Restarting the F-22 line

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shooterperth1

New Member
I'd really like to know what you think about restarting the F-22 line . And what upgrades will be used to improve it . I hope and pray that Australia will be able to afford buy and support this aircraft as we were unable to with the original . National Defence magazine July 2016. Vol c1 num 752 . Page 36. F-22 Restart might not be beneficial for Lockheed Martin. Congress wants to know what it would take to restart the F-22 production line. But analysts say there are many hurdles to overcome . The cost is just one of them.
 
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Sam W

New Member
Is the F-22 line being restarted?

Apart from the F-22 is the F-35 the best aircraft for defending Australian Airspace?

Is the F-35 an air superiority fighter?

Edit: Sorry, for the basic questions. Doing some reading now.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Is the F-22 line being restarted?

Apart from the F-22 is the F-35 the best aircraft for defending Australian Airspace?

Is the F-35 an air superiority fighter?
There is a plethora of information on various threads re the F35. Go read them and then if you have informed questions come back and ask them.
 

the road runner

Active Member
Is the F-22 line being restarted?

Apart from the F-22 is the F-35 the best aircraft for defending Australian Airspace?

Is the F-35 an air superiority fighter?
Nope the F-22 line will not be restarted and if it was ,it would cost a crap load of money to start the line up....

The JSF is the right plane for Australia. There was bad press on the JSF regarding the pre production models. Most people in the press did not under stand that a pre production model was the model where you have issues and problem solve these issues before it goes into full rate production. The JSF has over come most of the issues and is maturing into a first rate fighter.

The F-35 will be able to handle Air defense and i know of no other fighter that will be able to carry a variety of weapons the JSF dose.

You can read the JSF threads here ..


http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/f-35-program-general-discussion-12487/

And here

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/f-35-international-participation-12485/

and here

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/f-35b-c-naval-air-discussions-usn-usmc-12486/
 

shooterperth1

New Member
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Nope the F-22 line will not be restarted and if it was ,it would cost a crap load of money to start the line up....

The JSF is the right plane for Australia. There was bad press on the JSF regarding the pre production models. Most people in the press did not under stand that a pre production model was the model where you have issues and problem solve these issues before it goes into full rate production. The JSF has over come most of the issues and is maturing into a first rate fighter.

The F-35 will be able to handle Air defense and i know of no other fighter that will be able to carry a variety of discussions-usn-usmc-12486/[/url]
Aust is huge and if you don't have external fuel tanks it has limited range(no we don't have enough of the refueling air craft we need to support any more than 2 missions at time if that) and without external weapons carriage it can only carry a limited loadout all this means that it's stealth is negated,also from the rear it has no true stealth. As an air defence fighter yes it can do the job if it's not carrying air to ground weapons and doesn't have far to go. All of this means even tho it is a multirole aircraft it can't do both jobs at the same time. Without air serperiority it can only do limited roles this means we need a whole lot more of them to cover air defence and ground attack. With a limited no of F-22's we can gain control of the air and carry out ground attacks on day 1 and then the F-35 can use all of its many abilitys. We already identified the need for an air defence fighter when we ordered the JSF and the only current aircraft to do this is the F-22.
 

protoplasm

Active Member
It has been 5 years since the line closed, and it'll take multiple years, plus a huge amount of money to restart the line. So you'd end up with a colossally expensive per unit aircraft, that you won't see for quite a few years (it'll take at least 2 years to get the long lead items up to the point where are pumping out large volumes of production parts), even if a decision was made today to do this. IT ISN"T GOING TO HAPPEN.

The F-22 will never wear a RAAF roundel
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The USAF was directed to investigate restarting the F22 line, but has so far been found it to be a very expensive proposition. The aircraft systems would also require modernisation, which in itself is quite expensive. Finally, under current law the US is prohibited from exporting the F22.
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
Aust is huge and if you don't have external fuel tanks it has limited range(no we don't have enough of the refueling air craft we need to support any more than 2 missions at time if that) and without external weapons carriage it can only carry a limited loadout all this means that it's stealth is negated,also from the rear it has no true stealth. As an air defence fighter yes it can do the job if it's not carrying air to ground weapons and doesn't have far to go. All of this means even tho it is a multirole aircraft it can't do both jobs at the same time. Without air serperiority it can only do limited roles this means we need a whole lot more of them to cover air defence and ground attack. With a limited no of F-22's we can gain control of the air and carry out ground attacks on day 1 and then the F-35 can use all of its many abilitys. We already identified the need for an air defence fighter when we ordered the JSF and the only current aircraft to do this is the F-22.
I think you would benefit from a thorough reading of the F35 thread as there are quite a few misconceptions in the above. For instance:

- The RAAF neither seeks nor needs to be able to cover Australia's entire airspace with fighter aircraft at all times. We have systems such as Vigilare, JORN and Wedgetail (ie. our ISR network) to ensure that they can be directed to where they are needed at the right time. That said I have no idea as to what air threat you have in mind.

