Osama Bin Laden dead

[My2Cents]

Apparently they gave him burial at sea (i.e. dumped him into the ocean)?

Do you have a source on that?

It does not seem likely given the deference given to religious customs.

 

[T.C.P]

I find that the idea that the ISI did not know he was there completely idiotic, I mea it was less than a Km from the largest mily academy in the country

 

[webmaster]

Good news, thank God.

Hopefully now the rest of the takfiri vermin will die out soon!

The operation could not have been successful without the help of Pakistani intelligence... political government is too busy to care what happens though.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It is the begining of the end game----the leader, the driving / guiding force is dead---it is all downhill from now onwards.

The insurgency might flare up for a while----but in the end---it will just die down from here onwards---.

It is also a clear message to Mullah Umar and his cohorts as to what might be coming to them----Zawaheri knows that he is a dead man----what is he going to do to before he dies---go out with a bang or what----.

Next 30 days to 6 months are going to see this insurgency climax---the sooner the top echelon are taken out---the sooner it would see bottom end would crumble----.

I believe from this day onwards---there must not be any live insurgents taken as prisoners---they need to be taken out on the field---right then and there----to set an example and make the statement that the time has run out for terrorists where ever they might be.

Here are some comments from a person who is close to the pm of pakistan---none of the pak adminstration are going to make a detailed claim of any of their participation or the participation of pak forces or intel services in this operation---it is due to the fear of reprisals against those who make the claim and against their families as well from al qaeda.

As it has happened in the past the general commanding officers who actively pursued taliban and al qaeda during service---got targetted after retirement or during a period of lapse in security detail.

The concerned parties know what the pak and U S participation in this action is---so for the time being it will stay as such.

I believe in due time---the information will leak out as to what happened and who did what---and there will be videos as well---.

Bottomline---the U S has their man under six foot of ground---oh excuse me----a mile underwater and that is what counts.

This terrible miserable man---a man who was expelled from the country of his birth---a homeless man without a nation---who has brought untold miseries, death and destruction in the lives of hundreds of thousands of people all over the world is no more----gone---just like that---a double tap---and the lights went out.

 

[STURM]

IfGood thing the US troopers gave no quarter and finished him off unceremoniously like a dog.

And that's precisely what his followers would have wanted and expected. It's adds to his image and from an Al Qaeda PR prespective it sure beats being caught in a spider hole and shackled like Saddam was.

They should've killed his entire family, too, as a warning to the other Osama-wannabes.

It would probably have had a reverse effect and would have led to more would be suicide volunteers. Most of his immediate familiy anyway, including his first 2 wives and some sons left when he was in Afghanistan. I;m sure what happened to the son who married Mohd Atef's daughter shortly after the USS Cole attack.

I don't get why the helicopter that had a beakdown was destroyed by it's crew. This happened in an urban enviroment in a country that is supposedly an ally not in some remote location in hostile territory. Even if it had sensitive comms or other stuff on board it could have been guarded until later retrieval. Then again I supposed the helicopter had to be destroyed as the raiding party had entered Pakistan uninvited.

 

[SABRE]

Hi,

It is the begining of the end game----the leader, the driving / guiding force is dead---it is all downhill from now onwards.

I hope its not a long end.

The insurgency might flare up for a while----but in the end---it will just die down from here onwards---.

I suspect the insurgency would flare up but will be short lived. However, the megnitude is going to be quite huge. Its going to be more troublesome for Pakistan.

It is also a clear message to Mullah Umar and his cohorts as to what might be coming to them----Zawaheri knows that he is a dead man----what is he going to do to before he dies---go out with a bang or what----.

Zawaheri's death will put stop to the global strategic cell of Al-Qaeda. However, I don't see quick end to regional cells, especially in Middle East. Global terrorism was the objective of what I have referred to as global strategic cell. The regional cells focus more on leadership assassination and regime change.

