Indian Army's decay

Red aRRow

Forum Bouncer
:cop :cop :cop :cop :cop :cop :cop

NEW DELHI (AFP) - The alleged gangrape of a student by four presidential guards in the heart of New Delhi has shocked India, with experts saying it pointed to a decay in the state of the military.

The elite Presidential Body Guard (PBG) soldiers have been charged with the gangrape on Monday of a 17-year-old girl in a popular joggers' park less than two kilometres (a mile) from the official residence of President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam.


Soon after the news broke, Defence Minister George Fernandes ordered army chief General N.C. Vij to take the sternest of measures against the suspects if they were found guilty.


Vij on Thursday called the alleged assault a "blot" on the nation's defenders and pledged exemplary punishment if the accused were convicted, while the military ordered massive scrutiny of the horse-mounted PBG.


Press reports Friday said Kalam had ordered Fernandes to take stern disciplinary action against the four soldiers and to ensure such incidents did not recur.


New Delhi military garrison commander Major General Thomas Mathew visited the girl's home after the police arrested the soldiers Wednesday, and Kalam spoke roughly with his staff, ordering them "not to stray into any kind of offence," officials said.


The alleged assault coincided with Fernandes demanding a report on the suicide of a 15-year-old girl in northeastern Manipur state last month after she too was allegedly gangraped by soldiers.


The Indian army does not publish figures of sexual offences by the military but human rights groups point to Kashmir (news - web sites), alleging the army uses rape as an instrument to put down Islamic insurgency.


Military experts said the New Delhi incident pointed to growing lawlessness in the army, saying criminal assaults and human rights abuses were on the rise.


"The alleged involvement of members of the military's most show-cased unit, the PBG, is a sad pointer of the state of our military," said an expert from the defence ministry-funded Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses.


"Due to the sensitivity of this case we cannot speak freely but we could see such incidents unless we take steps including drawing out the army from internal security duties and sensitising them to civilian life," he said.


"If the rot has reached the PBG, then it is time to act," said the expert, who declined to be identified.


The Indian military has been deployed to combat an Islamic insurgency in Kashmir where soldiers have gained notoriety as abusers of human rights while thousands of troops have been killed or wounded.


Thousands of troops are also battling tribal and separatist guerillas in six of India's seven northeastern states, where attacks such as the alleged rape by troops of the 15-year-old girl are often reported.


Former Air Force chief N.K. Sareen said such deployments were leading to the erosion of military traditions.


"The army is made to do dirty jobs of the police and the paramilitary, which is not only blunting its combat potential but has also eroded the military traditions of our forces," Sareen told AFP.


Once considered one of India's best professions, the army now faces a shortage of 15,000 officers as most educated young men prefer the private sector and shy away from the armed forces for fear of being dragged into internal security duties.

"Our society is not ready for the exposure to sexual orgasms and extra-marital affairs dished out by the media and it has an affect on soldiers whose IQ level is very basic," said Sareen.

"They see politicians raping and killing and the high and mighty getting away with everything.

"And our army comes from within society and not from external sources and so it is our society which is in decay."




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corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
They're doin the same rapin stuff in KAshmir and all other insurgency areas. There just pathetic plain and simple no matter how much u spend on them
 

Su_37

New Member
Well yes it is came top shocking that President Gard done the rape and they are also punished for their behaviour .

regarding Kashmir , i don;t have to tell to my pall that Pak Soilder had raped womens in jammu and kashmir in 1947 when they came their to grab the land forcefully.

Other thing , Pak trained Millitents also rape women in J & K and i don;t need to tell them they are also pak militry proxi.
 

The Watcher

New Member
su37, when you claim something you are suppose to back it up with solid evidence and proof. What proof do you have of your claims against Pakistani troops???

Also, whats up with your signature? Yeah I wana talk defence and strategic affairs, but HERE on the forum. :roll
 

Red aRRow

Forum Bouncer
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
The Watcher said:
Also, whats up with your signature? Yeah I wana talk defence and strategic affairs, but HERE on the forum. :roll

:D :D :D :D yeah i was wondering the same.
Anyway welcome to the forum Su-37.
 

ambushb

New Member
Chill!

