PLA Airforce Deploys AWACS

[lamdacore]

(20 Nov 2004) The PLAAF will soon deploy China’s first indigenous AWACS. Internet photos show that at least one A-50 AWACS with a Chinese-made airborne early warning radar has been undergoing tests near Nanjing since late 2003.


source: http://www.sinodefence.com/

Pretty quick ain't it guys? China is really making good progress. Maybe Pakistan can get its hands on it to counter India's Phalcon AWACS!!

 

[umair]

Heard of the ERIEYE deal beng almost done? :roll

 

[gf0012-aust]

(20 Nov 2004) The PLAAF will soon deploy China’s first indigenous AWACS. Internet photos show that at least one A-50 AWACS with a Chinese-made airborne early warning radar has been undergoing tests near Nanjing since late 2003.


source: http://www.sinodefence.com/

Pretty quick ain't it guys? China is really making good progress. Maybe Pakistan can get its hands on it to counter India's Phalcon AWACS!!

This is old news - in fact I posted pics of Chinas AWACs about 6 months ago - so I don't know why it has raised itself again.

Why in heavens name would you want to get analogue technology from China when digital scanned array technology is coming from Ericcson??

The Swedes have a long history in this game - I'm not sure I'd be buying Chinese gear just yet - especially when they are using old technology.

 

[doggychow14]

I thought their new AWAC was similar to the phalcon?

 

[gf0012-aust]

I thought their new AWAC was similar to the phalcon?

If it is, then it's not the image shown in sinodefence. Thats an analogue system.. It's not an active scanned array - which is what Phalcon is.

 

[doggychow14]

Chinese AWACS has a unique phased array radar (PAR) carried in a round radome. Unlike the U.S. AWACS aircraft, which rotate their rotodomes to give a 360 degree coverage, the radar antenna of the Chinese AWACS does not rotate. Instead, three PAR antenna modules are placed in a triangular configuration inside the round radome to provide a 360 degree coverage.

The Chinese-made airborne earning warning radar system could be similar i
n capability to the IAI Phalcon, but may not be as capable as the latter


from sinodefence

 

[gf0012-aust]

Chinese AWACS has a unique phased array radar (PAR) carried in a round radome. Unlike the U.S. AWACS aircraft, which rotate their rotodomes to give a 360 degree coverage, the radar antenna of the Chinese AWACS does not rotate. Instead, three PAR antenna modules are placed in a triangular configuration inside the round radome to provide a 360 degree coverage.

The Chinese-made airborne earning warning radar system could be similar i
n capability to the IAI Phalcon, but may not be as capable as the latter


from sinodefence

Not wanting to get into a technical dissertation here. But a scanned array typically takes up approx 1/4 of the space of an analogue system. There is no design imperative that would make any modern AWACs use a radome as a digital housing due to:

size,
weight,
drag
efficiency,
all of the above contribute to lousy performance - irrespective of how light you make the housing, it contributes greatly to platform degradation.

and yes, I have seen the inside of an analogue dome and and scanned array and know the internal dimensions differences.

For 1/4 the size you get greater flight range, greater interrogation range, better handling, a wider choice of airfields to use etc etc.....

Personally, if that's what they're saying on that site - I have a strong doubt that it's what it actually is - no sane designer with access to current technology would be imposing load bearings on an aircraft of that size unless they really had to. - and that means its a design limitation thats necessitated a huge unnecessary dome.

btw, I have seen video footage of a PLAAF aircraft - and I have seen what appeared to be "it" myself (in Beijing) where the dome is turning - in flight. That of course means that it's not digital.

 

[adsH]

what if gf they acquired a Russian design of a basic analogue AWAC and then they retrofitted it to save time and money on design of a new mounting system. it would make sense since PLAAF is desperate for AWACS. but i can't see any reason for a Radom radar housing a electronically scanned array radar. except that it might increase coverage if the they were placed in a triangle shape and they might be able to move those radar for extra coverage. the chinese were in a hurry so it might be a quick fix till there Eyrie copy rolls out.

 

[doggychow14]

Originally a few years back there was a deal between isreal russia and China to install the phalcon radar on the a-50 platform. However the deal was blocked. All the sources that i have visted (chinese military avaition, sinodefence, jdw, kwana) all have speculated a phased array .

