MBT for defensive role in urban area.

[fixcomm]

hello everyone, this is my first post here so i hope you guys can bear with me aight

Actually i'm juz wandering, are there any tactics in regards with the use of MBTs for defensive role in urban area? MBTs' role or tactics during offensive or defensive out in open (dessert, country side, etc..) are easilty to understand, same thing with tactics in using MBT to capture towns or cities (as the U.S. Army had demonstrated it in GWII). To my knowledge, there arent any battle between MBT against MBT in urban since WWII. I saw WWII footage of Tiger tanks in ambush position inside Berlin, however i doubt such tactics can still be employ these days. But one cant help wandering if such tactics still exists, if does how do you actually employs it.

hope u guys can bright-up me a bit

 

[aaaditya]

hello everyone, this is my first post here so i hope you guys can bear with me aight

Actually i'm juz wandering, are there any tactics in regards with the use of MBTs for defensive role in urban area? MBTs' role or tactics during offensive or defensive out in open (dessert, country side, etc..) are easilty to understand, same thing with tactics in using MBT to capture towns or cities (as the U.S. Army had demonstrated it in GWII). To my knowledge, there arent any battle between MBT against MBT in urban since WWII. I saw WWII footage of Tiger tanks in ambush position inside Berlin, however i doubt such tactics can still be employ these days. But one cant help wandering if such tactics still exists, if does how do you actually employs it.

hope u guys can bright-up me a bit

i dont think it would be possible with modern day battle tanks which are heavy weight and require a lot of space for manouverability, in a city it's manouverability will be restricted by the space available.:coffee

 

[Snayke]

Well, I doubt it would have a role in urban areas unless there were enemy tanks in the area. You'd be better off having hummers patrolling urban areas.

 

[aaaditya]

Well, I doubt it would have a role in urban areas unless there were enemy tanks in the area. You'd be better off having hummers patrolling urban areas.

a better option (than battle tanks) for defending an urban area would be to use a light tank destroyer(it would around 25 tons) like rooikat(wheeled) or cv-90-120(tracked),they are smaller,lighter more manouverable with the fire power equivalent to that of a battle tank along with surface to air missile batteries.:coffee

 

[Awang se]

Those who said that tank can't operate in urban area is a same bunch that said tank can't operate in the jungle, which of course prove to be wrong. It's a matter of operational doctrine. you don't use tank in the city the same way you use tank in the desert. There's difficulties of course, but nothing that can't be work out with a proper tactics and a proper supports. We can see right this moment in Iraq how Americans use their tanks quite effectively in the urban areas. I dare say without tank support, the number of US casualties would've past 2000 by now. There's also the chechen conflict to be consider. During the first chechen war, the russian tanks bull their way into Grozny and got themselves massacred. this is the case how the russians use their tanks in the city the same way they planned to storm the plains of Germany. During the second war, we see the tactics change. The attack into the city was preceded by intense air and artillery bombardment and the tanks enter the city properly supported by infantries scouring the rubbles for hidden tank killers. the resistance in the city was crush in the matter of weeks.

 

[Raven_Wing278]

Those who said that tank can't operate in urban area is a same bunch that said tank can't operate in the jungle, which of course prove to be wrong. It's a matter of operational doctrine. you don't use tank in the city the same way you use tank in the desert. There's difficulties of course, but nothing that can't be work out with a proper tactics and a proper supports. We can see right this moment in Iraq how Americans use their tanks quite effectively in the urban areas. I dare say without tank support, the number of US casualties would've past 2000 by now. There's also the chechen conflict to be consider. During the first chechen war, the russian tanks bull their way into Grozny and got themselves massacred. this is the case how the russians use their tanks in the city the same way they planned to storm the plains of Germany. During the second war, we see the tactics change. The attack into the city was preceded by intense air and artillery bombardment and the tanks enter the city properly supported by infantries scouring the rubbles for hidden tank killers. the resistance in the city was crush in the matter of weeks.

i agree with you on the operational doctrine but in some cases proper doctrine wont make the roads wider for your tanks.:coffee
a better option i reckon would be IFV to patrol the city

 

[Pathfinder-X]

Yes tanks are capable of playing an important role in urban warfare, such as providing fire support to infantry squads. However, many armor officers consider using tanks in defensive roles as a waste due to the primary function of tanks. Ever since they were first put into use by the British during WWI, tanks have been offensive assets in the hands of armies around the world. They are designed to quickly shatter enemy lines and clear the path for other types of troops.

As we have learned during wars in the Gulf and Chechnya, attackers usually have air superiority before making their assault on a city. In this case, tanks are vunlerable to gunships and CAS aircrafts.

 

[aaaditya]

Yes tanks are capable of playing an important role in urban warfare, such as providing fire support to infantry squads. However, many armor officers consider using tanks as defensive positions in a city due to the primary function of tanks. Ever since they were first put into use by the British during WWI, tanks have been offensive assets in the hands of armies around the world. They are designed to quickly shatter enemy lines and clear the path for other types of troops.

