PAK-FA Cancelled???

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Scuttlebut is the Russian, 5th gen PAK-FA progrm has been cancelled.

Russia's next-generation fighter project cancelled

MOSCOW, April 12 (RIA Novosti) - Russian air force commander-in-chief Aleksandr Zelin has announced the cancellation of the $20-billion PAK-FA program after 20 years of escalating costs, technological glitches and redesigns failed to produce a single prototype aircraft.

The PAK-FA, once billed as Russia's next-generation fighter, had consumed $13.9-billion. The estimated cost of each aircraft had soared to $87.2-million from an original target of $30-million.

"It's had a long and troubled history," said Alexei Arbatov, a senior Duma official who heads the lower house committee for defense.

The PAK-FA, a new generation fighter aircraft concept, was designed to be comparable to both the American F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II and has been overtaken by the need to strengthen Russia's strategic nuclear forces.

Acknowledging that the PAK-FA no longer fit into the requirements of Russia, the Air Force said it would rather spend the money on an overhaul of its aviation system. If approved by the Federal Assembly, the funds would be directed instead to buy over 400 additional SU-34, SU-35 and other aircraft and to upgrade and modernize 1,400 aircraft already in service. Surface-to-air missiles also would be a priority.

"It's about having an effective deterrent force," said Air Force Colonel General Alexander Zelin. "It's a big decision. We know it's a big decision, but it's the right decision."

The end of the PAK-FA also reflects an acknowledgement by the Ministry of Defence that it simply cannot afford all the programs it wants. The move underscores the fact that the Ministry of Defence must begin economizing as the cost of new weapon systems increase and demands on military spending grow, industry analysts said.

The Air Force would have spent $20-billion on the PAK-FA program through 2012 without getting aircraft significantly more capable than the upgraded SU-35 it already plans to buy, Air Force officials said.

Some officials of the State Duma reacted angrily to the cancellation.

"I am outraged by the decision to terminate the PAK-FA program given that the Air Force has long argued that it is a critical weapons system that plays a pivotal role in our defence," said State Duma deputy Vladimir Medinsky. "What has changed? And how does the military plan to make up for the lost capabilities?"

Alexei Arbatov, Deputy Chairman of the Defence Committee of the State Duma, said the decision "reflects the difficulty that the services are facing with the cost of modernization requirements now coming to the fore."

The cancellation was a blow to the PAK-FA's prime contractors, Sukhoi and NPO Saturn.

A senior Duma official said the Ministry of Defense expects to have to pay a $450-million to $680-million termination fee to Sukhoi and NPO Saturn.

The program's elimination, however, could benefit the two companies. The Air Force now plans to pour more money into the SU-34 and SU-35, and ramp up the upgrade of aircraft already in service which would keep both companies busy for the foreseeable future.

I got this off annother forum so i cant provide a link to the original source.

If this is indeed true its a landmark moment for the RuAF, and the only 5th gen fighter programs will be in western aligned air forces. Still the $20bn that could be spent on Su-35 & Su-34 would be a huge improvement for the RuAF, probably a smart decission in the short to mid term, again if its true.

 

[irtusk]

most people there seemed to think it was a delayed april fools joke

 

[niteshkjain]

The info is here

Admin Text deleted. No cross forum posting allowed.

If its true its really sad

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

The info is here


If its true its really sad

You cant post links to other forums mate.

I havent been able to find any news so maybe it is a joke. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[RubiconNZ]

I havent been able to find any news so maybe it is a joke. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Whats the link for your article?

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Whats the link for your article?

Found it over at key, and they didnt have a link so its a big mystery. It sounds legit but you would expect more news if a program of this scope was cancelled.

 

[RubiconNZ]

Found it over at key, and they didn't have a link so its a big mystery. It sounds legit but you would expect more news if a program of this scope was cancelled.

Sorry after reading the article again, I saw your disclaimer, very interesting indeed, either damage control by Russia, or maybe a hoax, time will tell i s'pose, the very least some in and around the business should be able to let us know.

 

[windscorpion]

I can't find this on the RIA Novosti website (might not have been put on there yet of course), just a few days ago the site was reporting flight tests will begin next year so this is a bit of a sudden about face...

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080403/102931062.html

 

[Dr Freud]

A wise decision.
"It's about having an effective deterrent force," said Air Force Colonel General Alexander Zelin. "

Russia already has that, manifested in some 2000+ nukes.

Nuff said.

 

[Scorpion82]

I don't really believe that this is true. Let alone that the PAK FA program in its current form is not even 10 years old. The decision to cancel the MiG MFI and Su-47 and to develope a new fighter wasn't made before 1999 and Sukhoi was not contracted before april 2002. Anyway there is also no word lost about the partner India and I hardely doubt they already spent 20 bln $.

 

[qwerty223]

I check RIAN everyday for PAK FA and SU-35 update, i never seen this on 12th.

And if you are a reader or RIAN you will notice it is strange that the article above used "PAK-FA" instead of "PAK FA". The writing style too seems suspicious to me.

 

[windscorpion]

Well they do say not all news articles are published on their site. I've been looking around, i would have thought Janes or Flight International would have noticed this blockbuster of a story by now to be honest.

