Comparing PLAN to Indian Navy

sidewinder2006

New Member
aaaditya said:
It was also currently undertaking outfitting of INS Shardul, launched last year.

[admin edit: Off topic, deleted.]http://www.grse.nic.in/images/ev2.jpg
Currently 2 LSTL s are being built at GRSE kolkata. INS Shardul and its sister ship INS Mridul. I've just done a project ik GRSE as a mechanical eng student trainee.
One interesting (or confusing) info I got there that this ships will be armed with Bofors guns !!!!!!!
What kind of Bofors gun ........can anybody confirm ?:confused:
 

kams

New Member
sidewinder2006 said:
Currently 2 LSTL s are being built at GRSE kolkata. INS Shardul and its sister ship INS Mridul. I've just done a project ik GRSE as a mechanical eng student trainee.
One interesting (or confusing) info I got there that this ships will be armed with Bofors guns !!!!!!!
What kind of Bofors gun ........can anybody confirm ?:confused:
Bofors 40mm/60 calibre AA, same as earlier Magar class( just a guess)
 

qwerty223

New Member
Hi, tphuang.
wana ask if it is true that iran made c-802 involved in israel Saar-5 corvettes?
sorry if the question is repeated :)
 

zoolander

New Member
I am pretty sure that is confirmed already.

Do the PLAN and IN have the same club missiles? Since the Brahmos has such long range what kind of targeting system does it use.

Overall are the kilo in the IN or PLAN better
 

kams

New Member
Overall are the kilo in the IN or PLAN better
PLAN, without doubt. All of IN's Kilo's are Type 877 while PLAN's are Type 636. There are rumours that one of the IN's Kilo is Type 636.

As per latest reports, six of IN's Kilos are armed with 3M-14E LACM Klubs. INS Sindhushastra (last of the Kilo inducted) may be armed with 3M-54E Klub
 

aaaditya

New Member
kams said:
PLAN, without doubt. All of IN's Kilo's are Type 877 while PLAN's are Type 636. There are rumours that one of the IN's Kilo is Type 636.

As per latest reports, six of IN's Kilos are armed with 3M-14E LACM Klubs. INS Sindhushastra (last of the Kilo inducted) may be armed with 3M-54E Klub
the indian navy's kilos are upgraded to the type 636 standard,however india was not happy with the original sonar system of the russian type636 kilo's and had them replaced with the indigenously developed sonar system based on the indigenous panchendriya sonar,this sonar system was found to be considerably superior to the sonar on the russian kilo's.
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys check out this article which contains some information on indian navy's future plans,indian navy plans to have atleast 160 warships and 18 submarines as well as 300 aircrafts by the end of the next decade.

iam sorry iam not able to post the link but here is the article.

New Delhi: After the Indian Air Force (IAF), the Indian Navy is looking at acquiring close to 100 aircraft in a mix of fighters, patrol planes and trainers by 2020.

On the shopping list are 40 to 50 MiG-29K fighters, 30 long-range maritime patrol (LRMP) aircraft and 10-15 Hawk advanced jet trainers (AJTs), navy chief, Admiral Arun Praksh told India Strategic magazine in an interview.

According to him, as the IAF was acquiring the Hawk trainers, it was logical for the navy to go in for either the same aircraft or its naval variant, the British-US Goshawk. Both aircraft were under serious consideration and the choice and their number would be finalised by naval headquarters after evaluating the necessary parameters.

The navy needs trainers for the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov it has acquired from Russia and which is due to join the fleet in 2008 as INS Vikramaditya. Ironically, however, the Russians could not extend carrier landing training to the navy and it thus had to go to the US, providing Washington an opportunity to offer it the Goshawk.

Thirty-two Indian Navy pilots have already been assigned to receive carrier takeoff-and-landing training on Goshawks at the US navy's Pensacola Naval Air Station, Florida, where all US naval pilots receive initial and advanced training. The Indian pilots are being sent in batches of four, beginning earlier this year.

“We are essentially committed to buying the Hawk. After the air force run is over, it will be the navy's turn. As for the Goshawk, while Boeing has made an offer, we have to get a formal offer from the US state department. And while there is a change in the US mindset, they often consider these things on a case-to-case basis,Adm Prakash maintained.