Mullah Umar is altogether a different story. He still has strong influence in and on Afghanistan and has more political standing unlike UBL & Zawaheri. Assassinating him might bring the Afghan war to its knees as the recently achieved objectives will be lost.

Next 30 days to 6 months are going to see this insurgency climax---the sooner the top echelon are taken out---the sooner it would see bottom end would crumble----.

Not that quick.

 

[praveen007]

i m quit relef as that bugger is now dead.
But his death had started a problem for pakistan as this might start some reteliratry terrorist strikes

 

[MastanKhan]

Then again I supposed the helicopter had to be destroyed as the raiding party had entered Pakistan uninvited.

Sir,

The raiding party was not un-invited---the mountain range between pak and afg---most of the places you can't cross it flying a helicopter---.

Secondly----as the fire fight started and the helicopter went down----no resuce team arrived on the scene---they were kept away from the location----. No security forces arrived to see what was happening at that location----.

I will put it this way---even if there was not a single american operative involved and all the work was done by the pak forces---nobody in pakistan would want to take credit of it under the current circumstances----. No one wants their whole familes and tribes obliterated by suicide bombers and madder than hornet al qaeda operatives----so u s sepc forces---enjoy the glory.

Rahman Malik cannot find a place to hide as of 4 hours ago-----that is from sopmeone from the inner circle.:daz

 

[GermanHerman]

The helicopter crash was supposedly a mechanical failure, not a result of enemy fire.

Yeah of cause... it's always mechanical failure, never enemy fire.

... I am going to mark this day on my calendar & celebrate it every year, to remember all the brave soldiers killed fighting the war on terror.

Adolf Hitlers death was also anounced on a first of May. Don't forget all the heroes who fought in the previous wars!

Al-Qaeda has lost many irreplaceable top men over the last few years, if we can take out al-Zarqari they may well disingrate internally and vanish up there own rectum..:laugh

One man and one gun is enough to spread terror. Remember the Washington-Sniper, no network needed to spread fear and terror, to paralyse a whole region.

OBL living in a mansion 700 m from Pakistan's military academy and pretty close to their military hospital. Weren't there reports that OBL has kidney disorders and frequently needs dialysis ?

Yes, just like there have been rumors that OBL was living in a pakistani mansion protected by the ISI...

The operation could not have been successful without the help of Pakistani intelligence... political government is too busy to care what happens though.

Or maybe the ISI is the only reason OBL could survive so long...

Good thing the US troopers gave no quarter and finished him off unceremoniously like a dog. They should've killed his entire family, too, as a warning to the other Osama-wannabes.

People like you disgust me. Wishing dead to women: Can you decide if you love someone or not? To wish dead to children: Can you choose who your parents are? Shame on you!





and now:

Congratulations to the US of A!

 

[HKP]

congrat to JSOC for a job well done. Good team work and the mission to eliminate Al Qaeida must be on a continous basis with all allies involved.

 

[webmaster]

Or maybe the ISI is the only reason OBL could survive so long...

Please explain, what could Osama give to ISI that they didn't already have? What use is a man suffering from kidney disease to ISI? If you were in ISI's position, would you care for such man?

If ISI can sever ties with entity like Taliban (afghanistan) then Osama is just loose change. It was ISI who captured Khaled Sheikh Mohamed, and countless others who were sent to Gitmo... so, why would you give up his associates and not him? Thats like knocking down walls and trying to hold the roof up, it doesn't make any sense and folks need to stop creating fables out of misinformation.

Lets make one thing clear, ISI was not baby sitting him and he didn't survive that long with their help. ISI is an intelligence agency, like many others in the world, NOT God as some folks make it look like it is.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but not to refute common sense and logic.

