This is a discussion on LCA VS J-10 (Closed) within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; The LCA and the J-10 are dawn of the aerospace industry of the two countries, China and India. Some people ...
The LCA and the J-10 are dawn of the aerospace industry of the two countries, China and India. Some people claim that the Chinese J-10 is better and some claim that the Indian LCA is better. This is an analysis of their capabilities from a technical point of view.
Aircraft technical characteristics, its flight performance and tactical capabilities are primarily determined by a design concept which develops from specified aircraft roles, tasks and mission environment. One can see the similarity between the LCA and the J-10 here.
The LCA evolved out of a requirement to replace India's large fleet of MiG-21 and MiG-27. It is a light fighter that primary mission is Air Defense with information delivered from ground based command and control centers. It also features the ability for Close Air Support and Air Interdiction, which was mission that the MiG-27 performed.
The J-10 evolved out of the Lavi fighter of Israel. Israel needed a light fighter to replace its F-4 and Mirage III/V fleets (contemporaries of the MiG-21). This airplane's primary requirement was that of Air Interdiction and CAS. However, China's requirement was somewhat more akin to that of India's. It had to replace its enormous fleets of J-7s and Q-5s. Hence, it would require an emphasis on Air Defense as well as Strike. Both the LCA and the J-10 were designed as theater aircraft, meaning that they are of the same class.
The comparison of these aircraft is largely theoritical because, these aircraft seldom move far away from the battlefield and rarely engage in deep penetration strike missions. However, there are a number of objective factors which can be used to compare these aircraft and rate their technological perfection: aircraft performances, and the characteristics of avionics and armament suites.
The LCA utilizes a clean aerodynamic profile with its tailless delta wind and its monofin. It features high roll rates and can progress from level to vertical flight in seconds due to its large elevons. The LCA is a very stable aircraft and is controlled largely by its quadruple redundant digital fly by wire system. It has a very low wing loading that gives it superb maneuverability. The LCA also has short takeoff and landing ability.
The J-10 features a tapered deltawing with tails and canards. This combination provides extremely high lift, thus providing short takeoff and landing ability. It is quite unstable and requires manipulation by the Iron bird flight control system which is a quadruple redundant digital fly by wire system to stay in the air.
Both these fighters fly conventionally and lack thrust vectoring engines.
Both fighters have similar aceleration and altitudes. The LCA has a top speed of mach 1.7 whereas the J-10 has a top speed of Mach 2. The LCA has a combat radius of about 850km and the J-10 has one from anywhere between 550 to 1100km (according to latest data). The LCA is more suited for the interceptor role because its delta wing is very efficient at transonic to supersonic speeds required for interception. The J-10, being based on the Lavi is more efficient at subsonic speeds required for CAS.
The LCA's payload of 4000kgs is quite similar to the J-10's payload of 4500kgs. Both fighters carry essentially the same amount of ordinance for a strike mission. The J-10 is however more efficient at very low level flight required for a CAS mission. However both aircraft are equally efficient at Interdiction missions.
The LCA uses the Kaveri engine at 20,200 lbs, which provides it a thrust to weight ration of 1.7. The J-10 uses the WS-10 engine that provides a thrust of 27,000lbs and provides it a thrust to weight ratio of 1.75. Both engines are very fuel efficient. The Kaveri engine has advanced features that allow it to start with ease in high altitudes or very hot conditions without any fall in engine efficiency. It also has advanced protection against foreign object damage. On the other hand, it is doubtful that the WS-10 has such protective features.
The role of avionics in aircraft combat employment is ever growing. Let us look at the avionics subsystems of the aircraft under comparison. Both airplanes run on Mil 1553b standard buses.
The LCA radar is a lightweight pulse doppler that has the ability to tract 10 targets at ranges of over 100km and engage 4. The J-10's radar choice has not been determined yet. But its choices are the Elta 2035 radar (originally meant for the Lavi) that tracks 6 targets at ranges over 100km and engages 4 targets and the Phazotron N010 radar that equips the later versions of the Su-27 that can tract 6 targets at ranges up to 160km and engages 2 targets. Some sources suggest that there is a Chinese radar under development that is similar to the Phazotron N010 radar. The LCA radar more modern than the N010 aswell as the Elta 2035 radar in terms of tracking ability and jamming immunity. When operating against ground targets, all the afformentioned radars are similar in ability.
The LCA uses an indigenous EW system that is based on the latest technology, and is similar to the one in the Indian Su-30MKI. THe J-10 in comparison will use either the standard Su-27 EW suite or an indigenous version of it. The LCA suite is more advanced than the standard Su-27 EW suite, which was rejected for use in the Su-30MKI. RWR system, jammer and chaff & flare dispensers are used in both aircraft.
The LCA utilized a FLIR along with other OLS whereas the J-10 lacks this. THey both use target seeker/designator pods for ground attack missions with PGMs. The LCA uses a inbuilt designator pod, whereas the J-10 will utilize a Chinese version of the Litening pod.
A number of the LCA's onboard equipment (navigation and communications equipment, cockpit instruments) are versions of those on the Su-30MKI and are quite close to the best in world technology. The onboard systems on the J-10 are either indigenous chinese developments or are Chinese versions of cockpit instrumentations of the Su-27. The LCA utilized a HUD, HMS and 2 color MFDs and HOTAS controls. The J-10 utlizes a HUD, HMS, 1 color MFD and 2 monochrome ones and HOTAS controls.
Both fighters feature high survivability, provided by a wide range of assets. Systems protecting from fuel loss and hydroshock, as well as the firefighting system (which also protects airframe compartments) make both aircraft very survivable.
In terms of weapon load, both these fighters are quite similar.
