What rank does the PAF stand at now?

[P.A.F]

in my point of view i think that the pakistani airforce is ranked amongst the top 10 airforces around the world. however they can lose there position very easily by retiring there f-16's and mirage's which they are going to do very soon.
What do you think aboutthe PAF and what do you rank them?

 

[gf0012-aust]

in my point of view i think that the pakistani airforce is ranked amongst the top 10 airforces around the world. however they can lose there position very easily by retiring there f-16's and mirage's which they are going to do very soon.
What do you think aboutthe PAF and what do you rank them?

To do the thread some justice it would pay for you to:

- list your top 10.
- give reasons for your rankings
- establish some clear guidelines for other posters to understand when they respond.

If you don't, this will degenerate fairly quickly into a "mine is better than yours thread", and that unforunately might lead to it's early demise.

 

[P.A.F]

1.USA-Just the best
2.China-Quantity and man power
3.France-Quality and europe's strongest defence
4.Israel-Quality and quantity
5.Russia-Quantity
6.India-Quantity and NOW quality as well
7.Pakistan-Quality and man power
8.Egypt-USA fling their planes
9.Canada-good
10.UK-good

 

[gf0012-aust]

8.Egypt-USA fling their planes

why do you think that the US flies their planes? there is no way that the egyptians would allow that, they might train some of them, but they certainly wouldn't be allowed to fly their planes.

btw, my list would be different, but I'm curious to see what some of the regular posters will put up.

good effort though.

 

[P.A.F]

well i was in pakistan last year and i saw the legendary pakistani pilot. you may have heard of him. he's the one who shot down 6 indian migs with his f-6 farmer which is now displayed in lahore. anyway he told me that the back bone of the egyptian airforce are the f-16 which are all flown by the american's. he knows this because pakistan were about to send it's pilots to egypt but the americans found out and they moved in by force. they just didn't want the pakistani's to train on those f-16's
hope that answer's you question.

 

[gf0012-aust]

well i was in pakistan last year and i saw the legendary pakistani pilot. you may have heard of him. he's the one who shot down 6 indian migs with his f-6 farmer which is now displayed in lahore. anyway he told me that the back bone of the egyptian airforce are the f-16 which are all flown by the american's. he knows this because pakistan were about to send it's pilots to egypt but the americans found out and they moved in by force. they just didn't want the pakistani's to train on those f-16's
hope that answer's you question.

Thats interesting as I have dealt with some Egyptian and Kuwaiti pilots - and certainly they are of the opinion that the US trains and sometimes backseats (for training), but definitely not permanent flyers.

I've had to deal with military attaches from a few countries in the Middle East, and they sure don't support a view of having US "assets" fixed to their equipment.

I know of the Pakistani Air Ace who flew a Sabre, what is the name of the pilot of the F-6? I might know of someone who knows him

 

[umair]

Ok talking bout training then my top 3 list
1)USAF (230-40 flight hrs/pilot annually)
2)PAF (215 flight hrs/pilot annually)
3)IDF/AF (180 flight hrs /pilot annually)

Given a level playing field in terms of tech and these 3 can give eachother a very bloody nose.
The techlevel is what is hampering PAF's overall ranking.Our pilots are among the world's best pity they don't get the tech they deserve to drive.
P.S in Sep-Oct 2003 an informal exercise was held between PAF and US Marine Corp/Navy pilots.
Scores:
BVR: Total engagements 7, PAF:3, Navy/Marines:4
WVR: Total engagements 10,PAF:8, Navy/Marines:2
Planes used:F/A-18Cs by Marines/Navy, Mirage ROSEIIs by PAF
Location CCS Sargodha AFB
Gary u can confirm this from u'r contacts.

 

[umair]

I know of the Pakistani Air Ace who flew a Sabre, what is the name of the pilot of the F-6? I might know of someone who knows him

Gary! PAF got his planes wrong .
It's the Sabre pilot Wng Cmdr M.M Alam.The Farmer had 8 kills in PAF service.One of em by the late ACM Mushaf Ali Mir, who's first death anniversary is today 20 Feb.He was the base commander when my uncle was posted at Sargodha.

 

[big_evil]

Yeah man! I hafta agree with u..only thing keeping PAF back is the jets that they have... they are just not getting good enough stuff to fly and thatz all cuz of political reasons... I mean...their qualitative training is going to waste this way as obviously with all the advanced training in the world when u dont have the right stuff to fly u really feel bad n moral also goes down.... look at India n Israel.... just cuz their politically ok with the US........ they're piling up advanced jets.... the Israeli airforce has just signed a contract to get 100 F-16i jets.... man! we'd be lucky to get 50 old ones!

