Russian Navy plans to build 4 new Aircraft Carriers

Francis

New Member
While researching about the Russian Federation navy in Wikipedia.org I saw a claim that Russia Plans to build and design 4 new aircraft carriers out of scratch , could that be true ? and would it make the russian navy a blue water and what would it look like ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_navy
 
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webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
Link to the wiki article would help.

Also, NAVAL / NAVY related topics belong in the NAVY / NAVAL Forces Forum.

Thread moved!
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
While researching about the Russian Federation navy in Wikipedia.org I saw a claim that Russia Plans to build and design 4 new aircraft carriers out of scratch , could that be true ? and would it make the russian navy a blue water and what would it look like ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_navy
Just a correction that Kuroyedov announced planning of a class design and only two ships in the class, one based in the Northern Fleet, and the other with the Pacific Fleet. He also announced design of a new multi-purpose fleet aircraft to be based on the carrier class.
 

aaaditya

New Member
Just a correction that Kuroyedov announced planning of a class design and only two ships in the class, one based in the Northern Fleet, and the other with the Pacific Fleet. He also announced design of a new multi-purpose fleet aircraft to be based on the carrier class.
so what carrier borne aircraft will they use,the mig29k,the su33,a resurrected yak141freestyle or the pakfa.also will they have a carrier based awacs system?
 

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
I would be very surprised if the Russians could afford to build and maintain four aircraft carriers, even with the projected increase of funds for the military. Remember they need to have round-the-clock protection when being deployed, so you have to factor in having enough escorts available (i.e. in fit condition to sail).

Plus if you read the article on the forum link it doesn't say four carriers anywhere, just two.
 

contedicavour

New Member
I don't see what Russia stands to gain by spending money on aircraft carriers... out of its 4 fleets the only one that may indeed need some naval projection is the Pacific one. The North Sea, Baltic Sea and Black Sea are mostly in a defensive posture, and sufficient numbers of modern SSNs and ASW or AAW destroyers would already be more than enough.
I still see no decent replacements for Udaloy, Sovremmenny...

cheers
 

Big-E

Banned Member
Just a correction that Kuroyedov announced planning of a class design and only two ships in the class, one based in the Northern Fleet, and the other with the Pacific Fleet. He also announced design of a new multi-purpose fleet aircraft to be based on the carrier class.
If your going to have 2 fleets worth of carriers you need 6 to keep them at sea year round. I hope Russian naval command isn't going to build two more carriers just to have them laid up like the Admiral K.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
If your going to have 2 fleets worth of carriers you need 6 to keep them at sea year round. I hope Russian naval command isn't going to build two more carriers just to have them laid up like the Admiral K.
This assumes the intent is to use the vessels in the same way US uses them. Other countries have carriers and seem to get along with just a couple ok for their needs.
 

Big-E

Banned Member
This assumes the intent is to use the vessels in the same way US uses them. Other countries have carriers and seem to get along with just a couple ok for their needs.
That has been a question of debate around here. Brazil and the needs for her carrier for example. I think Russia wants to have a little more influence in the world militarily than they have. Every major power has the 3:1 ratio or at least 2:1 as they go about building new ones to get back to 3:1. Russia wanted this option but couldn't afford to keep them. That is why they only have Admiral K as a token show of force. Her performance as a vessle has been made a mockery of by the international naval community.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
This assumes the intent is to use the vessels in the same way US uses them. Other countries have carriers and seem to get along with just a couple ok for their needs.
Thats true - but its also true that no other countries have the luxury of having proper platform redundancy (availability) and change over rates.

the USN is in a position where she doesn't have to worry about degraded presence due to a maint cycle compromising availability. greater time on station, greater capability on station, better persistence issues.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
That has been a question of debate around here. Brazil and the needs for her carrier for example. I think Russia wants to have a little more influence in the world militarily than they have. Every major power has the 3:1 ratio or at least 2:1 as they go about building new ones to get back to 3:1. Russia wanted this option but couldn't afford to keep them. That is why they only have Admiral K as a token show of force. Her performance as a vessle has been made a mockery of by the international naval community.
I remeber driving past Everett in Washington and seeing three carriers tied up in 2000.

Operating carriers is expensive business. US operates them because it lacks bases for staging USAF assets throughout the globe in its own perception of areas of operation. A carrier allows US ground forces to have a small airforce operating anywhere in the World.

Russis, even during its USSR days never claimed this need.

Moreover, its naval doctrine relies of tactics which make carriers very risky to operate. There has been, as I'm sure you are aware, an ongoing debate about the viability of the carrier, particularly a large one, in the face of missile technology developments since the 60s.