- The F35's range is actually one of its strengths - last time I checked the combat radius of the F35A was actually marginally better than the F22's, and substantially superior to that of the aircraft it will replace in the RAAF - the F/A18A/B.

- The F35 is not confined to performing just one role during a given sortie by its internal bays. In its present form it is true that it carries a maximum of 4 AMRAAMs internally, or 2 AMRAAMS along with 2 large air to ground munitions (GBU31, JSOW, JSM, whatever). By Block 4, however, the AMRAAM capacity will grow to 6, with the planned implementation of weapons like SACM and SDB allowing that figure to grow even further.

- The F35 does not lack "true stealth" from the rear quarter - this is a myth I first saw peddled by Carlo Kopp, an individual with a less than stellar track record for accurately representing this particular aircraft. The F35's exhaust nozzle, for example, is recessed as an IR signature reduction measure and to my knowledge derives its design from the LOAN program of the mid to late 90's. Some people seem to see the vaguely round nozzle and assume it indicates a lack of low observability. This is not the case.

- The F22 is not and never was a viable alternative for the RAAF. There are other posters who would know the exact details better than I do but, suffice it to say, it's a prohibitively expensive jet for an airforce like the RAAF. Combine that with the fact that its air to ground functionality is and shall remain extremely limited compared to the F35's and you start to see why the RAAF never so much as pursued it.

Even if the F22 had been for sale (which it wasn't at the time and isn't now), I strongly suspect you'd still have seen the RAAF go in the same direction (F35 one for one with classic Hornets). AIR6000 did NOT call for a specialist air defence/superiority aircraft like the F22 at any point.
 
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the road runner

Active Member
Aust is huge and if you don't have external fuel tanks it has limited range(no we don't have enough of the refueling air craft we need to support any more than 2 missions at time if that) and without external weapons carriage it can only carry a limited loadout all this means that it's stealth is negated,also from the rear it has no true stealth. As an air defence fighter yes it can do the job if it's not carrying air to ground weapons and doesn't have far to go. All of this means even tho it is a multirole aircraft it can't do both jobs at the same time. Without air serperiority it can only do limited roles this means we need a whole lot more of them to cover air defence and ground attack. With a limited no of F-22's we can gain control of the air and carry out ground attacks on day 1 and then the F-35 can use all of its many abilitys. We already identified the need for an air defence fighter when we ordered the JSF and the only current aircraft to do this is the F-22.
I Don't get your point... we have Tankers and the JSF could be armed for AD roles.It can be loaded with AMRAAM and Aim 9X. It flys with close to 9 ton of fuel and has a ceiling height of approx 60,000 feet with a combat radius similar to a F-18 Super

Is this attack on Australia going to have some super doooper flying stealth aircraft that can fly thousands of miles with out a tanker ,or do the same laws apply to every one in regards to fuel/weapons load ?

Once newer weapons such as CUDA/SDB are developed and integrated onto JSF it will be very versatile in both air and ground attack with larger numbers of salvos

Its a bit of a moot point to say we need F-22,when in reality its impossible to achieve as the line has closed and the F-22 has never been offered for export !
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Only aircraft that the RAAF may have considered was the proposed FB-22 medium bomber as a direct replacement for the aging F1-11, only problem it never got off the drawing board.

FB-22 Fighter Bomber
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Only aircraft that the RAAF may have considered was the proposed FB-22 medium bomber as a direct replacement for the aging F1-11, only problem it never got off the drawing board.

FB-22 Fighter Bomber

again, was never considered

I'll point out (again) that I was at the Conference where Gates stated in front of a room full of senior sirs and decision makers that if Aust wanted the F-22 that he could not see the USG or Congress being an impediment due to the nature of our relationship - and that if it was wanted that the USG via DoD would assist where approp

RAAF did an assessment to test the merits of getting the F-22 as part of the JSF fallout when hand wringing was at its peak - they didn't want it and it raised the issues of force balance and planning across the entire community


all - can we move on from the RAAF F-22 acquisition theoreticals as its seriously been done to death

newbies can do searches rather than this subject matter do a lazarus every few months or so....
 
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