 

[saraab]

incredible stats if they are true

 

[gf0012-aust]

Ok talking bout training then my top 3 list
1)USAF (230-40 flight hrs/pilot annually)
2)PAF (215 flight hrs/pilot annually)
3)IDF/AF (180 flight hrs /pilot annually)

Given a level playing field in terms of tech and these 3 can give eachother a very bloody nose.
The techlevel is what is hampering PAF's overall ranking.Our pilots are among the world's best pity they don't get the tech they deserve to drive.
P.S in Sep-Oct 2003 an informal exercise was held between PAF and US Marine Corp/Navy pilots.
Scores:
BVR: Total engagements 7, PAF:3, Navy/Marines:4
WVR: Total engagements 10,PAF:8, Navy/Marines:2
Planes used:F/A-18Cs by Marines/Navy, Mirage ROSEIIs by PAF
Location CCS Sargodha AFB
Gary u can confirm this from u'r contacts.

It's a pity CENTO doesn't exist anymore, it would have been good to see more interactive training between the member states.

IMHO Mirages would be better knife fighters than Hornets at lower altitudes, and they are faster off the deck than a Hornet. One of the things that RAAF pilots missed about transitting from Mirages to the Hornet was the formers absolute advantage off the deck, they were like a winged rocket.
(same as the F1-11's, the ultimate high speed slugger).

Is Sargodha AFB also called Mushaf?

 

[big_evil]

I remember reading somewhere about PAF's standards and this American General after the Gulf War said this about Iraqi Airforce... "thank God that their major training came from the Russians and French......and only a few of them actually got the opportunity to learn from the PAF otherwise things would've been different and the iraqis wud've given us a much more hard time n problems if they had been trained more by the PAF..." not his exact words...but oh well..just tryin to get the msg across!

 

[gf0012-aust]

I know of the Pakistani Air Ace who flew a Sabre, what is the name of the pilot of the F-6? I might know of someone who knows him

Gary! PAF got his planes wrong .
It's the Sabre pilot Wng Cmdr M.M Alam.The Farmer had 8 kills in PAF service.One of em by the late ACM Mushaf Ali Mir, who's first death anniversary is today 20 Feb.He was the base commander when my uncle was posted at Sargodha.

Thanks Umair, I thought that was the case, but didn't want to step forward until one of you had confirmed things first.

 

[Revival_786]

Well, the PAF will soon be getting JF-17's, J-10's and possibly others... the pilots will have plenty to play with soon enough

 

[Panzer]

My List


1.USA(no question about it)
2.Israel(Lacking numbers but training and technology favour them)
3.Russia(Numbers although quality decreasing in recent times)
4.France(Quality and number of good air crafts)
5.China(Massive numbers, quality not good although improving rapidly)
6.UK(Quite a few aircrafts though the reason for high ranking is simply because they have AWACS.)
7.India(Decent number of fighters and improving quantity and quality radidly like China.
8.??
9.??
10.??

Still thinking about 8,9 and 10

 

[big_evil]

wow man! surprising to see that ur list doesn't include PAF when its training is internationally respected and is regarded along the same lines as the US Airforce and Israeli Airforce... :smokingc: and wow again! for UK being 6th on ur list just because they have AWACS....if I'm not wrong....Saudi Arabia has 2 or 3 AWACS.... how abt putting Saudi Arabia in the top 5 then? hahahahaha

 

[Panzer]

for UK being 6th on ur list just because they have AWACS....if I'm not wrong....Saudi Arabia has 2 or 3 AWACS.... how abt putting Saudi Arabia in the top 5 then?

Let me clarify UK is 6th because they have AWACS along with more aircrafts, quality and decent training.Just saying they would have been below India if they didnot have AWACS.

As far a Saudi Arabia, they might have AWACS but not anywhere near as many aircrafts or level of training.

wow man! surprising to see that ur list doesn't include PAF when its training is internationally respected and is regarded along the same lines as the US Airforce and Israeli Airforce

They are in the list just below UK/India but i am yet to deciede the position.

 

[The Watcher]

Heres my list,

USA (need I say more?)
Russia (they are the only ones with 4th and 5th gen planes in service, right?)
Israel (only reason easy access to technology thats available to USAF)
France
UK
India and Pak (Pak lacks latest jets but has a lota talent as far as pilot training, etc. India has jets but lacks pilot quality. If you are offended by the comment, look at the history. truth is out there.)
I really don't care who is after pak/india.

 

[Panzer]

really don't care who is after pak/india

China???

 

[The Watcher]

really don't care who is after pak/india

China???

:lol holys! I can't believe I forgot china.

china goes after Russia (quality/quantity/manpower).

:china ak