 

[Shock]

Chinese Media says Pakistani forces got ‘Bin Laden!’ :coffee

Chinese Media says Pakistani forces got ‘Bin Laden!’ | Defense & Security News at DefenseTalk

 

[NICO]

I'm not a big conspiracy believer but I did find interesting that DefenceTalk put up the story from Pakistan that Pak forces killed Osama. Still is strange that it took them so many years to find him when he was that close, the Pak. version seems more like they bumped into him by accident. Not sure I buy their story or why then give body of Osama up to the US? Just not to be seen as they killed him? (by accident?) Why then send in 2 birds to pick up a dead body in the middle of the night? So Pakistan just called and said "hey just pick him up we don't want him"? Why did the story break out so fast (next DAY!) in Pakistan that their forces REALLY got him not the US if Pak Gov/military didn't want to be seen as they killed him? It almost seems they want to take credit without taking any of the "blame"? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

There is still a lot of open ends here though, more than likely we will never know the truth. If you believe US version, how come US helicopters flew that long inside Pak. with them not knowing? Or Pakistan forces knew, maybe asked to look the other way or they just were asleep?

What happened to the helicopter that crashed? Was it mechanical failure or was it shot up? Officially it was mechanical but really?

Where did this mission start? Afghanistan, Pakistan or Carl Vinson where the body was disposed of? SEALS operate in small teams but 16 SFs to take out the most wanted guy in history in a decent size complex seems a bit small and only 2 birds? Was there back up in the air? Rumors are flying that maybe some drones were in the area.

Also a bit strange, the animation that is being shown on MSNBC shows the troops killing everyone outside. I know it isn't 100% proof but then why are the video we see of the inside of the building and room is full of blood, indicating that someone or more were shot inside not outside? I don't think it is much as we know so little.

Did we kill everyone? Read someone hid behind a woman, maybe or not it was Osama? reports said the wife identified him, was she killed? was there more than one woman? read also that more members were in the compound but not taken? seems a bit strange to me to leave people behind. Wouldn't it make sense to capture everybody to make sure nobody important was left behind? Also if that is true, where are those people now? Did Pakistan forces make arrest/detain them for questioning? If Pakistan did the job, why leave behind family members as witnesses? Seems a bit conspiratorial, hopefully we will get more info....

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

How often we find out that there are child molesters living right next door to us for years---or there is a Jeffrey Dahmer living next door for 10---15 years---.

It is very simple---if you are a tree---you will hide in a forest----if you are a rock---then maybe a riverbed or a mountain---but if a person then amongst people---.

It was assumed that he would have a large security force with him---but he didnot---that would be a telltale sign---he just did the opposite of what everyone was saying----. This compound was a perfect hiding place or him----high boundary walls that you cannot peek inside----large compound that you can walk around without being seen----.

So what is surprising about this scenario---nothing---it all very natural----. Many a years ago---I wrote on another forum that he would be a a very large residentoial housing in a large city---and it would not be surprising at all.

Any pakistanis on this board will tell you that quite a few residential building have very high boundary walls---and gates that you can't peek through----.

The strategic thing to understand is that there was no foot traffic,or any other kind of traffic going into or out of the building----but just the regular household people---. OBL was not taking strolls on the blvd in the evening with his dog on a leash----.

Even al qaeda didnot know the compound was under attack---nobody came to his rescue----there was no al qaeda army protecting him---there were no al qaeda troops in the neighbouring viccinity---.

People suddenly become so knowledgeable---but how many of you living in a house in the west know that how many people are living in a house five houses down or up the street---I have no clue who live next door to my house on one side---I have no clue who and how many live two houses over----I wouldn't be able to recognize them if I saw them in the grocery store----well OBL his picture everywhere can be recognized.

 

[webmaster]

Nico,

That story is attributed to Xinhua. Its information, news report, so nothing wrong with it.

Another thing to remember about Abbottabad is that its a vacation town and those who come there don't really stay for long so blending in with local population is much easier.

Electrocuted walls with barb wire is common thing in Pakistan as I am told by a couple of Pakistani friends.