 

[f-22fan12]

This is truly a huge surprise for me. The Russians have usually maintained some sort of a balance with the USAF. Even if they didn't have alot of the comparable planes (su-35) they still have a few to demonstrate their abilities. But not developing a 5th gen. fighter will leave them in the dust considering the F-22A Raptor has been operational for 3 years now. But for Russia's needs, they are doing the right thing. Russia isn't going to take on the U.S. so why act like you are? Purchasing many more Su-34s will give them an excellent strike package. The Su-34 with precision munitions is a very dangerous aircraft. Not to mention the Su-35 is one of the best air superiority aircraft in the world today.

I've always wondered how Russia kept the price of combat aircraft so cheap. But now, I don't have to wonder any longer. This proves no matter who you are, U.S., Russia, or anyone else, combat aircraft are expensive war machines.

 

[Holt_Allen]

This is truly a huge surprise for me. The Russians have usually maintained some sort of a balance with the USAF.

Hmm...

I do not mean to sound arrogant, but if this article is indeed true (which I doubt) why would it be that big of a surprise. You mention that Russia has been able to maintain some sort of parity with the USAF, however I think it would be more accurate to say that the Soviet Union managed to maintain parity with the USAF. After the collapse of the USSR, Russia was left with the technology and programs created under that nation, but insufficient money to continue developing at the same pace as the USAF.

Russia isn't going to take on the U.S. so why act like you are? Purchasing many more Su-34s will give them an excellent strike package. The Su-34 with precision munitions is a very dangerous aircraft. Not to mention the Su-35 is one of the best air superiority aircraft in the world today.

I agree, Russia needs to procure and develop a military that reflects its capabilities and needs as a nation. The United States maintains the military it has as a reflection of its "superpower" nation status, and as such needs a military capable of filling that role.

Anyway, we have no conformation from any major news source that this information is correct, and considering the implications it would have for the Russian military I would say it is probably a fake.

 

[Feanor]

The information is fake. Several things to note. First off the strange spelling of PAK FA has already been pointed out. Second of all the Su-35 is already in service. Third off the Su-35M which is being developed right now was initially conceived as a test bed for 5th gen. avionics meant for the PAK FA. It is not being produced for the VVS, and neither is the baseline Su-35 (10-15 of which are supposedly in service). Finally the article completely ignores the fact that the PAK FA program is being partnered by India. Morever there is no other 5th gen. aircraft program in existance. This would make the cancellation not just unlikely, but plain out impossible. On a related note, the PAK FA is meant to be stealth or at least reduced visibility. The Su-35 is not (it uses almost identical airframe to the basic Flanker) so how it could end up being not far ahead of it is beyond me.

 

[Salty Dog]

The information is fake. Several things to note. First off the strange spelling of PAK FA has already been pointed out. Second of all the Su-35 is already in service. Third off the Su-35M which is being developed right now was initially conceived as a test bed for 5th gen. avionics meant for the PAK FA. It is not being produced for the VVS, and neither is the baseline Su-35 (10-15 of which are supposedly in service). Finally the article completely ignores the fact that the PAK FA program is being partnered by India. Morever there is no other 5th gen. aircraft program in existance. This would make the cancellation not just unlikely, but plain out impossible. On a related note, the PAK FA is meant to be stealth or at least reduced visibility. The Su-35 is not (it uses almost identical airframe to the basic Flanker) so how it could end up being not far ahead of it is beyond me.

What I find astonishing is according to the article, the PAK-FA project had already consumed $13.9 billion out of a $20.0 billion program. What can they show for having "consumed" $13.9 bi?

Well mates, smells like a farse to me (or some pretty creative accounting)!

 

[Feanor]

Last I heard was that the first two prototypes are being assembled with flight tests scheduled for '09. The engines and avionics have already undergone initial testing and will continue to be evaluated, on the Su-35M testbed.

 

[rjmaz1]

This is good news for the west as Russia will definitely be dropping the ball if it cancels PAK-FA.

If you had 50 billion to spend you can either:

A) Bring 1000+ old aircraft up to combat readiness.
B) Retire, sell the old aircraft and conduct research on new aircraft so that when money does arrive you have not lost the technological edge.

It looks like Russia is leaning towards option A. It will now have heaps of ancient cold war aircraft operational, so in the short term it will be powerful. In the long term it will have research and no new aircraft that would have even half a chance against the west.

Russia for the last 10 years should have been flooding the international market with all of its best front line vehicles, aircraft and ships sold at scrap prices. Every country is Africa would have purchased some fighters or helicopters. That money could then have been spent keeping pace with the west and then when Russia does get money we could have ended up with a small, brand new, streamlined force of F-22 and B-2 equivalents.

For Russia's sake i hope they haven't cancelled such an important project. If it has been cancelled though, the design will probably get sold to China, thats may be even worse.

 

[aaaditya]

if the new regarding the pakfa cancellation was true ,then there would have been some reaction from the indian side,considering that they signed a memorandum of understanding with the russian at the highest level for the development of the fifth gen aircraft.

earlier there was a news that russia was withdrawing from the mta project,within a few days ,india and russia signed an agreement intended to expediete the project.

so until we hear further information from the russian and the indian side ,we must consider this news with suspicion.

if russia decides to cancel the pak-fa project ,then india may give a higher priority to the mca project.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

If Russia really did cancel the PAK-FA program(which is not a surprise to me) then they will just upgrade the 1400 aircraft already in service and buy 400 more SU-34 and SU-35. This is good news for the west.

I knew something like this would happen.