Caucasian Powderkeg?
- Thread starter Feanor
- Start date
- Status
The West (specifically the US) only use the "democracy and human rights" speech to pressure friendly and unfriendly autocratic regimes and unfriendly democracies. It has absolutely nothing with the set of "morals" they constantly talk about and label as "Western Values" (as if non-Westerners have no morals or values).
The US can't do much. If the reports about Russians establishing air-superiority then the US can't even ship arms to Georgia.
All Georgian airports are reportedly damaged, so it would be very hard to ship anything.
Edit: Btw, Georgia official median are just not sane. They tell whole S. Ossetia (with Tskhinvali ) is controlled by georgian troops, all roads up to N. Ossetia are destroyed and russian troops cant cross the border... the few which managed to be in S.Ossetia are concentrated around Java village with remained Osstian troops... Take that for what it worth.
Last edited:
FluffyThoughts
Member
Baku(Azerbaijan) - Georgia - Turkey
Chrom,
The is a major oil pipe-line via these nations (and diverted around the Armenian state). Strangely it was blown-up a few days ago.
Do not confuse what may be militarily sensible with what is geo-politically acceptable. Unfortunately real-politik is more than a theory...!
Chrom,
The is a major oil pipe-line via these nations (and diverted around the Armenian state). Strangely it was blown-up a few days ago.
Do not confuse what may be militarily sensible with what is geo-politically acceptable. Unfortunately real-politik is more than a theory...!
Nothing strange. If Georgia already planned attack, they may have destroy it themselves. . BTw, last month 4 terroristic acts were executed in russian Sochi - future Olympic place. There are 2 versions: these are either Georgian terrorists or Abhkhazian terroristsChrom,
The is a major oil pipe-line via these nations (and diverted around the Armenian state). Strangely it was blown-up a few days ago.
Do not confuse what may be militarily sensible with what is geo-politically acceptable. Unfortunately real-politik is more than a theory...!
By that, it is entirely possible what Abkhazian or Ossetian "terrorists" have blown mentioned pipeline to reduce oil supply for Georgia.
Btw, http://www.translate.ru/url/tran_ur...&autotranslate=on&psubmit2.x=65&psubmit2.y=14
a translate of that http://www.newsgeorgia.ru/geo1/20080808/42294301.html
official Georgian claim.
FluffyThoughts
Member
Posted from WAB:
[http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/current-affairs/46077-russian-tanks-enter-south-ossetia.html]
Unread Today, 14:11 PM #11 (permalink)
Kalashnikov
Regular
Join Date: 08-03-08
Location: All Over
Posts: 26
Country: [Russian Federation]
Russia has turned into this big bully throwing its weight around in the Baltic, against the Ukraine, in the Caucuses. Russia has territorial ambitions and an ugly long-term global geopolitical strategy.
Many Russians still feel their pride dented due to their perceived defeat in the cold war. Russians feel victimized, exploited and humiliated by the west throughout history, just as the Chinese do. A nation with the victims’ mindset and a rabid feeling of wanting to exact revenge is dangerous.
The cold war mindset still dominates the Kremlin and Putin and his top henchmen much have been itching to show the world that Russia can stand up for itself. The Russians have frequently launched military campaigns against its neighbors to prove its masculinity to itself throughout history. How could a tiny nation of Georgia ever have the stomach for a military conflict with Russia unless all options had run out?? The invasion of Georgia and the Western alliance's lack of spine to stand up for Georgia will make the Russians feel "hey, we are back to being a world power again."
This is a disgrace and a show of naked aggression. I am afraid the US is already preoccupied elsewhere (Iraq, Afghanistan) and its allies too weak to respond, except maybe issue condemnation on paper. I hope that an all out war is averted and the breakaway regions of Ossetia and Abkhazia are returned to Georgia. If this is not stopped then maybe Russian tanks will roll into Lithuania, Ukraine, or Azerbaijan next. It might just as well the beginning of the new Russian empire.
