Is this just a rumor?

SpudmanWP

The Bunker Group
The numbers given for the reduction will just bring the numbers down to the original schedule (before last spring's Gate's acceleration plans) from last spring.
 

Scorpion82

New Member
Yet it's a serious drawback to the US military as their inventory of combat aircraft is depleting at alarming rates. In this case it would have been better to buy some additional F-22 to replace some more F-15. I think the USN is in the best position here as it receives just a few more F/A-18E/F, but there are no plans to replace USAF aircraft with anything else but F-35 and for the USMC there is no really viable alternative to the Harrier.
 

F-15 Eagle

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The numbers given for the reduction will just bring the numbers down to the original schedule (before last spring's Gate's acceleration plans) from last spring.
But how does that help the air force or the F-35 program? Seems like they take a step forward then take two steps back.

What has congress have to say?

Yet it's a serious drawback to the US military as their inventory of combat aircraft is depleting at alarming rates. In this case it would have been better to buy some additional F-22 to replace some more F-15. I think the USN is in the best position here as it receives just a few more F/A-18E/F, but there are no plans to replace USAF aircraft with anything else but F-35 and for the USMC there is no really viable alternative to the Harrier.
I know I thought they were accelerating the F-35 because of stopping the F-22 at 187 jets, now they want to delay the F-35 too?

Damn politicians, their worthless. :ar15

The USMC could always buy some F/A-18 Super Hornets to replace their old F-18s. The harrier should be good for many years yet but still they need the F-35s.
 

Feanor

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Well there is the money issue. As is the defense budget is approaching a trillion dollars. How much do you want to spend?
 

Spetsznaz

New Member
Lets remember that this is supposedly an idea, these things get thrown around a bit. The too much money has been put into the F-35 in order for the pentagon not to buy them till 2015:confused:
 

F-15 Eagle

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Lets remember that this is supposedly an idea, these things get thrown around a bit. The too much money has been put into the F-35 in order for the pentagon not to buy them till 2015:confused:
No final decision and no official statement on this issue.

But yeah that makes no sense, first Gates stops production of the F-22 at 187 jets and wants to accelerate the F-35 to replace the F-15 and F-16, which sounds fine and all but then wants to delay 122 of those jets until 2015? :confused: WTF something smells fishy.

Well there is the money issue. As is the defense budget is approaching a trillion dollars. How much do you want to spend?
Money is not the issue, I'm not saying poor more into the defense budget, I just don't get if they are already spending billions on the F-35, yet nothing gets done.:hitwall
 

Spetsznaz

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I say wait and see, America needs active 5th generation fighters because Russia plans for the PAK FA to be put in full production as soon as it 'comes out'
 

F-15 Eagle

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I say wait and see, America needs active 5th generation fighters because Russia plans for the PAK FA to be put in full production as soon as it 'comes out'
Yeah so far even if the supposed plan goes along, they still plan on buying 2456 F-35s no cuts to the overall numbers, just need more testing...which they need to hurry up with the testing already, it should not take 20 god damn years just to test a new fighter.

I don't want to see the F-35 go the way of the F-22..a never ending death spiral which having only 300 F-35s instead of 2400+ and cost 2 billion a plane.
 

F-15 Eagle

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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) on Wednesday said it was continuing work to sharply reduce the costs of the F-35 fighter and did not believe the program was in trouble despite a report that the Pentagon will cut production of 122 airplanes through 2015.

Lockheed spokesman Chris Geisel said the company was running about four to six months late on finishing the final four of 19 developmental aircraft, which in turn prevented completion of all the flight tests planned by the end of 2009.

He said the gap was narrowing between Pentagon and Lockheed projections about the cost and time required to complete the development program.

Senior Lockheed officials were meeting this week with top Pentagon officials to hammer out a final plan for funding the program in fiscal 2011 and the coming years, Geisel said.

"Much of the information that's recently been reported is pre-decisional and we continue to work with the (Office of the Secretary of Defense) to come to resolution," he said.

He said the possible changes being discussed would not affect the U.S. government's plan to buy a total 2,443 F-35s for the three military services, or the dates that the services have set for starting to use the new fighter jets.

"The program is not in trouble. We are a little behind on delivery of the (system design and development) aircraft, about six months, but the rest of the aircraft will be delivered within the next four to six months."

Bloomberg on Wednesday reported that Defense Secretary Robert Gates directed the military in a December 23 budget memorandum to delay the F-35 program, cutting planned purchases by 10 aircraft in fiscal 2011 and a total of 122 through 2015.

Gates cut the planned purchase of F-35s by 10 planes in 2011 to 42; by 17 in 2012 to 45; by 52 in 2013 to 77; by 20 in 2014 to 90; and 23 in 2015 to 107, Bloomberg said, citing the document.

No comment was immediately available from the Pentagon's F-35 office.

It said the Pentagon would use more than $2.8 billion that was budgeted earlier to buy the military's next-generation fighter would instead be used to continue its development.