Equipped with arrester hook, Goshawk is a strengthened variant for carrier takeoff and landing built by Boeing and BAE Systems with substantial commonality of parts. Boeing is responsible for the forward fuselage and stabilisers, assembly and systems integration, production test flights and maintenance.

BAE Systems (formerly British Aerospace) produces the wings and the centre and rear fuselage while Rolls Royce makes the Adour engines, similar to the ones that power iaf's Jaguars built by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Raytheon provides the simulators.

It may be noted that the IAF, which is buying 66 Hawks from Britain, is responsible for giving advanced fighter training to the Navy. HAL would manufacture two-thirds of these aircraft with progressively indigenous content.

As for the MiG-29Ks, an advanced fourth generation fighter, Adm Prakash said the navy was buying one squadron of these jets right now, but eventually we are talking about 40 to 50 aircraft.He added that the navy was also looking at the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

An aviator and a carrier pilot with 2,500 hours of flying an assortment of aircraft and a veteran of the 1971 India-Pakistan war Adm Prakash said the navy periodically redefined its perspective and requirements.

Accordingly, it was currently looking at eight LRMPs, but by around 2020 their number was expected to go up to 30. Whatever the navy would buy would be done after careful consideration of what is available, what is on board, what is the lifecycle cost, availability of spares and some other parameters.

Given this, the navy might not be able, for instance, to buy an aircraft like the Boeing-737 P-8 MMA (multi mission aircraft) or the Lockheed Martin P-3 Orion if it is not equipped with the best of the avionics and missiles like the Harpoons.

Reliable sources in Washington said the US government is yet to clear the Harpoons for India — although both Boeing and Lockheed Martin have been given the go-ahead to negotiate for the sale of their aircraft. For that matter, the two companies are yet to receive clearance to include their respective radars in the F-18 Super Hornet and F-16 Falcons being offered to the IAF for its sanctioned requirement of 126 multi-role jets.

we have floated an RFP (request for proposal) for the patrol aircraft and we have responses from Lockheed Martin, Boeing, (Russia’s) Ilyushin and Airbus. We currently have five IL-38s but the RFP is for eight more aircraft. We still need more, though. By 2020, we shall need 30 aircraft or so,Adm Prakash said.

Lockheed Martin says it can supply the Orions almost immediately with modifications as required by the Indian Navy. Boeing says its B-737 MMA is a futuristic and faster aircraft, although it will not be in the market before 2009. Despite the timeframe, a Boeing spokesperson said the company was “confident that our offer will meet the India Navy schedule and mission requirements.
 

kams

New Member
aaaditya said:
the indian navy's kilos are upgraded to the type 636 standard,however india was not happy with the original sonar system of the russian type636 kilo's and had them replaced with the indigenously developed sonar system based on the indigenous panchendriya sonar,this sonar system was found to be considerably superior to the sonar on the russian kilo's.
Well I don't know about upgradation to 636 standard, rather I would love to hear about acoustic signatures of Indian Kilo's vs PLAN Kilo from gf0012. He was not impressed (I am putting it mildly).
 

tphuang

Super Moderator
kams said:
Well I don't know about upgradation to 636 standard, rather I would love to hear about acoustic signatures of Indian Kilo's vs PLAN Kilo from gf0012. He was not impressed (I am putting it mildly).
there really is no shame on that. India got its kilos at much earlier time than PLAN got its kilos. And once IN get Scorpenes, it will be much better than anything PLAN has.
 

kams

New Member
tphuang said:
there really is no shame on that. India got its kilos at much earlier time than PLAN got its kilos. And once IN get Scorpenes, it will be much better than anything PLAN has.
Oh No, not the question of shame. Type 877 was what available to us that time and thats what we have and we have to live with it. But I don't want to pretend that they are better than PLAn's Kilo for the sake of arguing. I yield to gf's judgement on submarines any day (until someone prooves him to be wrong ;) ). I follow his comments in stategypage very closely. Appreciate your comments tphaung.
 

aaaditya

New Member
the question that bother's me is how would the hdw type 214 compare with the amur 1650 and the chinese yuan class,i believe that a derivative of the hdw type214 and the amur are in the race for india's second submarine line,while china is inducting the yuan.
 