Nothing is as simple as we assume. Let's hope that a cease-fire will be put in place.... :unknown
[http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/current-affairs/46077-russian-tanks-enter-south-ossetia.html]
Unread Today, 14:11 PM #11 (permalink)
Kalashnikov
Regular
Join Date: 08-03-08
Location: All Over
Posts: 26
Country: [Russian Federation]
Russia has turned into this big bully throwing its weight around in the Baltic, against the Ukraine, in the Caucuses. Russia has territorial ambitions and an ugly long-term global geopolitical strategy.
Many Russians still feel their pride dented due to their perceived defeat in the cold war. Russians feel victimized, exploited and humiliated by the west throughout history, just as the Chinese do. A nation with the victims’ mindset and a rabid feeling of wanting to exact revenge is dangerous.
The cold war mindset still dominates the Kremlin and Putin and his top henchmen much have been itching to show the world that Russia can stand up for itself. The Russians have frequently launched military campaigns against its neighbors to prove its masculinity to itself throughout history. How could a tiny nation of Georgia ever have the stomach for a military conflict with Russia unless all options had run out?? The invasion of Georgia and the Western alliance's lack of spine to stand up for Georgia will make the Russians feel "hey, we are back to being a world power again."
This is a disgrace and a show of naked aggression. I am afraid the US is already preoccupied elsewhere (Iraq, Afghanistan) and its allies too weak to respond, except maybe issue condemnation on paper. I hope that an all out war is averted and the breakaway regions of Ossetia and Abkhazia are returned to Georgia. If this is not stopped then maybe Russian tanks will roll into Lithuania, Ukraine, or Azerbaijan next. It might just as well the beginning of the new Russian empire.
Nothing is as simple as we assume. Let's hope that a cease-fire will be put in place.... :unknown
mithradates
New Member
Some images
Destroyed Georgian Tanks
Go Russia go!
Edit: Conflict was started by Georgians. U.S set this precedence with Kosovo. So now they need to suffer the consequences of their early actions.
Destroyed Georgian Tanks
Go Russia go!
Edit: Conflict was started by Georgians. U.S set this precedence with Kosovo. So now they need to suffer the consequences of their early actions.
Last edited:
FluffyThoughts
Member
How complicated are relationships within the Caucasus...? This was posted on the BBC HYS website
[http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thr...5&edition=1&ttl=20080808201232&forumID=5212�]
Added: Friday, 8 August, 2008, 17:28 GMT 18:28 UK
After the breakup of USSR we thought the evil empire has gone but trust me Russia is the biggest evil empire on the face of this earth, NATO and USA should help Georgia to fight back and teach a lesson to Russian once and for all. Time for action not words, This is a time for West and US to show that they never leave the ally alone in the time of need. I am fully with Georgia and support Georgia against Russia.
Tahir Razvi, Baku Azerbaijan
This could very easily spin out of control. Once we [English] had a navy, but now it is someone-elses-problem. [Waves palm of hand frantically in front of face...!]
[http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thr...5&edition=1&ttl=20080808201232&forumID=5212�]
Added: Friday, 8 August, 2008, 17:28 GMT 18:28 UK
After the breakup of USSR we thought the evil empire has gone but trust me Russia is the biggest evil empire on the face of this earth, NATO and USA should help Georgia to fight back and teach a lesson to Russian once and for all. Time for action not words, This is a time for West and US to show that they never leave the ally alone in the time of need. I am fully with Georgia and support Georgia against Russia.
Tahir Razvi, Baku Azerbaijan
This could very easily spin out of control. Once we [English] had a navy, but now it is someone-elses-problem. [Waves palm of hand frantically in front of face...!]
Russian tanks enter South Ossetia region
This can be a oppurtunity for Russian military to show its strenght to the world and i am pretty sure, they will. This is getting closer and closer to all out war.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7550354.stm
This can be a oppurtunity for Russian military to show its strenght to the world and i am pretty sure, they will. This is getting closer and closer to all out war.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7550354.stm
Last edited by a moderator:
I cant see the point in such quotes. Yes, one anonymous Azerbaijanian (or not, who know?) on some internet forum blamed Russia. So what?
I repeat, Russia dont have enough troops for big campaign right now. So regardless of anything, next week there will be no deep ground operation. There is very high chance what all hostilities will end tomorrow.
