia. Furthermore, the agreement between the European Union and the United States which was signed on 26 June confirmed the total interoperability between Galileo and GPS. This will considerably boost the world market for satellite radio-navigation, which involves some 3 billion receivers and is likely to be worth about EUR 250 billion from 2010. The Commission expects over 150 000 highly qualified jobs to be created in Europe.


BACKGROUND

Galileo is Europe’s satellite radio-navigation programme. It was launched at the initiative of the Commission and the European Space Agency and is a technical revolution similar to that of mobile phones. It is also behind the development of a new generation of universal services in areas such as transport, telecommunications, agriculture and fisheries. At the moment, this technology, which has proved highly profitable, is only available through the United States’ GPS or Russia’s Glonass system, which were primarily developed and funded for military purposes.

The Galileo programme will be administered and controlled by civilian authorities and will offer a guarantee of quality and service continuity. It will be complementary with current systems and will increase the reliability and availability of navigation and positioning services worldwide.

(Source: European Commission; issued Dec. 7, 2004)

 

[gf0012-aust]

I remember reading months ago that the Iraqis had successively used a GPS jamming device in the 2nd Gulf war. It was of Russian origin. I do not have the url now but my point is that if the positioning signal is being transmitted it can also be jammed.
What use is military technolgy that enemies have access to.
(ENEMIES not directed/refered to anybody in particular).

No, they are of limited use. The area of effect is minimal, and there are technical work arounds. I do have papers from various conferences on how they can be managed, but they are not for public release.

Suffice to say that they are not an obstructant to a properly managed TOps.

 

[omegasigma]

India is investing in two projects for location services:

1. Galileo (http://athens-olympics-2004.newkerala.com/?action=fullnews&id=41479) India has pledged to invest 300 million Euros in this project. It has also signed an MOU to provide launch services for this project.
2. Glonass (http://www.spacedaily.com/news/india-04s.html) This Russian system is almost ready with 11 satellites already launched.

This investment will provide India with access to two systems other than GPS. Each system has it's strengths and weakness. The Glonass system is especially optimized for missile navigation systems.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

India is investing in two projects for location services:

1. Galileo (http://athens-olympics-2004.newkerala.com/?action=fullnews&id=41479) India has pledged to invest 300 million Euros in this project. It has also signed an MOU to provide launch services for this project.
2. Glonass (http://www.spacedaily.com/news/india-04s.html) This Russian system is almost ready with 11 satellites already launched.

This investment will provide India with access to two systems other than GPS. Each system has it's strengths and weakness. The Glonass system is especially optimized for missile navigation systems.

Please read the topic title. DO NOT bring India into the discussion when the topic is about China's involvement in Galileo system. Next time the irrelavent reply will be deleted.

 

[lamdacore]

I remember reading months ago that the Iraqis had successively used a GPS jamming device in the 2nd Gulf war. It was of Russian origin. I do not have the url now but my point is that if the positioning signal is being transmitted it can also be jammed.
What use is military technolgy that enemies have access to.
(ENEMIES not directed/refered to anybody in particular).

i remember about them being used in iraq as well. I agree with gf about their effect i.e. the effect is over a small area. however, i read in a newspaper that they were of russian origin and were responsible for misguiding several cruise missiles that hit syria and iran. apparently, these systems are known to be destroyed. Yet, misguiding a cruise missile from baghdad to syria or iran is a big deviation. it was pretty effective in the beginning but the came ended soon

 

[omegasigma]

India is investing in two projects for location services:

1. Galileo (http://athens-olympics-2004.newkerala.com/?action=fullnews&id=41479) India has pledged to invest 300 million Euros in this project. It has also signed an MOU to provide launch services for this project.
2. Glonass (http://www.spacedaily.com/news/india-04s.html) This Russian system is almost ready with 11 satellites already launched.

This investment will provide India with access to two systems other than GPS. Each system has it's strengths and weakness. The Glonass system is especially optimized for missile navigation systems.

Please read the topic title. DO NOT bring India into the discussion when the topic is about China's involvement in Galileo system. Next time the irrelavent reply will be deleted.

Please note that I was mentioning this so that there can be a discussion about other parallel efforts and comparisons.

I apologize to you if that was a mistake. Thank you.