Russians see a carrier as another part of a task force with different kind of weapon systems, i.e. the aircraft. Currently due to budgetry restraints it is unable to put a taskforce together for long cruises, nor does it have a need to do so (as was the case with the US carriers in 2000). However the AK does short cruises and conducts training, including a fairly extensive one in the Barents Sea in 2004 that I am aware of.

US Navy is not spending big on deployments either. Although it is the time of the year when many crews are on leave, so not indicative of normal annual deployments, currently only 36% of its ships are underway, and this includes
USS Enterprise (CVN 65) - Atlantic Ocean
USS Nimitz (CVN 68) - Pacific Ocean
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) - Persian Gulf
USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) - Atlantic Ocean

DDE is providing support for USS Boxer (LHD 4), USS Dubuque (LPD 8), USS Comstock (LSD 45).

The Ronald Reagan Carrier Strike Group, comprised of USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76), Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 7 and Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 14, returned to San Diego Nov. 21 following a 12 day quarterly sustainment training under the Navy’s Fleet Response Training Plan (FRTP).

When people say 'carrier' they often leave out the other part of its operational title 'task force'. A carrier does not go to seal alone. It certainly does not operate alone tacticaly. When a carrier goes on operational deployment it comes with other vessels (8+), so of the 86 on deployment, 40 would be operating as parts of the CTF/CSG.

Given this, any country that invests in a carrier, even a small one, also invests in its support vessels....quite an investment for most economies and navies.

Russia has the capability to support AK in 'blue water', but is there a need?

I also have my doubts about carrier survival if facing long range land based missile threats, but it seems to me this capability is not available to most threat areas as yet.
 

Big-E

Banned Member
Russians see a carrier as another part of a task force with different kind of weapon systems, i.e. the aircraft. Currently due to budgetry restraints it is unable to put a taskforce together for long cruises, nor does it have a need to do so (as was the case with the US carriers in 2000). However the AK does short cruises and conducts training, including a fairly extensive one in the Barents Sea in 2004 that I am aware of.
Thats all true but I have witnessed the state of the Admiral K. and her escorts first hand. In September 04' we were cruising back to Norfolk and I happened to be talking with the com officer when a distress call was received in Russian containing reports of a vessle taking on water. We were scrambled to check it out. Upon inspection we saw a huge oil slick that went for miles. Upon reporting our find we were ordered back. We thought the Russians lost another sub or ship. As it turned out the Admiral K. was oozing oil and several ships were taking on water. The Russian Navy doesn't put together big exercises anymore because of the 04' disaster among other things.

US Navy is not spending big on deployments either. Although it is the time of the year when many crews are on leave, so not indicative of normal annual deployments, currently only 36% of its ships are underway, and this includes
USS Enterprise (CVN 65) - Atlantic Ocean
USS Nimitz (CVN 68) - Pacific Ocean
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) - Persian Gulf
USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) - Atlantic Ocean
That fits perfectly with the 3:1 ratio. Unless we are conducting an invasion that is what it always is.

Russia has the capability to support AK in 'blue water', but is there a need?
Admiral K can't support herself... her airwing only practices on deck once every 7 years. The airwing is full of retirees. When the late Admiral Ks air wing commander General Timur Apakidze crashed they lost a valuable asset to carrier aviation. I pray they can get more practice time or more untrained avaitors will plunge to their death.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Admiral K can't support herself... her airwing only practices on deck once every 7 years. The airwing is full of retirees. When the late Admiral Ks air wing commander General Timur Apakidze crashed they lost a valuable asset to carrier aviation. I pray they can get more practice time or more untrained avaitors will plunge to their death.
Her last sortie resulted in the death of 2 lead aviators, major engine failures which required the escorts to also slow down to a crawl speed and a grounded air wing. the aircraft are unable to carry full loadouts due to design restrictions

That vessel is going nowhere in a hurry.
 

Big-E

Banned Member
Yes, there are rumours of a refit, but nothing official. This is why I was surprised by the announcement of plans for two more carriers to be commenced!
Honestly if I was heading up the project I would call for decom of Admiral K. upon entry of the lead ship of this class. I would station both of these carriers in NSF and make them to be highly servicable and in quick time. If you make a wonder of engineering it might be possible to field one of the two carriers with little lead time...

Heres to hoping

:cheers
 
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FutureTank

Banned Member
Past practice indicates that AK will be use at least for training for as long as possible.
I would say that it will be refitted, but how long that will take is anyone's guess. Last I heard (navy not my area of interest so much) is that it was undergoing 'engine maintenance'...whatever that means
That was late last year posted on a Russian forum
 
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