FluffyThoughts
Member
Chrom,
Sorry, but I am trying to lay-out the field within the Southern Caucasus.
There are documented alliances between Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan. Armenia is seen as a client-state of Russia, and has an open sore with Azerbaijan (with Ngorno-Karabkh).
Add the Iranians into the equation (as Azeris are Turkic and have territorial qualms with the Persians) and the mess gets messier. [sp?] Throw in the Kurds and Iraqis and you have one-hell-of-a-mess.
Regarding Georgia, I have a reluctant sympathy for Abkhazia, but am unsure about the South Ossettians. Don't the Chechen's run a valley/gorge nearby. Strange bed-fellows you Russians seek to keep.... :shudder
Historically, Osetia was one republic. In soviet times part of it was given to Georgia to easy administrative maintainance as Osetia was geographically divided by mountains. In early 90x, when Georgia gained independence, it attempted to fully clean S. Ossetia from ossetians. That started war, Georgia lost it. In return, Ossetians pretty much drived off most georgians.
Since then S. Ossetia try to unite with N. Osetia and join Russia, or at least to formally gain independence if joining Russia would be impossible for international politic reason. Ossetia always since Ex-USSR times was strong pro-russian as it was the only possible choice survive.
OK, now news: Georgian Su-25 downed by russian or ossetian troops was confirmed. Video was presented on russian 1st channel.
FluffyThoughts
Member
Chrom,
We only get Russia-24 in the UK, and - to be frank - it is naff. Even France-24 is more interesting, and it is dire.
Anyhow, here is a sample of the UK's media-reporting on events in South Ossetia. Hopefully it will give an outsider's view about events...:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...Launches+Offensive+Against+Breakaway+Province
Time to sign-off now. Hope to speak to you tomorrow. TTFN!
We only get Russia-24 in the UK, and - to be frank - it is naff. Even France-24 is more interesting, and it is dire.
Anyhow, here is a sample of the UK's media-reporting on events in South Ossetia. Hopefully it will give an outsider's view about events...:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...Launches+Offensive+Against+Breakaway+Province
Time to sign-off now. Hope to speak to you tomorrow. TTFN!
Look inside and dont say stupidities...Look at Baku,Azerbaijan ...and dont read because that r words of scared man from country with Nagorny Karabakh
Vesti TV channel. Some videos there: http://www.vesti.ru/videos?vid=143324
This one is downed Su-25.
This one is downed Su-25.
OMG!!.. i cought this late!. But seriously Georgia just blew it n the georgia president is really stupid. He is panicking now. They are showing his statment on CNN, and clearly that fool is panicking. Not only is he attempting to get NATO and US to come n save his a**, he even said that this is not an isolated incident, that the problems with Estonia, Ukraine, some midle east counteies.. etc2 demonstrates this. So he's is actively trying to paint russia as the bag guy here and get the US help. yet it was his calculated move to take everyone by suprise and launch an attack on S.Ossetia.
CNN and BBC were just showing what started the conflict. It was a battery of georgian MLRS firing waves and waves of Rockets in the dark night towards the Georgian town. The sky was literary filled with MLRS rockets racing towards the town! And the western news media was painting russia as the aggressor non stop. OMG!.. stop ur tinted eyes reporting.
And Bush was reported to have made a statement supporting the territorial integrity of Georgia!.. Hell that was a big laugh for me. Has he forgotten Kosovo? Or is he that stupid?
I hope Russia teaches Tblisi a lesson. Its actions must not go unpunished. A leadership change is needed in Georgia.
CNN and BBC were just showing what started the conflict. It was a battery of georgian MLRS firing waves and waves of Rockets in the dark night towards the Georgian town. The sky was literary filled with MLRS rockets racing towards the town! And the western news media was painting russia as the aggressor non stop. OMG!.. stop ur tinted eyes reporting.
And Bush was reported to have made a statement supporting the territorial integrity of Georgia!.. Hell that was a big laugh for me. Has he forgotten Kosovo? Or is he that stupid?
I hope Russia teaches Tblisi a lesson. Its actions must not go unpunished. A leadership change is needed in Georgia.
- Status