Electric Armour Protection

dioditto

New Member
"The Sunday Times January 22, 2006"

Tanks to get anti-missile ‘force field’


THE British Army’s next class of armoured vehicles will be protected by a “force field†of electrified armour that will vaporise rocket- propelled grenades, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has signalled, writes Michael Smith.
The electric armour, invented at the ministry’s scientific research centre, will transform armoured warfare, enabling vehicles to be more lightly protected and more easily moved around the world.

It will also confound repeated claims from military experts that “the tank is dead†because more nimble forces are required for the war on terror.

The new armour will allow western armed forces to regain the upper hand against terrorists and insurgents armed with the ubiquitous RPG7 rocket-propelled grenade, which can penetrate most current heavy armour.

The invention is just as effective against the “shaped charge†roadside bombs used by insurgents in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

The armour is also much lighter, with about two tons of it reckoned to provide protection equivalent to that of 20 tons of conventional armour.

The Army’s Challenger 2 tank, which weighs 62½ tons, and the 24½-ton Warrior armoured vehicle had to be ferried by sea to the Gulf for the Iraq war, a complex process taking many weeks.

The new vehicles — which are expected to enter service early in the next decade — would be smaller and lighter, enabling them to be moved by C-17 Globemaster transport aircraft.

The MoD has now handed a contract to Lockheed Martin, the American company, to make a demonstration version of the British invention.

The electric armour is made up of several layers, the first of which is an earthed bulletproof outer skin. The second skin is live, although insulated, and has several thousand volts of electricity flowing through it, powered by the vehicle’s battery. The third skin is the normal vehicle hull.

When an RPG7 grenade hits a tank with standard armour, its conical warhead fires a jet of hot copper into the target at about 1,000mph. This can penetrate more than a foot of conventional solid steel armour.

On the electric armour, the grenade penetrates the insulation on the live second skin, creating a sudden surge in electricity that vaporises the copper stream in the same way that a surge burns out a fuse wire.

The effect is to leave the inner hull intact and the crew safe, with the vehicle capable of taking repeated hits.



Sounds interesting - does anyone have anymore information in regards this armour technology?


This is basically a glorified "Electric fly zapper" ;)
I would assume there are ways to defeat it... since the central idea is a "highly charged cage", what if the attackers use a "whale hunting" style tactic? A grounded RPG/harpoon with triple warhead that penetrate first armour, while 2nd warhead connects with the cage to drain the voltage, while third warhead penetrate that armour to kill the crews inside. (3rd layer armour is said to be thin as result of armour reduction)

Ofcourse, I am not sure how easy it is to manufacture a triple warhead harpoon style RPG, but the concept to defeat it is the same. As long as there is something connect to the electric armour part and ground to earth, it will render it useless, so the variation could be to just shoot a dual warhead harpoon to connect to 2nd skin, while it is grounded and discharging all of its electricity, any other type of tandem warhead shaped charge HEAT missile would kill it.
 

dioditto

New Member
And ofcourse, there is also the possibility to use that "defense" against the defense itself. If the cage is charged up so enormously that it is able to vaporise the RPG, it can be assume it is pretty large amount of energy. So what if this energy is re-directed back against itself? It could basically fried the crews inside if the 2nd and 3rd layers of armours are connected. Even if it doesn't, it could still damage the charger, rendering it useless.

I found a bit more info about it. There is a picture of it here :
http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1063/topstories/story23.htm
 
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Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
And ofcourse, there is also the possibility to use that "defense" against the defense itself. If the cage is charged up so enormously that it is able to vaporise the RPG, it can be assume it is pretty large amount of energy. So what if this energy is re-directed back against itself? It could basically fried the crews inside if the 2nd and 3rd layers of armours are connected. Even if it doesn't, it could still damage the charger, rendering it useless.

I found a bit more info about it. There is a picture of it here :
http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1063/topstories/story23.htm
Thanks for the link dioditto. What a great idea.

It reminds me of the force fields the Martians used to protect their fighting machines in "War of the Worlds!" I could never work out, though, how they were able to fire their heat rays from inside the force shield whilst it was turned on. I'd write to H. G. Wells and ask if he was still alive!

