Brazilian Air Force News and Discussion

[Kasatka]

108 Gripens in 3 batches (3 x 36 = 108)

those numbers make a lot of sense if Brazil is thinking of covering its entire airspace. more so, now that it is actively pursuing a status as regional great power.

btw, are there any news regarding foreign missile procurement programs? say, AIM-120B/C, METEOR, air to surface guided missiles/munitions, etc..?
i'm especially interested to know if there will be any anti ship missiles in brazil's shopping cart.

thanks in advance.

 

[John Fedup]

US simply will not jeopardize relationship with South America biggest economy over F-414, which also means straining realtionship with Scandinavian strongest country, over Brazilian policies which 'say' sympathetic with Russian position in Ukraine.

Relationship with Brazil or Sweden is much more important with what Brazil position on what happen in Eastern Ukraine or Investment in Cuba, or Venezualla. Brazil is simply much more important for US then the feeling of Ukrainian government or Republicans hard liners. Something that the majority of Moderat-Right Wingers Republicans understand. Afterall this is Republicans we're talking about...in the end business outweight hawkish-hardliners-tea party thinking for majority of Republicans in congress.

I agree but then again we must consider politicians are perhaps the most feeble minded creatures slithering around the planet.

 

[swerve]

those numbers make a lot of sense if Brazil is thinking of covering its entire airspace. more so, now that it is actively pursuing a status as regional great power.

btw, are there any news regarding foreign missile procurement programs? say, AIM-120B/C, METEOR, air to surface guided missiles/munitions, etc..?
i'm especially interested to know if there will be any anti ship missiles in brazil's shopping cart.

thanks in advance.

The FAB currently has 102 F-5EM & AMX, & has just retired 12 Mirage 2000, so buying 108 Gripen would be just maintaining numbers, more or less.

No sign of AIM-120 or Meteor, AFAIK. Derby's in service, & there's reported to be a joint project for a new BVR AAM with S. Africa.

 

[Kasatka]

The FAB currently has 102 F-5EM & AMX, & has just retired 12 Mirage 2000, so buying 108 Gripen would be just maintaining numbers, more or less.

No sign of AIM-120 or Meteor, AFAIK. Derby's in service, & there's reported to be a joint project for a new BVR AAM with S. Africa.

In terms of numbers they indeed seem to barely catch up (if they retire they entire fleet of AMX's and F-5's). But capability wise its a quantum leap from what Latin America is accustomed to.

Also, idt they will phase out their (entire) AMX force anytime soon. Last time I heard, they where even adding some sort of PGM capability to that aircraft... I think the standard is A-1M... Not sure if wikipedia is correct, i heard this form other sources, but didn't know the name of the upgraded version.

Thanks for the info regarding missile procurement/development. I'll have to dig into that South African BVR missile deal later.. wasn't even aware of it, nice find.

 

[RobWilliams]

Following the decision of the Brazilian Government to implement austerity measures, this has impacted their defence budget.

A decision to lease a dozen Gripen C/D aircraft from Sweden has - reportedly - been overturned and no such undertaking is currently planned.

Brazil drops plans for Gripen C/D lease - IHS Jane's 360

One direct driver for this was to fill the air coverage gap left by retiring their Mirage 2000's especially the need for security during the 2018 World Cup.

Presumably they intend to rely on the F-5 to provide airspace security and i'd wager greater numbers of pilots will be sent to Sweden for training.

 

[John Fedup]

Following the decision of the Brazilian Government to implement austerity measures, this has impacted their defence budget.

A decision to lease a dozen Gripen C/D aircraft from Sweden has - reportedly - been overturned and no such undertaking is currently planned.

Brazil drops plans for Gripen C/D lease - IHS Jane's 360

One direct driver for this was to fill the air coverage gap left by retiring their Mirage 2000's especially the need for security during the 2018 World Cup.

Presumably they intend to rely on the F-5 to provide airspace security and i'd wager greater numbers of pilots will be sent to Sweden for training.

I assume government cutbacks are a concern to Embraer's KC-390 program.

 

[swerve]

In terms of numbers they indeed seem to barely catch up (if they retire they entire fleet of AMX's and F-5's). But capability wise its a quantum leap from what Latin America is accustomed to.