They're doin the same rapin stuff in KAshmir and all other insurgency areas. There just pathetic plain and simple no matter how much u spend on them
Hey Guys!:mad:
Well to get off on the right foot, lemme make it clear to the forum that baseless allegations against any one is uncalled for. As for this dastardly act, Im sure that after readin the article, its quite evident that the incident hasn't been brushed under the carpet, but imdt measures have been taken to punish the offenders severely. Lets face it, there are bad eggs in every Military or non mil org in the world. Its evident that these are aberrations and these are being dealt with extremely harshly by the auth.
As for the quote above, Id like to assure corsair, that as much as one would like to believe any sensational news, nothing can beat eyeball MkII!!!:eek:nfloorl: Moreover, the democratically elected administration of Kashmir, the media and the intelligensia in the State of Jammu and Kashmir would not tolerate any such incidents, however likely one might like to think of them. The Indian Army has set extremely high stds in discp, and one may like to check it with any of the innumerable UN Msns that are currently having Indian Troops in action. And, yes, I can back this up with proof!! lol! :D
Cheers!!
 

Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
Yes sure !!

Is that why there are 700,000+ armed Indians occupying Kashmiris.

Is that why there are 14 UNO resolutions which India defy every day ?

Is that why 60,000-80,000 Kashmiris died in the hands of Indian Armed occupiers ?

Is that why Kashmiris want to introduce Pakistani currency in Indian Held Kashmir?

What about the other abuses by Indian security in Indian Occupied Kashmir ?

Dont get me started flooding this topic with Amnesty International and Red Cross and other countless news sources !!

Kashmir is a disputed terriotory and so is Arunchal Pradesh and others !!
 

RubiconNZ

The Wanderer
Wow first a guy resurrecting a five year old thread most of which who participated have long since moved on.
Hey Guys!
Well to get off on the right foot, lemme make it clear to the forum that baseless allegations against any one is uncalled for. As for this dastardly act, Im sure that after readin the article, its quite evident that the incident hasn't been brushed under the carpet, but imdt measures have been taken to punish the offenders severely. Lets face it, there are bad eggs in every Military or non mil org in the world. Its evident that these are aberrations and these are being dealt with extremely harshly by the auth.
As for the quote above, Id like to assure corsair, that as much as one would like to believe any sensational news, nothing can beat eyeball MkII!!! Moreover, the democratically elected administration of Kashmir, the media and the intelligensia in the State of Jammu and Kashmir would not tolerate any such incidents, however likely one might like to think of them. The Indian Army has set extremely high stds in discp, and one may like to check it with any of the innumerable UN Msns that are currently having Indian Troops in action. And, yes, I can back this up with proof!! lol!
Cheers!!
Then you Aliph as usual arching up unnecessarily.

Yes sure !!

Is that why there are 700,000+ armed Indians occupying Kashmiris.

Is that why there are 14 UNO resolutions which India defy every day ?

Is that why 60,000-80,000 Kashmiris died in the hands of Indian Armed occupiers ?

Is that why Kashmiris want to introduce Pakistani currency in Indian Held Kashmir?

What about the other abuses by Indian security in Indian Occupied Kashmir ?

Dont get me started flooding this topic with Amnesty International and Red Cross and other countless news sources !!

Kashmir is a disputed terriotory and so is Arunchal Pradesh and others !!
how many warnings do you want to get? Surely you have been around long enough to know how to play nice.

I am sick of clowns trying to bring the standard down, consider yourself both reported.
 
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aaaditya

New Member
Yes sure !!

Is that why there are 700,000+ armed Indians occupying Kashmiris.

Is that why there are 14 UNO resolutions which India defy every day ?

Is that why 60,000-80,000 Kashmiris died in the hands of Indian Armed occupiers ?

Is that why Kashmiris want to introduce Pakistani currency in Indian Held Kashmir?

What about the other abuses by Indian security in Indian Occupied Kashmir ?