Moreover, I don't think OBL was going around meeting and socializing with the locals so it makes it harder to track someone down who is unable to move around freely without being recognized. I am sure they had couriers and those who went out for necessary things. God knows best.

The absolute truth in this matter is that we don't know the truth.

 

[riksavage]

According to one ME commentator it's the best career move Osama ever made. He's now entered Che Guevara territory and will become the poster child for Jihad activity for future generations. He was actually contributing very little to ongoing operations whilst still alive and isolated, but now he's actually dead his image will still remain a potent recruiting symbol. I expect to see a spike in activity and funding for the organization over the short-term.

Looking forward, all those resources dedicated to hunting him down can now be redeployed to the focus on his lieutenants. It also provides a sense of closure to all those relatives of people killed during 9/11.

One interesting knock-on factor will be the impact on continuing operations in Afghanistan, whether the pressure will now increase to drawdown the military presence much faster. The whole reason for the invasion was to hunt and kill Osama following the Taliban's refusal to cooperate. They can now argue he was outside their control in Pakistan and look for opportunities to negotiate in a vain hope they can hasten a western withdrawal. Those nations whose citizens are against military intervention in Afghanistan will now face increasing domestic pressure to start thinking about an exit plan.

 

[GermanHerman]

Please explain, what could Osama give to ISI that they didn't already have?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but not to refute common sense and logic.

Watched TV lately?

Influence for example. The direct ability to take major influence on the US politics and that my friend is worth quite some high quality political favors.

US of A are pushing PAK around to fight taliban but when they withdraw form Afghanistan the taliban, the Al Quaida und the Jihadists will remain and Pakistan is doing good in reinsurance themselfs with keeping close ties to taliban.
Why shouldn't they keep this ties with Al Quaida?

Sorry but you seem to lack some major understanding of intelligence agencys and geo politcis.

I'm not saying that it is a fact they where protecting him, but it IS a possibility and none of us knows the truth so you shouldn't act like you would.

 

[My2Cents]

Please explain, what could Osama give to ISI that they didn't already have? What use is a man suffering from kidney disease to ISI? If you were in ISI's position, would you care for such man?

Al Qaeda has been acting as part of Pakistan’s tribal forces against India in Afghanistan. They also have not been very active in Pakistan. It is another case similar to ‘good Taliban’ that fight in Afghanistan that the Pakistani Army has avoided attacking, and ‘bad Taliban’ that fight against the Pakistani government.

OBL’s safety may have been part of the price for al Qaeda keeping quiet in Pakistan.

If ISI can sever ties with entity like Taliban (afghanistan) then Osama is just loose change. It was ISI who captured Khaled Sheikh Mohamed, and countless others who were sent to Gitmo... so, why would you give up his associates and not him? Thats like knocking down walls and trying to hold the roof up, it doesn't make any sense and folks need to stop creating fables out of misinformation.

ISI has severed their connections to the ‘bad Taliban’ that attack Pakistani target. They seem more interested in restricting US attacks against the ‘good Taliban’ bases and training areas inside Pakistan. They also seem a lot more effective at hunting down and arresting moderate Taliban leaders that show any inclination for negotiating an end to the conflict if Pakistan does not have a seat at the table, and possibly a veto, than the hard core fight to the end types.

Lets make one thing clear, ISI was not baby sitting him and he didn't survive that long with their help. ISI is an intelligence agency, like many others in the world, NOT God as some folks make it look like it is.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but not to refute common sense and logic.

Baby sit OBL, no. But they probably did not pass on information about this location either. This may also be why they are so angry about the US intelligence operations inside Pakistan, the US found him and appeared to have to have good enough surveillance that they could not get him out in time, so they had to go along or have the truth come out. Al Qaeda is already threatening retaliation against Pakistan.

The other al Qaeda members arrested mostly fall into 3 groups, those who attacked Pakistani interests, low ranking members to make ISI look like it was doing something, and ones that the US had too well tracked to help escape.

