Sweden orders more Gripen fighters

[StobieWan]

I can't see a reference to CHF 100 million per aircraft there. Where did you get it from? The original budget was 2.2 billion overall, i.e. about 100 million per aircraft, but (1) that wasn't for just the aircraft, & (2) the final price is 3.126 billion, or about CHF142 mn per aircraft for the whole contract. I've not found a breakdown of that, so can't tell how much is for the aircraft alone.

I've not got a discrete breakdown but the 100mill figure came from this article here:

Svensk Gripen E påstås dyrare än schweizisk - NyTeknik

Swedish language but google translate should catch it.

They don't break out the contract price there (usual deal with trying to get a solid lock on how much an aircraft cost!) However, gut feeling is that 100 mill comes closer to the sort of ratio of aircraft plus cost that I'd expect.

Mainly, I'm not buying the concept of Gripen as half the price of F35 is what I'm saying. It's going to be cheaper, or certainly should be but half a full rate production F35 ? Nah

 

[ADMk2]

I've not got a discrete breakdown but the 100mill figure came from this article here:

Svensk Gripen E påstås dyrare än schweizisk - NyTeknik

Swedish language but google translate should catch it.

They don't break out the contract price there (usual deal with trying to get a solid lock on how much an aircraft cost!) However, gut feeling is that 100 mill comes closer to the sort of ratio of aircraft plus cost that I'd expect.

Mainly, I'm not buying the concept of Gripen as half the price of F35 is what I'm saying. It's going to be cheaper, or certainly should be but half a full rate production F35 ? Nah

Assuming no further orders, SAAB has 82 Gripen E aircraft on order and a production line they wish to sustain until 2014.

That won't be a high build rate (8-10 aircraft per year at best) and won't help on cost per aircraft, (though additional orders are possible, maybe even probable) and would alleviate that issue somewhat.

 

[Wall83]

Thank you Wall83 for this very interesting thread, which I just caught up on. I have read several times in press articles about the supposed outrage at the Swedes paying more for the Gripen E than the Swiss but if you think about it this is really no big surprise. France certainly subsidizes sales of its planes and so do Britain and the US though in the latter's case this is somehow more difficult to ascertain as so many platforms are delivered with 'export' technology that is not supposed to be a match for the equipment fielded in the US military.

I agree with the earlier point by several people that comparing pricing on two completely different platforms is hard. I know, I make the same mistake all the time.

I once got a detailed briefing on the Gripen's off airport capability and I dare say that short of the AV8B/C, it may be the only Western aircraft recently produced with such capabilities. Certainly, the VTOL JSF will NOT match this flexibility because of its inherent greater maintenance requirements.

Also, on two of my trips to Sweden years ago, I got a very close look at the 'alternate' locations for fielding SAAB fighters near highways and the setup was both simple/cheap and inspiringly flexible (we should learn from the latter). A very rugged fielding capability is often disregarded in the West as a Soviet-era Russian obsession but this assumes that we will never again face an organized, pervasive and competent military threat --likely to be correct in the short term but a very short-sighted view IMHO.

Lastly, an anecdote, I happened to be in Stockholm on a frequent visit when I was watching the pre-series Gripen do a demo and crash not very far from a bridge where I was standing with our team. The software was immediately a culprit from one person I was with but I don't recall the final report. What was the cause of the crash?

I think the highway temporary airfeilds ideas are scrapped these days, as most of the old Cold War plans. The extra long straight highways are still there so I supose they could be used if the situation needed it.
I know of one just a few miles from where I live.

The crasch back in 1993 I dont know. I think it was software as you say combined with that the pilots still wasnt used to the very modern flyby wire system in that time. It was relly RELLY bad pupblisity for SAAB when that happend i remember

 

[Wall83]

Assuming no further orders, SAAB has 82 Gripen E aircraft on order and a production line they wish to sustain until 2014.

That won't be a high build rate (8-10 aircraft per year at best) and won't help on cost per aircraft, (though additional orders are possible, maybe even probable) and would alleviate that issue somewhat.

2014? The first Gripen E aint expected untill 2018 so the production line is probably safe untill 2023-25. Saab is still producing Gripen C and D in its factory in Linköping.
And I will also think tht by 2020 Sweden is ready to order more fighters from Saab.

 

[swerve]

I've not got a discrete breakdown but the 100mill figure came from this article here:

Svensk Gripen E påstås dyrare än schweizisk - NyTeknik

Swedish language but google translate should catch it.

They don't break out the contract price there (usual deal with trying to get a solid lock on how much an aircraft cost!) However, gut feeling is that 100 mill comes closer to the sort of ratio of aircraft plus cost that I'd expect.

Mainly, I'm not buying the concept of Gripen as half the price of F35 is what I'm saying. It's going to be cheaper, or certainly should be but half a full rate production F35 ? Nah

It's a non-specialist publication throwing around round numbers without showing any basis for them. I'd be wary of those numbers. Wall83's link has a government spokesman giving a lower number, though again, it's very rough.

 

[Wall83]

News on the Gripen E.

The Swedish fighters are now not going to be upgraded C planes but will be totaly new airplanes.
There is also a possibility that a further 10 Es will be orderd.
It is also talks about buying a long range anti-air missile system for the army. More then dubble the the ground airdefence.

The russian has surley awakend someone in the defence department.


Försvarsministern vill miljardsatsa på flygvapnet - Nyheter | SVT.se
Moderaterna vill skynda på nytt luftvärnssystem - Nyheter (Ekot) | Sveriges Radio

 

[SignalGuy]

JAS-39 "Gripen"

This is good news.
I do have a question about this latest variant of the aircraft.
You see, some of the main reasons I am so fond of this aircraft is the ability of the early versions to be deployed and recovered using civilian roadways instead of full sized airfields, and, it's minimal need of ground crew and equipment, and, it's affordability for small to mid-sized nations. And of course the very good battlefield information sharing and networking.
so, I would like to hear from anyone who can tell me whether or not some, or most, or even all of these capabilities will be present in the latest design.
Thank you & cheers,
Robert Baker
414th Signal Co 1982 (USA)
32nd Signal Battalion 1983 (USA)

 

[StobieWan]

It'll have to be - Sweden's air force is built around a type that can be easily and quickly turned around by a conscript force with relatively little training - they can't move away from that, or abandon the deployments they've structured their war fighting around I should think.

I'm keen to see the E in service, put it that way.

 

[Wall83]

Well Sweden itself doesnt use conscipts any more. Not since 2010.
However I dont think the E version is going to sway away far from the other Gripens in those terms .
It has to remain cheap if it will sell abroad.

And the ground airdefence is relly a joke today. Down to a few companys with the Hawk system.