Dont get me started flooding this topic with Amnesty International and Red Cross and other countless news sources !!

Kashmir is a disputed terriotory and so is Arunchal Pradesh and others !!
the pakistanis nor the americans are no saints mate.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The next poster who triggers or generates a flame or baits anyone will be banned for 3 months.

Get over it everyone, debate on merit not nationality and leave the other rubbish at home.

It's unnecessary and I am sick and tired of seeing "Reported Post" in my inbox.
 

kams

New Member
Yes sure !!

Is that why there are 700,000+ armed Indians occupying Kashmiris.

Is that why there are 14 UNO resolutions which India defy every day ?

Is that why 60,000-80,000 Kashmiris died in the hands of Indian Armed occupiers ?

Is that why Kashmiris want to introduce Pakistani currency in Indian Held Kashmir?

What about the other abuses by Indian security in Indian Occupied Kashmir ?

Dont get me started flooding this topic with Amnesty International and Red Cross and other countless news sources !!

Kashmir is a disputed terriotory and so is Arunchal Pradesh and others !!

Need for a counterinsurgency strategy

Sunday, June 15, 2008
Khalid Aziz
The writer is a former chief secretary of NWFP and currently heads the Regional Institute of Policy Research in Peshawar

The difficulties faced by Pakistan at a bilateral level with the United States and other allies about the conduct of the 9/11 war, including the recent US attack in Mohmand

Agency, demands a national counterinsurgency strategy. The absence of a strategy is the cause of many problems at the strategic, tactical and human rights level.

The army entered the tribal areas in 2003-04 and has been involved in active operations there ever since. The rest of the country has witnessed a wave of retaliatory suicide bombing by militants, which has resulted in an ever increasing number of deaths and collateral damage. US drone attacks are regularly conducted inside Pakistani territory from across the border in Afghanistan, raising the issue of Pakistani sovereignty.

Pakistani intelligence operations have led to the arrest of many wanted militants, said to be more than 700. The rendition of many of them without judicial process and the related troublesome issue of missing persons have played a key role in the creation of the Pakistani judicial crisis, which is now derailing national attempts to get to grips with the insurgency.
Since the state denies that it is fighting a serious insurgency it does not have a comprehensive set of transformation policies in place. As national policy remains unfocused it has led to the creation of many anomalies and difficulties. For instance, although Pakistan has committed more than 200,000 security personnel this war, including about 90,000 members of the military, it is accused by the US and others that it is not doing enough. Is it not enough that Pakistan has deployed more forces against the militants than the combined US, NATO and Afghan forces in Afghanistan? Is it not true that the major successes in the war have been scored by Pakistani forces?

It is possible that a majority of these problems have arisen because we don't have a counterinsurgency strategy even after years of fighting. Its presence would have indicated the limits of Pakistani involvement and its compulsions, thus reducing external demands for it "to do more."
I am leaving out majority of stuff internal to Pakistan..

It is clear that if and when we design a counterinsurgency policy we can learn from India's strategy. It states, "low-intensity conflict is armed conflict for political purposes short of combat between regularly organised forces." It goes on to say in Section 5.1, that such operations are aimed at management rather than conflict resolution. Secondly, such operations are directed at a qualitative improvement of the situation, rather providing a solution.


However, the pith of the Indian counterinsurgency strategy lies in the code of conduct for the military. It states: "Remember that the people you are dealing with are your own countrymen; your behaviour must be dictated by this consideration. Violation of human rights, therefore, must be avoided under all circumstances, even at the cost of operational success."
It further states: "Accounting and disposal of apprehended persons…..must also be conducted scrupulously." Such persons must be dealt under the provisions of the Code of Criminal Procedure, it says. If such a doctrine was applicable in Pakistan, we would have avoided the President's confrontation with the judiciary arising out of the missing persons' issue.

We must quickly frame a nationally accepted counterinsurgency strategy. It will help us negotiate better and protect us from many internal and external pressures in the conduct of this war.
As Alif ahmeds post is still standing, I thought i should post what a former Pakistani Gov. Beurocrat's thoughts.
 
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