 

[gf0012-aust]

what if gf they acquired a Russian design of a basic analogue AWAC and then they retrofitted it to save time and money on design of a new mounting system. it would make sense since PLAAF is desperate for AWACS. but i can't see any reason for a Radom radar housing a electronically scanned array radar. except that it might increase coverage if the they were placed in a triangle shape and they might be able to move those radar for extra coverage. the chinese were in a hurry so it might be a quick fix till there Eyrie copy rolls out.

adsH, of course that's possible, but even as a short term solution, the flight performance impediments would warrant removal and to go to a broad beam.

you're one of the people who can appreciate the flight degradation issues, so I won't go over that again.

then again - maybe this aircraft is a mule.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Originally a few years back there was a deal between isreal russia and China to install the phalcon radar on the a-50 platform. However the deal was blocked. All the sources that i have visted (chinese military avaition, sinodefence, jdw, kwana) all have speculated a phased array .

I think they've got the terminology wrong, on aircraft it's an active (electronic) scanned array, in warships they use a phased array.

 

[doggychow14]

They probably did. However i doubt that when they said phased aray they refered to an analogous system

thought to be an A-50I platform fitted with an indigenous AWACS system (KJ-2000? developed by Nanjing Electronic Technology Research Insitute/14 Institute). The system is presumably similar, but slightly inferior to the Israeli Phalcon system with a fixed (?) rotodome housing three phased array antennas in a triangular configuration. As the result a 360? radar coverage can be achieved. A large EW antenna is located inside the radome projecting forward on top of the vertial tailfin. Two large angled ventral fins are attached underneath the tail to compensate the effort of rotodome on aircraft handling. A nose-mounted IFR probe indicates its operations can be further extended with the tanker support. Following the humiliation of the cancelled A-50I/Phalcon contract with Israel in 2000, China salvaged this A-50I from Israel via Russia in 2002 without the Phalcon system. It was reported that a significant amount of resources have been invested into this high-priority project following an executive order issued by the Chinese President

Chinese military avaition

 

[gf0012-aust]

They probably did. However i doubt that when they said phased aray they refered to an analogous system

No, what I meant was that aircraft are active electronic scanned arrays - not phased arrays.

thought to be an A-50I platform fitted with an indigenous AWACS system (KJ-2000? developed by Nanjing Electronic Technology Research Insitute/14 Institute). The system is presumably similar, but slightly inferior to the Israeli Phalcon system with a fixed (?) rotodome housing three phased array antennas in a triangular configuration. As the result a 360? radar coverage can be achieved. A large EW antenna is located inside the radome projecting forward on top of the vertial tailfin. Two large angled ventral fins are attached underneath the tail to compensate the effort of rotodome on aircraft handling.

The ventral fins become redundant. The reason why they are there is to compensate for torque on a moving radome. An ESA system doesn't move. In aircraft one of the bigger enemies is unnecessary weight - the first thing you would do is remove excess weight, thereby increasing the range, loiter time (critical in AWACs) and increase fuel efficiencies.

A nose-mounted IFR probe indicates its operations can be further extended with the tanker support. Following the humiliation of the cancelled A-50I/Phalcon contract with Israel in 2000, China salvaged this A-50I from Israel via Russia in 2002 without the Phalcon system. It was reported that a significant amount of resources have been invested into this high-priority project following an executive order issued by the Chinese President

It's a remarkable achievement to get a solution in such a small time frame - but I have doubts about what is said has been done due to lots of different technical "disconnects".

 

[rajupaki]

What is the detection range of this AWA&C against A fighter aircraft, Transport, halicopter?

 

[doggychow14]

The ventral fins become redundant. The reason why they are there is to compensate for torque on a moving radome. An ESA system doesn't move. In aircraft one of the bigger enemies is unnecessary weight - the first thing you would do is remove excess weight, thereby increasing the range, loiter time (critical in AWACs) and increase fuel efficiencies.

yes but the plaaf was under extreme pressure to finish the project in order to build a phalcon type nose they would have to design or buy a new aircraft. If you look at the pictures of the AWACs carefully u will notice that the radome is in the same position in all the pictures. (note the direction the triangle is facing)