kams

New Member
aaaditya said:
the question that bother's me is how would the hdw type 214 compare with the amur 1650 and the chinese yuan class,i believe that a derivative of the hdw type214 and the amur are in the race for india's second submarine line,while china is inducting the yuan.
I don't want to venture in to comparing HDW 214 vs Amur 1650 vs Yuan. India may lease some Amur 1650 to cater for her depleting sub. strength till she decides on second line. Remember the first Scorpene is due to enter in to service in 2012, followed by 1 every year. By that time over half of our existing submarines will be retiring. Indian navy is yet to issue a RFP for second line of submarine and as things go in India, we may be looking at 3-4 years by the time the product is selected (2009-2010) and 5-6 years from that point to induction of first submarine (2015-2016). So IN may lease some Amur 1650 to fill the huge gap.
 

aaaditya

New Member
india is non-commital about amur ,and is now looking at the german hdw type214 and the russo-italian derivative of the amur1650(based on the amur design with russian weapons,italian sensors and fuel cells).
 

contedicavour

New Member
It certainly is hard to compare Amur 1650 with U212/214... first of all the Amur is still on the drawing board, then fuel cells technology is evolving real fast (though our technology is a derivative of the German one, so AIP systems may be very similar between the 2 subs)

cheers
 

aaaditya

New Member
contedicavour said:
It certainly is hard to compare Amur 1650 with U212/214... first of all the Amur is still on the drawing board, then fuel cells technology is evolving real fast (though our technology is a derivative of the German one, so AIP systems may be very similar between the 2 subs)

cheers
the first of the amur has already been commissioned in the russian navy it has been named as the sankt petersburg,so amur is no longer a drawing board design.
 

powerslavenegi

New Member
Subs

U 214 is anytime a safe bet for Germans are pioneers in Diesel Electric sub and also the AIP tech.Most importantly India has a mix of both Russian and German subs and hence IN knows better whether to go for the amur or the u 214.Although I wont be surprised If HDW offer be rejected for their invovement in U 209 deal kickbacks in 90's(although we all know kickbacks are a part of every deal ,HDW is perhaps a bit unlucky there).Having said that Scorpenes will start rolling out only by 2012 and hence India will require another Sub line to meet it's reqs.
 

contedicavour

New Member
aaaditya said:
the first of the amur has already been commissioned in the russian navy it has been named as the sankt petersburg,so amur is no longer a drawing board design.
You are right, though I was thinking more of the adaptation of Amur to Italo-Russian AIP cells and different electronics and sensor suite. I'm wondering if differences are visible externally vs the Sankt Petersburg.

cheers
 

kams

New Member
contedicavour said:
You are right, though I was thinking more of the adaptation of Amur to Italo-Russian AIP cells and different electronics and sensor suite. I'm wondering if differences are visible externally vs the Sankt Petersburg.

cheers
I am bit confused here. The deal b/w Fincantieri and Rubin Naval design Bureau is for S-1000 submarine. S-1000 has a displacement of 1000 T and IN is looking for a larger submarine. Rubin indicated that it will bring in some design aspects of Amur. The Russo-italian submarine may be differ significantly from Amur.
 

contedicavour

New Member
kams said:
I am bit confused here. The deal b/w Fincantieri and Rubin Naval design Bureau is for S-1000 submarine. S-1000 has a displacement of 1000 T and IN is looking for a larger submarine. Rubin indicated that it will bring in some design aspects of Amur. The Russo-italian submarine may be differ significantly from Amur.
Fully agree with all that you state.
My understanding is that there is a larger version of S-1000 planned with features similar to Amur/Sankt Petersburg. This design may interest India as 2nd SSK type to complement Scorpene.
Though there's nothing official on this, only rumours, at least AFAIK.

cheers
 

aaaditya

New Member
powerslavenegi said:
U 214 is anytime a safe bet for Germans are pioneers in Diesel Electric sub and also the AIP tech.Most importantly India has a mix of both Russian and German subs and hence IN knows better whether to go for the amur or the u 214.Although I wont be surprised If HDW offer be rejected for their invovement in U 209 deal kickbacks in 90's(although we all know kickbacks are a part of every deal ,HDW is perhaps a bit unlucky there).Having said that Scorpenes will start rolling out only by 2012 and hence India will require another Sub line to meet it's reqs.
hdw has been cleared of all charges,as far as the s1000 is concerned ,it is to be based on the amur design ,but will be fully modular and mission adaptable in construction and would be available in different displacements.
 
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