Shoulder Launched Anti-tank How effective?

[Spetsznaz]

Modern Anti-tank rockets such as the RPG-22 and RPG-29, AT4

How effective are they?

When I image an Abrams tank, and a shoulder launched weapon I can't really understand? how there can be any serious damage.

In a modern battlefield can lets say one RPG-29 round at least destroy the tank treads?

I pretty new to the whole anti-tank thing, but where is it best to launch an Anti-tank rocket into to the tank, and how much of a threat do these weapons pose?

Mod edit: Please pay attention to spelling and grammar, it makes it easier to read and understand ones posts. This one has been cleaned up a bit, but there are still some areas which could use further clarification. I added a word with a ? which I felt was missing, but perhaps something else was meant.
-Preceptor

 

[Feanor]

It depends on the weapon, the tank, where the projectile hits, etc. Hezbollah was pretty impressive with theirs in 2006.

 

[T.C.P]

Modern Anti-tank rockets such as the RPG-22 and RPG-29, AT4

How effective are they?

When I image an Abrams tank, and a shoulder launched weapon I can't really understand? how there can be any serious damage.

In a modern battlefield can lets say one RPG-29 round at least destroy the tank treads?

I pretty new to the whole anti-tank thing, but where is it best to launch an Anti-tank rocket into to the tank, and how much of a threat do these weapons pose?

Mod edit: Please pay attention to spelling and grammar, it makes it easier to read and understand ones posts. This one has been cleaned up a bit, but there are still some areas which could use further clarification. I added a word with a ? which I felt was missing, but perhaps something else was meant.
-Preceptor

The shoulder launcjed ATGMs acn be very powerful despite their tiny size. In tests conducted by the Russian army the RPG-29 managed to penetrate the frontal armour of T-90s and T-80s even though the tanks reportedly had reactve armour on.

 

[STURM]

Spetsnaz, in the hands of well trained and motivated anti-tank teams who know the terrain, any shoulder fired weapons can pose damage to an MBT. As Feanor pointed out, it depends on a number of factors. On the other hand, if MBTs are accompanied by dismounted infantry, things can be a bit different. Terrain also plays a big part.

I think one the main lessons learnt from the Hezbollah 2006 experience is that you need lots and lots of reloads . If I'm not mistaken very few IDF MBTs were actually knocked out, with most suffering damage. Spetsnaz, there's a Les Grau article online about how the Chechians formed anti-tank teams consisting of 2-3 RPGs, a sniper rifle and an LMG, look it up. To maximise damage, the Chechians hit each target with 2-3 RPGs silmultaneously. In another article, Les Grau talks about how rebels in Tajikistan would detonate the ERAs with RPGs, followed by a 2nd volley.

Does any know if the themoboric RPG-7 round has ever been used?

 

[Saiga]

You should also consider that for example a RPG28 is more powerful then the mentioned RPG29.
Also some sources prove that the RPG29 cause some delicate damage to some M1 in Iraq.
Some Numbers:
Rpg29 750mm RHA
Rpg28 1000mm RHA

 

[Feanor]

Hello Saiga, and welcome to defencetalk. I was wondering if you had the sources where you got those numbers from?

 

[Saiga]

Thank you for the inviting!

IMHO a creditable source.
Modern Firearms - RPG-29 antitank grenade launcher
But the estimate of the RPG29 is a little bit different.

 

[Feanor]

Interesting. Thanks for the link.

 

[STURM]

From the link provided by Saiga, the RPG-29 appears to have the same penetrating performance as the Panzerfaust [which probably costs 2-3 times more, partly due to its sight!]. Externally the RPG-29 looks a bit like the Folgore.

Anyone has any figures about the penetrating performance on the Apilas and LAW-80?
Despite the introduction of the RPG-29, RPG-28, RPG-18 and others which have better penetrating performance than the RPG-7 why does the RPG-7 continue to be widely used in the Russian army?
Also has anyone seen photos of RPG-16s in Afghanistan?
Are themobaric rounds like the Shmel and Shmel M effective for anti-work? Thank you.

 

[Saiga]

What exactly Panzerfaust ?
Due to the fact that the newest Panzerfaust got a penetration about 900mm
and the RPG29 like stated about 600mm.
As far as i know with newer missiles about 750mm.

Well the RPG7 is only a "platform" for the missile.
There are also missiles with a penetrating power of 700mm like the tandem Heat PG-7VR.
Probably they are as powerful as the RPG29 and can easily penetrate side or rear armor of a tank.

@Feanor
You are welcome

 

[Feanor]

Saiga hit the nail on the head. New RPG-7V2, etc. typically offer performance comparable to modern RPGs. The main reason they're still in service as the launch platform is that there are large numbers of them in stock, and it's easier to update the munitions then to replace the whole launcher.

