marxist_command
New Member
Hey guys, I don't know did I put this thread on right pages but I'm curious about Iranian's SHAHAB-6. I hear it can reach England...
Is it true?
Is it true?
Iranian Missiles
- Thread starter marxist_command
- Start date
Iran tests submarine-to-surface missile
Iran tets a new sub launched missile.
iran's sublaunched missile
Iran tets a new sub launched missile.
iran's sublaunched missile
A worrying development?
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Worrisome? Absolutely! Iran has something like 3 Kilo class SSK operating in the Persian Gulf and/or Arabian Sea. Also the Straits of Hormuz form a natural chokepoint into the the Gulf being only 21 miles wide at the narrowest point. Given the recents tests of Iranian designed/built equipment, but the history of the Iran-Iraq war, Iran could conceivably hamper, if not halt completely, shipping into & out of the Persian Gulf. With something like 40% of the worlds petroleum found there, that could get unpleasant... For everyone.kams said:
Well I hope afterwards they feel it was all worth it. Because they would pay a terrible price for doing so and such a move would prompt the Gulf states to allow stageing rights to an American led coalition. Such a strike package would set the Iranians back about four centuries.kams said:Well they don't need missiles to block Strait of Hrmuz, even Artillar can do it.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
To be honest, I don't think Iranian missles are the real concern for blocking the Straits of Hormuz. During the Iran-Iraq War of the 80's, Iran was deploying mines from speedboats. That has the potential of being more effective since it would take MCM to make sure the shipping lanes were clear. Also, artillery fire or missle launches can be tracked where as a mine is already in place. This could potentially make retaliation against Iran more difficult, as long as Iran wasn't caught laying mines.
contedicavour
New Member
In a crowded place like the Persian Gulf, with hundreds of tankers sailing up and down from the terminals to Hormuz and beyond, a sub-launched missile could probably only be used as a terrorist weapon to generate panic by disrupting civilian shipping...
USN and allied FFG/DDGs are designed to handle incoming missiles and to track enemy SSKs, especially easy in the shallow Gulf waters. Iran knows this and most probably would not risk having its Kilos destroyed by attacking allied military ships.
cheers
USN and allied FFG/DDGs are designed to handle incoming missiles and to track enemy SSKs, especially easy in the shallow Gulf waters. Iran knows this and most probably would not risk having its Kilos destroyed by attacking allied military ships.
cheers
DragonKing786
New Member
kams said:
And American weapons their ain't worry some plz...be more realistic .. Iran see's them as threats also, if US is worried don't go their it's that simple pump ur own oil
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Because every gun and every bullet in the world is bought to defend against the US.DragonKing786 said:And American weapons their ain't worry some plz...be more realistic .. Iran see's them as threats also, if US is worried don't go their it's that simple pump ur own oil
DoC_FouALieR
New Member
Easy in those shallow but warm waters? I don't think so... With all the trafic in the gulf and poor sound propagation for active sonars, it is pretty hard to find an SSK lurking around with surface ships.
The most important threat for a sub remains a sub.
But the task of a Irani Kilo (targeting USN ships) is still hard, for the same reasons, the traffic make the detection and classification harder and a weapon can easily target a civilian vessel.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Aren't SSK's vulnerable to spotting from the air in shallow waters?DoC_FouALieR said:
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
I think subs usually are vulnerable to detection in shallow water. Having said that, from what I remember the Persian Gulf has some funny acoustic properties so it sort of cancels out...Grand Danois said:
And I believe it is the properties of deep water, namely the thermocline where water temp changes rapidly in a short space that is the main advantage. With the change in temp the acoustics change, much like if you try and pass sound through two different barriers. I could be wrong though.
-cheers
Grand Danois
Entertainer
In the case of similar confined seas, but in non arid climate regions ie the Baltic Sea, you also have a halocline, as fresh water flows out through the Straits of Denmark on top of the denser saline sea water. Though, most of the time the spring layer of the halocline is superpositioned with the thermocline spring layer, enhancing the barrier.Todjaeger said:
I was thinking of visual spotting from aircraft...
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Hmm... That I don't know, what is the clarity of the water? In the Caribbean, the water is virtually clear, to the point where depth perception is deceptive, not sure how the Gulf compares to that.Grand Danois said:
What might be possible is detection of the wake from a sub close to the surface, though I'm not sure if a satellite is needed for that or not. Also, again given the sea traffic in the area, there might be too many wakes from other vessels.
-cheers
Grand Danois
Entertainer
I think I read somewhere that subs could be seen from the air on depth of around a 100 meters and that the colour had influence on this...Todjaeger said:
Good idea with the wake detection! IIRC shipbased radars can pick up wakes from ships, but they are filtered out...
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Regarding visual detection of a sub from the air, it all depends on what's in the water. I doubt a sub on the bottom of the shipping channel in NY Harbour would be able to be seen, unless the periscope or conning tower is above the surface. Then again, that's NY Harbour where all sorts of strange things are in the water... Does anyone know how far light will penetrate in the Persian Gulf?Grand Danois said:
As for the wake, I believe most surface ships leave a 13 degree wake, while surfaced or near-surface subs have a smaller one, not sure how well a surface radar would be able to spot that though.:unknown
I'll take a look to see if someone else already opened a thread on sub detection, if not I'll start one.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
I'm going to expand a bit re the Baltic Sea.
The Baltic sea is not a freshwater basin. Here is a brief description of what goes on.
Freshwater from Russian, Baltic, Polish, German, Swedish rivers enters the sea, but that does not make it a big freshwater lake. At the Straits of Denmark dense saline water runs into the Baltic Sea at the bottom of the water column from the more saline North Sea, whilst the 'fresh' water exits the Baltic Sea on top of the water column.
So in the Straits there is an ingoing current at the bottom and an outgoing on the top.
As the saline "river" at the bottom progresses deep into the Baltic sea it slowly gets mixed with the "fresh" water part of the water column. So the Baltic Sea, so salinity increases from the point furthest away from the Straits and to the Straits.
Thus it is not a fresh water sea. Around Denmark you would have a salinity of 2.5-3.0% for the saline bottom layer and 1.9-2.0% salinity for the "fresh" top layer. Both figures go progressively down as you go further into the Baltic Sea.
The Baltic sea is not a freshwater basin. Here is a brief description of what goes on.
Freshwater from Russian, Baltic, Polish, German, Swedish rivers enters the sea, but that does not make it a big freshwater lake. At the Straits of Denmark dense saline water runs into the Baltic Sea at the bottom of the water column from the more saline North Sea, whilst the 'fresh' water exits the Baltic Sea on top of the water column.
So in the Straits there is an ingoing current at the bottom and an outgoing on the top.
As the saline "river" at the bottom progresses deep into the Baltic sea it slowly gets mixed with the "fresh" water part of the water column. So the Baltic Sea, so salinity increases from the point furthest away from the Straits and to the Straits.
Thus it is not a fresh water sea. Around Denmark you would have a salinity of 2.5-3.0% for the saline bottom layer and 1.9-2.0% salinity for the "fresh" top layer. Both figures go progressively down as you go further into the Baltic Sea.