Like any country and intelligence agency Pakistan and the ISI have their own agendas, which are different from the US agenda. Keeping the pot boiling in Afghanistan until it was recognized as part of Pakistan’s hinterland and strategic depth and that Indian influence had to be kept out is part of that difference. As I said previously, there was probably some kind of quid pro quo for allowing this operation to go forward at this time.

 

[webmaster]

Oh now YOU make things clear like you know the one and only truth?
The USA are going down, their empire is falling and even if not: Sooner or later they will have to withdraw from the afpak area leaving pak alone with all the mess like they always do. Pak is doing good to have close ties to taliban, it's like insurance.
But not only Taliban are a problem for Pak, al-quaida is one too and what could be a better insurance against them than the service of keeping their "boss" save for so long?
And even if not, having OBL in "custody" gives you quite some political power. You can directly influence the great US of A, look at the TV, look what was happening the whole day. THAT is worth something, you should understand that your goverment would be willing to pay a high political price for something like that...

Realy... you talk like you would know anything about intelligence...
This guys play the big game and they don't have to worry about elections.

I don't say ISI did babysit him, but I say you can't say they didn't either.

Well, I didn't say I know the only truth. I can only use common sense, logic and realities on the ground to base an INFORMED opinion.

Afghan Taliban are not problem for Pakistan, they've never threatened Pakistan, not even after when Pakistan made the decision to be frontline state against war on terror. A TTP on the other hand is a different beast and thats what Pakistan army AND ISI have been fighting but apparently, people forget things like that too soon.

What political power exactly? CIA is operating in Pakistan, JSOC, NATO supply line, drone attacks and frankly speaking political power would mean some self respect and to be able to control what US/NATO/ISAF does in Pakistan. That has not been the case, so your notion that protecting OBL gave ISI, Pakistan army, Pakistan GOVERNMENT a lever against US is baseless to say the least.

Moreover, I would reiterate that for me, it does not make sense to give up his associates, Al-Qaeda operatives to US while protecting OBL, its mind boggling that someone would do that. As I said before, its like knocking the walls down and trying to hold the roof up, its just not possible.

Whatever the backgrounder maybe in this story, the good thing is that he is dead and over with.

 

[NICO]

Nico,

That story is attributed to Xinhua. Its information, news report, so nothing wrong with it.

Another thing to remember about Abbottabad is that its a vacation town and those who come there don't really stay for long so blending in with local population is much easier.

Electrocuted walls with barb wire is common thing in Pakistan as I am told by a couple of Pakistani friends.

Moreover, I don't think OBL was going around meeting and socializing with the locals so it makes it harder to track someone down who is unable to move around freely without being recognized. I am sure they had couriers and those who went out for necessary things. God knows best.

The absolute truth in this matter is that we don't know the truth.

I didn't know the city was kind of a resort, that is a good spot since few people are locals and more transients wouldn't care as much about "strange neighbors!"

I agree with the security. Some friends of mine from Brazil live in a compound with huge walls and security because of the threat of kidnapping. It is quite more common in developing countries to have that than US or Europe. From confidential accounts reported so far, it does appear this house was known for quite a few months if not maybe more than a year to US intel community so it did stand out before they even thought that OBL was there. It seems they had it under 24/7 surveillance for months, might explain why US had to send something as top secret as RQ170 to keep it under constant surveillance.

Reports in US say Pakistan wasn't told about helicopters and weren't detected so why didn't police/military check out all the commotion?

Again another strange thing: US troops were in the compound for 40 to 45 minutes, why Pakistan police or military didn't show up? I mean, common on now!, there aren't that many options, they were told by US to stay away so they had some warning or they knew OBL was there and when the raid hit, they freaking stayed out of the way. You think someone would make a call asking about helicopters and gun fire in the middle of night!

I know we haven't been told the WHOLE story, probably never will but some things don't really add it, IMHO.