Both use HMS for their SRAAMs. The LCA uses the AA-11, which is quite possibly the best SRAAM in service along with the Python 4. The J-10 uses a Chinese version of the Python 3 missile in their aircraft. The J-10 could also use the AA-11 aircraft that were procured with the Su-27.
The LCA uses the AA-12/Astra active radar guided missile for its BVR engagements. The J-10 might use either the AA-10 semiactive guided missile or the Chinese version of the Italian apside missile.
The LCA uses Kh-59ME for Interdiction and the Kh-31 for SEAD missile, along with American LGBs and French air to surface weapons. The J-10's guided missiles are Russian LGBs, Kh-31 for SEAD and the Kh-31 for Interdiction. Both airplanes use indigenously made unguided weapons.
The LCA and the J-10 use the same Russian 23mm gun which have similar characteristics.
On the whole, aircraft combat capability is usually assessed by some complex indices, defining an aircraft's overall performance.
The advantages that the LCA posessed over the J-10 is its more up to date radar, EW, cockpit instrumentation systems and its greater weapon choice. The advantage that the J-10 has is its marginally greater thrust to weight ratio and its high efficiency at low level flight.
Both aircraft as as previously mentioned are theater aircraft and are typically used for air defense missions in the near zone or, possibly, against ground targets lacking air defense cover. Both are truly excellent aircraft and are superior to their main opponents - the F-16A fighters of Taiwan and Pakistan.
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Some add ons:
1)J-10 can use both the R-77(AA12 Adder) and SD-10/PL11 Active radar homing missiles.
2)EW systems will be quite similar in both the machines as the Israelis are active in both the programmes.
3)The LCA's main opponent will be the JF-17 Thunder not the Falcon.
4)The Python 3 is known as the PL8.The J-10's main SRAAM is the PL9C with a purported off boresight capability of upto 80 degrees(quite similar to the Python5)
5)Acording to some Chinese sources the TV WS10 engine is almost ready and the mid to late production J10 will utilise this power plant.Kaveri for LCA,I have no idea .Can any body tell when it'll come online?
I'm curious as to the status of the J-10 in Pakistani service when it has Israeli influence in its design brief and I would assume, some componentry.
In private discussions I have had with some Pakistanis they have said that there is no way that the PAF would purchase any hardware that has had Israeli input.
2 questions:
is this right? and
if so, where does that place the PAF in aircraft selection considering that the Israelis are quite immersed in Chinese aviation development across a number of areas, eg EW, Missiles, Aircraft components, weapons integration etc.
As an outsider this is a little confusing, so some clarity would be good.
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some clarity would be good.
Ditto! although I've heard that the PAF will buy this plane, but I've also been confused with regards to this conundrum.
Maybe! the Chinese will make the systems under TOT
TOT reminds me PAF is also going for TOT in high end electronic/avionics components.So maybe the PAF J-10 will be equipped with ours?
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does anyone object?
All Pakistanis!
:P No but seriously speaking, most of what is on the net regarding the J10 is guess work,whereas the LCA has solid specs posted on the net.
Who knpws that all the presumptions about the J10'S radar come unhinged when it's solid specs are released,in other words it may be as or more advanced than the LCA's radar.
LCA is meant to replace India's flying coffins, the Mig21s, and Mig 23s. Whereas JF-17 is as capable as F-16s in PAF so they are different technologies being developed to replace totally opposite jets.
pakistan might consider buying israeli euqipment soon one of the biggest newpaper (jang news paper) in pakistan has been running a poll since last year when Gen Pervez had made the remarks !! you know the ones about accepting Israel i would say the accepting thing would just be a formality i bet PAF will buy the Chinese J-10 as israel stoped supplying tech help after the US told them to do so. I am not sure if the israeli system on the J-10 would be a good idea for pakistan, lets take it hypothetically if the pakistani's (PAC) gets a ToT on the J-10 they would expect to supply those and sell them on(to increase competitiveness and R&D money), the only buyers would be the Arabs or malysians or other muslim and 3rd world states (didn't mean 3rd world states as an insult believe me i would call them something else if i had a word to describe developing nations) like african countries now because of that reason they would not anounce that the Aircraft has Avionics or radars that originated from Israel its this complecateing political situation that prevent modernization and the progress of humanity.
but i bet the Pakistani J-10 would have a fourth gen italian avionics the same type of stuff on the JF-17 but just abit better like if JF is 3rd gen the J-10 would be fourth guess that might work seem only logical.
i know the french are quiet interested in and jf-17 J-10 not to buy them but to work wiht the PAC adn CAC on group project, the frech is the only country that is not working with consortiums they desperetly need more contributers. ie more minds
Hey I am Writing for the first time in this forum but i do read it every day. One thing i dont understand is why indian ppl are so excited of LCA. I am hearing for last 2 decades that it is building but when the hell will it complete. All the avionics were decided almost 15 yrs back how can u say that it will met all the standards of today when u compare it with eurofighter and mirage 2000-5 and even J-10. These aircrafts are the latest in the current scene and i dont think so that there will be any match of LCA with these modern aircrafts.
And if we think that LCA is in final stage as many indians say that they have developed many and they are in the process of testing then why the hell indians keep buying mirage 2000-5 to replace its fleet. If they think so that LCA is that much capable then why the hell are they wasting money in buying Mirages why not spped up there process of building thye LCA bcz they can then take it to scene by 2009-2010.
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Any comment plz give
Yes first of all read the rules of this place.Secondly, we lay utmost emphasis on the word "RESPECT".Give it to other members/their nationalities,countries and u'll get it u'rself.
Third make sure that u put forward valid arguments in u'r posts.
And fourth, try not to get emotional while posting.
Thanks
.Can any body tell when it'll come online?
