Arrow 2 (Vs) Patriot

XEROX

New Member
The Arrow 2 system can detect and track incoming missiles as far way as 500 km and can intercept missiles 50-90 km away [some sources suggest the engagement range is 16 to 48km]. The Arrow 2 uses a terminally-guided interceptor warhead to destroy an incoming missile from its launch at an altitude of 10 to 40km at nine times the speed of sound. Since the missile does not need to directly hit the target--detonation within 40-50 meters is sufficient to disable an incoming warhead. The command and control system is designed to respond to as many as 14 simultaneous intercepts



Arrow 2 working in conjunction with the Green Pine radar
The Green Pine radar's strategic value along the Indian-Pakistani border is reportedly inestimable. "It covers all of Pakistan's military command centers and bases between Islamabad, the capital, and the Indian frontier. The system reportedly provides India with surveillance of Pakistan's nuclear centers and missile sites


Patriot is a long-range, all-altitude, all-weather air defence system to counter tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and advanced aircraft. Patriot (MIM-104) is produced by Raytheon in Massachusetts and Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control in Florida, Patriot missile systems were deployed by US forces during Operation Iraqi Freedom. The systems were stationed in Kuwait and successfully destroyed a number of hostile surface-to-surface missiles using the new PAC-3 and guidance enhanced missiles



The Patriot missile (PAC-3) is equipped with a track-via-missile (TVM) guidance system. Midcourse correction commands are transmitted to the guidance system from the mobile Engagement Control Centre. The target acquisition system in the missile acquires the target in the terminal phase of flight and transmits the data using the TVM downlink via the ground radar to the Engagement Control Station for final course correction calculations. The course correction commands are transmitted to the missile via the Missile Track Command Uplink. The high explosive 90kg warhead is situated behind the terminal guidance section.

The range of the missile is 70km and maximum altitude is greater than 24km. The minimum flight time is the time to arm the missile, which is less than 9s, and the maximum flight time is less than 3½mins

In an effort to speed up development of indigenous anti-missile system, India has asked the United States for "technical information" on its operational Patriot anti-missile system and also sought Washington`s nod for involvement in the Israeli-US upgraded Arrow missile system

The later may now sound outdated as the arrow was tested by the U.S and Israel in California yesterday, still who knows???

Which defense system would be more suited for the Indian Force?????
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Arrow 2 by a golden mile. The Israelis actually have greater real time experience in testing systems like this - and remember that they are the ones who pulled the patriot code out of the crapper and made it more workable.

They have a "gift" at improving core products.
 

XEROX

New Member
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So what are the chances of India aquiring the Arrow 2 system, India wants to buy it from Israel, Israel wants to sell it to India

But the U.S are not so keen on the idea
 

XEROX

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The Arrow 2 missile approaches the target at a maximum speed of Mach 9, or 2.5km/s, to a maximum altitude of 50,000km :cop
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
PJ-10 BrahMos said:
The Arrow 2 missile approaches the target at a maximum speed of Mach 9, or 2.5km/s, to a maximum altitude of 50,000km :cop
There's a typo in this. 50,000km would make it a moon shot. ;)
 

adsH

New Member
gf0012-aust said:
There's a typo in this. 50,000km would make it a moon shot. ;)
GF wouldn't the claimed mach 9 make the Platform faster then the NASA's hyperSonic Jet
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The radar has an effective scanning range of 500km. I think you'll find it's 50km for the max intercept range.

It wouldn't surprise me if it's doing mach 9, probably a max of 3000m per second (if it was going to be synchronised with Green Pines capability).