Also, idt they will phase out their (entire) AMX force anytime soon. Last time I heard, they where even adding some sort of PGM capability to that aircraft... I think the standard is A-1M...

Yes, but you have to run to stand still. If you don't upgrade your capability, you'll be left behind. Every one else will be upgrading.

AMX won't retire soon, but nor will all the Gripens be delivered soon.

Italian AMX have had PGMs (LGBs) since the 1990s, I think, & didn't Brazil add that capability to the AMX some years ago?

 

[RobWilliams]

Here's a nice Aviationist article and video about Brazilian AMX' doing bombing runs. Can't speak to when they first got it myself.

The Aviationist » Great video showing Brazilian air force jets on a training bombing mission

I'm quite fond of Brazil's Air Force, quite a variety amount of capability. Nobody is invulnerable to defence budget pressure.

 

[RobWilliams]

A Brazilian Air Force spokesman has said that the service is still considering leasing Gripen C/D from the Swedish Air Force, despite cancelling such an arrangement in June.

Brazil still considering Swedish Gripen C/D fighters - IHS Jane's 360

Brazil has (reportedly) released the initial batch of weapons and accessories it wants its future Gripen fleet to be armed with. These include:

• A-Darter SRAAM (IR) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-Darter
• IRIS-T SRAAM (IR) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRIS-T
• SPICE-250 (250lbs) and SPICE-1000 (1000lbs) bomb kits (EO/GPS) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_(bomb)
• Rafael RecceLite2 tactical recce pods http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/5/955.pdf
• Litening G4 targeting pods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LITENING#Litening_G4

A-Darter and IRIS-T have quite a lot of overlap, both IR short range missiles with broadly similar (20-25km) ranges. The South African Air Force ordered a handful of IRIS-T to use in the short term until A-Darter comes into service, but you'd think that considering a production order for the SAAF was signed in March this year, that it wouldn't be an issue for the Brazilians.

Either way, seems a reasonable list. Basic A2A and A2G capability with associated pods.

 

[ADMk2]

A Brazilian Air Force spokesman has said that the service is still considering leasing Gripen C/D from the Swedish Air Force, despite cancelling such an arrangement in June.

Brazil still considering Swedish Gripen C/D fighters - IHS Jane's 360

Brazil has (reportedly) released the initial batch of weapons and accessories it wants its future Gripen fleet to be armed with. These include:

• A-Darter SRAAM (IR) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-Darter
• IRIS-T SRAAM (IR) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRIS-T
• SPICE-250 (250lbs) and SPICE-1000 (1000lbs) bomb kits (EO/GPS) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_(bomb)
• Rafael RecceLite2 tactical recce pods http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/5/955.pdf
• Litening G4 targeting pods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LITENING#Litening_G4

A-Darter and IRIS-T have quite a lot of overlap, both IR short range missiles with broadly similar (20-25km) ranges. The South African Air Force ordered a handful of IRIS-T to use in the short term until A-Darter comes into service, but you'd think that considering a production order for the SAAF was signed in March this year, that it wouldn't be an issue for the Brazilians.

Either way, seems a reasonable list. Basic A2A and A2G capability with associated pods.

No radar guided air to air missile capability seems a tad limited. By the time they get these, advanced AMRAAM variants, Meteor and upgraded Derby BVR weapons will be available and likely already integrated on the Gripen platform.

A small no risk purchase of 100 or so AMRAAM's would completely round out this capability and give similar sort of coverage to SAF's acquisition of IRIS-T until A-Darter was ready, until the joint Brazil / SA medium range weapon is ready.

Seems a no brainer...

 

[RobWilliams]

No radar guided air to air missile capability seems a tad limited. By the time they get these, advanced AMRAAM variants, Meteor and upgraded Derby BVR weapons will be available and likely already integrated on the Gripen platform.

A small no risk purchase of 100 or so AMRAAM's would completely round out this capability and give similar sort of coverage to SAF's acquisition of IRIS-T until A-Darter was ready, until the joint Brazil / SA medium range weapon is ready.

Seems a no brainer...

I guess that's the plan for a later weapons package, they're not going to be getting delivered until 2019 at the earliest. I think Meteor was supposed to go active on Gripen at some point this year. Funny thing is that looking at the FABs current missile inventory, with the reported purchase of IRIS-T, they'd have 6 different IR SRAAMs in inventory.