 

[Spetsznaz]

A lot of people seem to think that the RPG-7 is a little outdated, the fact is the system it works on is pretty old but there are constantly new Warheads being developed, like Pakistan just made a warhead for the RPG-7 that pull of steel pellets surrounding the main charge, and is meant to damage light infantry vehicles and personal

Edit: Opps sorry i see the RPG-7 idea has already been addressed

 

[AfghanAmbush]

RPG 29 vs Abrams.

Alright guys this is my second post, join about an hour ago. I saw a thread about anti-tank weapons like the AT-4, RPG family specially the RPG - 29. So here it is guys, i'm going to post a lot of interesting videos, if want like some that your interested in please request it and ill tell you if I have the link or not. I'm not here to spread propaganda but to inform and be informed. Again, if you want more videos of the RPG 29 or anything else in action, ask.

- RPG 29 vs Abrams
- Group (Hezbullah in Iraq) - Irani backed insurgent group that are experts with EFP IED's.

LiveLeak.com - RPG-29 vs M1A2 (Notice: 0:12 the other M1 is staring directly at them)

Mod Edit: Merged from a separate thread to keep the material in one place.

 

[Armyguy]

Ap

Modern Anti-tank rockets such as the RPG-22 and RPG-29, AT4

How effective are they?

When I image an Abrams tank, and a shoulder launched weapon I can't really understand? how there can be any serious damage.

In a modern battlefield can lets say one RPG-29 round at least destroy the tank treads?

I pretty new to the whole anti-tank thing, but where is it best to launch an Anti-tank rocket into to the tank, and how much of a threat do these weapons pose?

Mod edit: Please pay attention to spelling and grammar, it makes it easier to read and understand ones posts. This one has been cleaned up a bit, but there are still some areas which could use further clarification. I added a word with a ? which I felt was missing, but perhaps something else was meant.
-Preceptor

the thing to think about is this, how long have we used modern shoulder launched anti-tanks weapons?
Seems to me it's been at least a good 70 years, maybe more I'm not sure. but we haven't stopped using them so of course they're effective. they have war-heads in the rocket that perform an action similar to an EFP. it will penetrate the outside armor, enter the vehicle and then a second detonation will occur, eliminating whoever is unlucky enough to be inside. (AT4)
so the simple answer, aim at the flank.

 

[plasmahawk]

Are themobaric rounds like the Shmel and Shmel M effective for anti-work? Thank you.

RPO RPO-Z Schmel Systems ( [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybpr3g0v7_8"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame] ) are not designed to be an anti armor weapon, best way to describe them in simplest terms is a flame thrower in a can.

Thus if a tank is shot with a Shmel and it starts burning this can damage a tank, however, a thermobaric explosion outside of a sealed armoured vehicle is not likely to do much damage to its occupants.

however, if someone were to leave the hatch open and a round were to go into the tank and detonate inside or someone managed to shoot a round inside the compartment of an APC and it were to detonate inside yes that would be death for the crew.

RPO type questions is more of an anti personell/infantry thread type question.
Plas

Cool video of the RPG 3x, its in russian, pause at 1:06 to see the damage to a steel plate
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xApaFzrrfU&feature=related"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

 

[T.C.P]

Does any one know the penetration cpability of a Javelin

 

[Feanor]

It would be a lot more helpful to keep the subject in the thread already designated for it. I'm going to merge this with the other thread.

 

[Saiga]

Does any one know the penetration cpability of a Javelin

This is unimportant cause it is a top-attack missile.
If it hits the target it is gone.

But this is Off topic.
A Javelin is also a ATGM.
And one missile cost about 80000$.

 

[Spetsznaz]

RPO RPO-Z Schmel Systems ( YouTube- Broadcast Yourself. ) are not designed to be an anti armor weapon, best way to describe them in simplest terms is a flame thrower in a can.

Thus if a tank is shot with a Shmel and it starts burning this can damage a tank, however, a thermobaric explosion outside of a sealed armoured vehicle is not likely to do much damage to its occupants.

however, if someone were to leave the hatch open and a round were to go into the tank and detonate inside or someone managed to shoot a round inside the compartment of an APC and it were to detonate inside yes that would be death for the crew.

RPO type questions is more of an anti personell/infantry thread type question.
Plas

Cool video of the RPG 3x, its in russian, pause at 1:06 to see the damage to a steel plate
YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

Wow I speak Russian and I have to say that the RPG-32 sounds like its going to blow the AT4 and the Javelin out of the water:coffee

The whole thing on how it fires more than one warhead to make penetration even better is amazing

 

[Saiga]

Well i don't thing so.
It could certainly not outperform the Javelin, but that is also an other weapon class.
And i would also not rely on such TV-shows.
They love to overplay a little bit
It is a good weapon but in fact the RPG28 is a better one.