As we have learned during wars in the Gulf and Chechnya, attackers usually have air superiority before making their assault on a city. In this case, tanks are vunlerable to gunships and CAS aircrafts.

tanks are excellent offensive weapons because of their manouverability and firepower , in jungles they dont require roads,can run over trees and wild animals and there are no buildings,but these limitations are present in an urban environment,there would be houses ,bridges and people (they cant support a tanks weight).
use of tanks in a defencive environment would in urban areas would leave them with less space to manouevre and therefore more vulnerable to enemies attack helicopters.tanks can be effectively used to guard the approach roads to a city .:coffee

 

[driftder]

..... , in jungles they dont require roads,can run over trees and wild animals and there are no buildings,.....

hmm run over trees? Glad you not on my side, mate - footsloggers like us love to see tanks run over trees, stumps or logs. Rather fun to see the tracks get ripped off and if done right, might even see a tank get impaled on a broken tree stump as it goes over it.

As for the part about "they dont require roads" - think again. You can try that no roads needed thing in light jungle, but never in heavy, thick jungle. Do that and you get to clear weeds and jungle vine from your wheels every few miles

 

[Snayke]

What the above said. Every single tree can't be run over by a tank. MBTs can play in defensive roles, of course. But it really depends on the scenario I guess.

 

[aaaditya]

What the above said. Every single tree can't be run over by a tank. MBTs can play in defensive roles, of course. But it really depends on the scenario I guess.

what i want to say is that mbt's can be used in warfare on for defensive purposes.:coffee

 

[Dark Wind]

MBTs in urban area can do the job for defensive depends against "who" and need infantry support to watch for ATs. These forces coupled are often seen in urban zones especially.

So about MBTs for defensive roles in urban zones I truly agree if coupled with infantry support.

 

[Awang se]

As for the part about "they dont require roads" - think again. You can try that no roads needed thing in light jungle, but never in heavy, thick jungle. Do that and you get to clear weeds and jungle vine from your wheels every few miles

That's what they say in vietnam. But in the end, it's tank all the way. Ever heard of a tank ammo called "canister"

 

[Snayke]

I really don't think alerting your enemy that you're in the jungle would be very wise.

 

[Dark Wind]

That's what they say in vietnam. But in the end, it's tank all the way. Ever heard of a tank ammo called "canister"

Canister? Talking about the "tank shotgun ammo"? Heard it was widely used during NAM along with HE rounds.

 

[chaoticsensatio]

MBTs in urban area can do the job for defensive depends against "who" and need infantry support to watch for ATs. These forces coupled are often seen in urban zones especially.

So about MBTs for defensive roles in urban zones I truly agree if coupled with infantry support.

I agree with that, Basically a machine performs as good as the person operating it. so its not a matter of urban, desert or jungle senarios. In my opinion its about how well a coordinated attack is knitted. MTB's like Abrahm, Leopard , AK (Al-Khalid) or any modern tank will be affective if the tanks are supported by close ground strike ACs like A10 , Cobra or apachi hellis. formation would be like this, infantry in the front and close to apcs. And Apcs with Xray vision , night vision and flash bang capibilities. followed by Tanks about at a distance of 100m to 600m to perform as remote artillary for targets inside the buildings and help infantry to remove obsicales like destroyed vehicles , fences etc followed by a communication vehicle to call in air strike. satellite recon, and C130 as frequecy jammers would be a plus point. heat sensing satellite recon would help in locating hidden snipers and shoulder AT. the only problem would be land mines, what is the comparison of numbers of force and the quality of the force committed and engaged into the attack . how affective my formation is? try it on Command and Conquer Generals,

 

[kashifshahzad]

I think this MBT culture must be abolished in this modren era MBT's can hardly move from one place to another there must be some kind of thing which can move quickly must not have that much weight.I think troops having latest latest guns night vision high calorie capsules this thing can work.There must be AC's or choppers which should eliminate major ground targets

 

[aaaditya]

I think this MBT culture must be abolished in this modren era MBT's can hardly move from one place to another there must be some kind of thing which can move quickly must not have that much weight.I think troops having latest latest guns night vision high calorie capsules this thing can work.There must be AC's or choppers which should eliminate major ground targets

all those systems are already available however in the end it all depends to the integration of all these systems and the initiative and the innovation of the commanding officers.:coffee

 

[driftder]

Canister? Talking about the "tank shotgun ammo"? Heard it was widely used during NAM along with HE rounds.

Lots of nicks for canister - broomsweeper or claymore in a tube are some of them. Only protection is never to be caught in front of the blast. They can even get in through bunker slits - bounce right in and richochet around.

Next round to hand would be multi-purpose HE or HE-MP. Good for bunker busting or hard targets short of a MBT.

 

[driftder]

..... how affective my formation is? try it on Command and Conquer Generals,

Huh? OMG a computer game? Ain't so simple laddie - to be an exponent of combined arms warfare, you must know how the various arms operates. For eg, we always have a ATSO from the air force along when we want to call in a air strike - cos he's a pilot and would know how the planes or helos perform.

Next is you forgot about the logistics - combined arms is murder to plan logistics around. Different types of ammo, fuel, spares, medicine, body bags etc. Definitely not a game.