If you were an infantryman accompanying the vehicle you wouldn't want to be too close when the electricity was turned on!

Cheers
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
And ofcourse, there is also the possibility to use that "defense" against the defense itself. If the cage is charged up so enormously that it is able to vaporise the RPG, it can be assume it is pretty large amount of energy. So what if this energy is re-directed back against itself? It could basically fried the crews inside if the 2nd and 3rd layers of armours are connected. Even if it doesn't, it could still damage the charger, rendering it useless.

I found a bit more info about it. There is a picture of it here :
http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1063/topstories/story23.htm
If the field is charged, imagine what would happen if something that conducts electricity came into contact with it. Like water, for example. Does the armour need to be "turned off" in the rain? Or could the vehicle be disabled with a fire hose? I see a host of problems with having an exposed metal object left constantly charged, which is how I understand the system to work.

It would be interesting to see in operational use though.

-Cheers
 

dioditto

New Member
If you were an infantryman accompanying the vehicle you wouldn't want to be too close when the electricity was turned on!
If the field is charged, imagine what would happen if something that conducts electricity came into contact with it. Like water, for example. Does the armour need to be "turned off" in the rain? Or could the vehicle be disabled with a fire hose? I see a host of problems with having an exposed metal object left constantly charged, which is how I understand the system to work.

It would be interesting to see in operational use though.


The answer to both of your questions, "is it safe to touch../ rain" ....
It is in the original posted article :


The electric armour is made up of several layers, the first of which is an earthed bulletproof outer skin. The second skin is live, although insulated, and has several thousand volts of electricity flowing through it, powered by the vehicle’s battery. The third skin is the normal vehicle hull.

On the electric armour, the grenade penetrates the insulation on the live second skin, creating a sudden surge in electricity that vaporises the copper stream in the same way that a surge burns out a fuse wire.

The effect is to leave the inner hull intact and the crew safe, with the vehicle capable of taking repeated hits.

The armour is made up of several layers like a sandwich. The first layer (outter skin) is EARTHED, thus it is safe to touch the vehicle, and rain won't be an issue. The 1st layer to 2nd layer is insulated ofcourse, and 2nd to the 3rd layer skin is also insulated. The large current is contained in the 2nd layer only, and only when the 1st layer is breached and the offending projectile is in contact with 2nd layer, will the defense be activated (completing the circuit). But I do foresee a problem... if there is someway to breach the 2nd layer through high KE (kinetic energy), then it could be a serious problem for the crews.. as the 2nd layer could complete the circuit with 3rd layer when it is breached. Then the crews would probably be instant "KFC".
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
The answer to both of your questions, "is it safe to touch../ rain" ....
It is in the original posted article :




The armour is made up of several layers like a sandwich. The first layer (outter skin) is EARTHED, thus it is safe to touch the vehicle, and rain won't be an issue. The 1st layer to 2nd layer is insulated ofcourse, and 2nd to the 3rd layer skin is also insulated. The large current is contained in the 2nd layer only, and only when the 1st layer is breached and the offending projectile is in contact with 2nd layer, will the defense be activated (completing the circuit). But I do foresee a problem... if there is someway to breach the 2nd layer through high KE (kinetic energy), then it could be a serious problem for the crews.. as the 2nd layer could complete the circuit with 3rd layer when it is breached. Then the crews would probably be instant "KFC".
Thanks for that dioditto. I should have read the first part of the thread more carefully! :eek:

Cheers
 

DoC_FouALieR

New Member
But I do foresee a problem... if there is someway to breach the 2nd layer through high KE (kinetic energy), then it could be a serious problem for the crews.. as the 2nd layer could complete the circuit with 3rd layer when it is breached.
One way to solve this problem could be to divide the electric armor into several "areas" (like reactive armor..). If one area is compromised, the system automatically deactivate it, but the other remain fonctional.
As for the crew, since the inner hull is earthed, as long as the crew does not touch both the hull and earth, there are no risk (the same thing happens when a car is hit by thunder, as long as passenger stay inside the car, they run no risk).
 