PJ-10, I've just checked your links, you've mistyped the data. It's 10-90km, not 50,000km

(hence my above comments)


The Arrow 2 system can detect and track incoming missiles as far way as 500 km and can intercept missiles 50-90 km away [some sources suggest the engagement range is 16 to 48km]. The Arrow 2 uses a terminally-guided interceptor warhead to destroy an incoming missile from its launch at an altitude of 10 to 40km at nine times the speed of sound. Since the missile does not need to directly hit the target--detonation within 40-50 meters is sufficient to disable an incoming warhead. The command and control system is designed to respond to as many as 14 simultaneous intercepts.
and from Army Technology:

The intercept altitudes are from a minimum of 10km up to a maximum of 50km. The maximum intercept range is approx. 90km.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/arrow2/index.html
 

srirangan

Banned Member
India has already acquired the Green Pine radars and the Arrow 2 negotiations are definitely on. Now if we had sent troops to Iraq, we'ld already have the Arrow-2's ready on the Pak and Chinese borders. We'll get them soon though, I'm confident.
 

XEROX

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India has its heart set on the Arrow-2 system, forget the Patriot and Russian S-300V

btw, sri i dont think the Arrow-2 is ready yet , i thought it was going through some tests againts "captured iraqi scuds" in California
 

adsH

New Member
I think Pak has its own development underway an indigenous C4i based systems they have a SAM system underdevelopment but i doubt any Missile defense system is currently being developed. Ukraine is helping out the Pakistanis. the New TPS 77 Radars systems being given to Pakistan would help Pakistan develop further the abilities of pakistan Air defense. i think the Arrow 2 system is still very young it would take a long time to develop it enough to take onn a modern $300 mill Pakistani Ballistic missile and its far away from stopping anything the Chinese have deployed against india.

If india is succefull in getting the Arrow 2 then they would have to develop it further with the Israelis, which is probably the idea. i think India does not want the Patriots because the US cannot garrentee that it would not provide the same system to Pakistan.
 

srirangan

Banned Member
Nah .. Patriots will be rejected cause the Arrow 2's are better. US won't provide the Patriots to Pak anyway.
 

adsH

New Member
srirangan said:
US won't provide the Patriots to Pak anyway.
They are providing alot of new radars and support on research on the C4i and radar tech for the army, they are going to provide Upgrades for the F-16 MLU's its just a matter of time.


American SAM 3 are way better when it comes to Ballistic missiles but they come under a different category. if i was a buyer and had access to Arrow and Patriot i would definitely go for the Patriot simply because it has had alot more Testing time. its has been reality tested during the The two gulf wars. and it has evolved alot more. the arow has drawn alot of systems from the Patriots since the Israels were the people that helped fix the Patriot missile system. But still i would go form something that has been tested and continues to be tested and Improved.
 

srirangan

Banned Member
But along with lots of years of testing comes the risk of becoming obsolute. This is the case and Patriot is outperformed by the Arrow-2.

About US providing Patriots to Pak, who are we to say? Let's wait and watch.
 

Oqaab

New Member
Pakistan negotiated for Patriot Missiles, C-130s, P-3 Orions and F-16 in the last Musharraf's visit to US. I think sale of Predetor UAV was also discussed.

C-130s and P-3C were approved (choppers too).

Comming back to the topic.

Aero 2 ABM is more capable. Its speed is mach 9 compared to mach 5 of PAC-3 (Patriot). Maximum altitude is 50 km and that of Patriot is 24 km. Patriot's range is 70 km and Aero 2's range is 90 km.
 

adsH

New Member
by aero 2 you mean arrow 2 rite Qqaab

Nice piece of information.

Sri the patriots have regularly been updated, just ask GF he would know of the details, i have to admit its more primitive to the arrow 2 but it has been tested alot more. the Israeli's seem to be the best option for INdia since Israel would pay special attention to indias needs as it (israel) would see india as a special customer.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
adsH said:
by aero 2 you mean arrow 2 rite Qqaab

Nice piece of information.

Sri the patriots have regularly been updated, just ask GF he would know of the details, i have to admit its more primitive to the arrow 2 but it has been tested alot more. the Israeli's seem to be the best option for INdia since Israel would pay special attention to indias needs as it (israel) would see india as a special customer.
Actually, my preference would be for the Arrow 2. IMHO it's a far more capable system, and has gone through extensive and rigorous testing.

Couple it with Green Pine and you have a very very potent capability.
Probably the only real contender against it is an S400.
 
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