Upgraded Derby seems very likely, they already operate Derby on their F-5's which will be parting when Gripen comes online.

 

[swerve]

No radar guided air to air missile capability seems a tad limited. By the time they get these, advanced AMRAAM variants, Meteor and upgraded Derby BVR weapons will be available and likely already integrated on the Gripen platform.

A small no risk purchase of 100 or so AMRAAM's would completely round out this capability and give similar sort of coverage to SAF's acquisition of IRIS-T until A-Darter was ready, until the joint Brazil / SA medium range weapon is ready.

Seems a no brainer...

Or a small no risk purchase of Meteor, which has already been integrated on Gripen A-D, & should be fully integrated on Gripen E by the time Brazil starts putting it into service.

 

[ADMk2]

Or a small no risk purchase of Meteor, which has already been integrated on Gripen A-D, & should be fully integrated on Gripen E by the time Brazil starts putting it into service.

Yep, absolutely. AMRAAM was just used as an example, as it is already integrated on the platform of choice, as well as the mooted interim leased C/D models.

 

[RobWilliams]

Perhaps they're willing to forgo those sorts of capabilities for a piece of national workshare. The workshare for Meteor is already pretty well defined between UK, Italy, France and Germany. The UK is trying to get Japan in for their seeker technology.

I get that the IRIS-T buy bucks that idea, but when you look at what weapons involved in the Brazilian inventory, they have some form of workshare in a significant number of them. When the F-5M leaves service, it increases.

Or it could simply be money, they're cutting their budget and they figure that they've got probably another two years (guessing it could take another two for deliveries to start arriving).

 

[ADMk2]

Perhaps they're willing to forgo those sorts of capabilities for a piece of national workshare. The workshare for Meteor is already pretty well defined between UK, Italy, France and Germany. The UK is trying to get Japan in for their seeker technology.

I get that the IRIS-T buy bucks that idea, but when you look at what weapons involved in the Brazilian inventory, they have some form of workshare in a significant number of them. When the F-5M leaves service, it increases.

Or it could simply be money, they're cutting their budget and they figure that they've got probably another two years (guessing it could take another two for deliveries to start arriving).

Or they are prepared to simply wait for the Marlin BVR missile...

Denel Dynamics to test Marlin BVR missile technology in September | defenceWeb

 

[RobWilliams]

That's probably it, a BVR missile partially derived from A-Darter and which will end up being integrated on Gripen regardless.

They'll probably get a decent chunk of workshare.

 

[ADMk2]

That's probably it, a BVR missile partially derived from A-Darter and which will end up being integrated on Gripen regardless.

They'll probably get a decent chunk of workshare.

Yep, the initial version seems analogous to early AMRAAM variants with a future ramjet powered version ala Meteor.

Should do the trick as long as it is funded and developed sufficiently.

 

[RobWilliams]

Which there isn't a guarantee of, at least from a Brazilian perspective. Their economical situation resulted in a 25% defence budget cut and I haven't seen much about what that has resulted in. I know it caused waves about financing Gripen which have been fixed.

Still, would sound like standard Brazilian MO to me. Pick a technically less capable (compared to latter blocks of AIM-120 and Meteor) system for a lower price that fits the budget for a chunk of national work share and development to create an indiginous capability.

That's how you use ToT to generate capability in house, IMO.

 

[Ananda]

Brazil to double air fleet as part of $10.6 billion investment

For the Brazilian Air Force, the plan involves the production and acquisition of 34 F-39 Gripen fighters.

www.defensenews.com

Bit long time to update Brazil AF program. After 2014 contract for 36 Gripen, Brazil seems going to exercise another batch of 34 Gripen. This seems in line with the plan for Gripen to completely replace their F-5.

The new administration plan also include for 9 more C-390 and 2 Airbus A-330 converted to MRTT.

 

[swerve]

The A330 plans have been around for a while. Two A330 were bought in early 2022 & the first was delivered to the Brazilian air force in July 2022, for use as a transport pending conversion to MRTT. Reports at the time said that conversion was expected to begin in June this year, but Brazil isn't yet listed on the Airbus website as an MRTT customer, so presumably a contract hasn't been signed yet. 10 customers (including the NATO consortium) are listed.

9 more C-390 would increase the order to 28, i.e. back to the original number.