dioditto

New Member
One way to solve this problem could be to divide the electric armor into several "areas" (like reactive armor..). If one area is compromised, the system automatically deactivate it, but the other remain fonctional.
As for the crew, since the inner hull is earthed, as long as the crew does not touch both the hull and earth, there are no risk (the same thing happens when a car is hit by thunder, as long as passenger stay inside the car, they run no risk).
Good point, I was thinking the same of compartmentalise the armours into areas as solution to it. But it would make it extremely difficult to manufacture. Because if you do make the electric armour into areas, it means there will be seams...and you need insulate between the charged plate. Since the armour works by charging to a very high voltage, you would need to have a fairly thick insulations between plate. And THAT would make it a weakness if missile is to penetrate between the plate.

Also, "tandem-charge" type weapon (dual/triple warhead) would still render compartmentalised electric armour useless.
 

Mouse

New Member
The armour is made up of several layers like a sandwich. The first layer (outter skin) is EARTHED, thus it is safe to touch the vehicle, and rain won't be an issue. The 1st layer to 2nd layer is insulated ofcourse, and 2nd to the 3rd layer skin is also insulated. The large current is contained in the 2nd layer only, and only when the 1st layer is breached and the offending projectile is in contact with 2nd layer, will the defense be activated (completing the circuit). But I do foresee a problem... if there is someway to breach the 2nd layer through high KE (kinetic energy), then it could be a serious problem for the crews.. as the 2nd layer could complete the circuit with 3rd layer when it is breached. Then the crews would probably be instant "KFC".
My question is could this complicated system stand the distortion caused by impact of the weapons?

Pardon me if I am being innocent. But since high voltage is involved, It may fully absorb the energy of a missile, but a slight shape change or a crack of the armor could cause the system to fail due to a short circuit or even worse.

Instant of mount the armor on the tank, I think it may have a better use as a gate for the underground stronghold or sth.
 

DoC_FouALieR

New Member
And THAT would make it a weakness if missile is to penetrate between the plate.
Even with high voltages, insulation does not require so much space if you are using the proper materials. Ceramics are good insulator, and besides this, ceramics are used as armor.
 

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
As for the crew, since the inner hull is earthed, as long as the crew does not touch both the hull and earth, there are no risk (the same thing happens when a car is hit by thunder, as long as passenger stay inside the car, they run no risk).

Hate to nit pick, but I think you meant lightning, rather than thunder.:p:

Slightly off topic, the crew compartment would be protected using the principle of a Faraday cage.

Here's an explanation from Wikipedia...

"A Faraday cage or Faraday shield is an enclosure formed by conducting material, or by a mesh of such material. Such an enclosure blocks out external static electrical fields. Faraday cages are named after physicist Michael Faraday, who built one in 1836 and explained its operation.

The electrical charges in the enclosing conductor repel each other and will therefore always reside on the outside surface of the cage. Any external static electrical field will cause the charges to rearrange so as to completely cancel the field's effects in the cage's interior. This effect is used for example to protect electronic equipment from lightning strikes and other electrostatic discharges.

To a large degree, Faraday cages also shield the interior from external electromagnetic radiation if the conductor is thick enough and its meshes, if present, are significantly smaller than the radiation's wavelength. This application of Faraday cages is explained under electromagnetic shielding."

This principle is also the basis of a protective suit used by the people who repair High tension (Voltage) overhead power lines. These lines can carry voltages of 125,000 volts, or more. The suits are made up of a flexible fine wire mesh, interwoven with cotton fibres, so that it is light & flexible.

As stated elsewhere in the thread, ceramics, or even nylon/plastics could be used as an insulation material, making the external casings on either side of the "Hot" electrical layer. Similar principles are used in the construction of electrical transformers, to keep the copper windings away from the solid iron core.

Hope these facts add some depth to the conversation.

Systems Adict

;)
 

DoC_FouALieR

New Member
Hate to nit pick, but I think you meant lightning, rather than thunder
And I thank you, I'm still learning how to speak and write properly!

the crew compartment would be protected using the principle of a Faraday cage.
Yes, that exactly how it works too with the exemple of the car. ;-)
 
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