If the plan is approved the money would be used to complete flight testing more quickly and work on other issues, such as software development, said one source familiar with the issue, who was not authorized to speak publicly.

But he said that the Pentagon could potentially add back in the production airplanes if Lockheed and the program were able to beat their cost and schedule targets.

(Reporting by Andrea Shalal-Esa; editing by Carol Bishopric)
 

Marc 1

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Verified Defense Pro
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) on Wednesday said it was continuing work to sharply reduce the costs of the F-35 fighter and did not believe the program was in trouble despite a report that the Pentagon will cut production of 122 airplanes through 2015.

Lockheed spokesman Chris Geisel said the company was running about four to six months late on finishing the final four of 19 developmental aircraft, which in turn prevented completion of all the flight tests planned by the end of 2009.

He said the gap was narrowing between Pentagon and Lockheed projections about the cost and time required to complete the development program.

Senior Lockheed officials were meeting this week with top Pentagon officials to hammer out a final plan for funding the program in fiscal 2011 and the coming years, Geisel said.

"Much of the information that's recently been reported is pre-decisional and we continue to work with the (Office of the Secretary of Defense) to come to resolution," he said.

He said the possible changes being discussed would not affect the U.S. government's plan to buy a total 2,443 F-35s for the three military services, or the dates that the services have set for starting to use the new fighter jets.

"The program is not in trouble. We are a little behind on delivery of the (system design and development) aircraft, about six months, but the rest of the aircraft will be delivered within the next four to six months."

Bloomberg on Wednesday reported that Defense Secretary Robert Gates directed the military in a December 23 budget memorandum to delay the F-35 program, cutting planned purchases by 10 aircraft in fiscal 2011 and a total of 122 through 2015.

Gates cut the planned purchase of F-35s by 10 planes in 2011 to 42; by 17 in 2012 to 45; by 52 in 2013 to 77; by 20 in 2014 to 90; and 23 in 2015 to 107, Bloomberg said, citing the document.

No comment was immediately available from the Pentagon's F-35 office.

It said the Pentagon would use more than $2.8 billion that was budgeted earlier to buy the military's next-generation fighter would instead be used to continue its development.

If the plan is approved the money would be used to complete flight testing more quickly and work on other issues, such as software development, said one source familiar with the issue, who was not authorized to speak publicly.

But he said that the Pentagon could potentially add back in the production airplanes if Lockheed and the program were able to beat their cost and schedule targets.

(Reporting by Andrea Shalal-Esa; editing by Carol Bishopric)
Given the priority being accorded this program and the urgent need to replace obscelescent/time expired airframes, this is a big decision. And probably shows the state of the US budget woes at the moment. Still, it does possibly allow another nation - Japan? to pinch these production slots. Maybe we can get some of ours a little sooner - even with the superbugs I think we are still cutting things close in terms of airframe life on the remaining legacy Hornets.
 

OPSSG

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I bet they feel stupid about cutting the two F-35s from the test program now.
+1

I'm watching the current developments with concern but thankfully there are people like you and gf who keep me on an even keel. :)
 

F-15 Eagle

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Given the priority being accorded this program and the urgent need to replace obscelescent/time expired airframes, this is a big decision. And probably shows the state of the US budget woes at the moment. Still, it does possibly allow another nation - Japan? to pinch these production slots. Maybe we can get some of ours a little sooner - even with the superbugs I think we are still cutting things close in terms of airframe life on the remaining legacy Hornets.
I can't see them allowing the USAF to fall apart, They must know they need to replace their F-15/16s and the F-35 is the only 5th generation fight in production now, well except for the F-22 which shuts down in 2011.

So why did they cap the F-22 again?:rolleyes:
 

Marc 1

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I can't see them allowing the USAF to fall apart, They must know they need to replace their F-15/16s and the F-35 is the only 5th generation fight in production now, well except for the F-22 which shuts down in 2011.



So why did they cap the F-22 again?:rolleyes:
More expensive, less flexible, aged digital architecture. Imagine how few aircraft you'd be buying if you kept the F-22 line open as well as tried to fund the F-35 concurrently.
 

F-15 Eagle

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More expensive, less flexible, aged digital architecture. Imagine how few aircraft you'd be buying if you kept the F-22 line open as well as tried to fund the F-35 concurrently.
They can afford it, they just don't want to spend the money.

But if I had to choose I'd choose the F-35, though the F-22 could still make a great gap filler until the F-35 line goes into full swing.

But they should not delay the F-35 IMHO.
 

the_big_m_in_ok

New Member
With respect to the first post in the "Is this a rumor?" thread:

I thinks it's safe to say that the increasing cost of individual production units will cool the enthusiasm for customers to buy it. That goes for the F-22 as well. Buying both at once in large numbers? Probably not. The government doesn't have that much money, I think.

(I did have a URL to post as a reference, indicating the F-35 cost would be, say, $100-125 million at minimum per unit, but I can't post these things yet.)
 

Sea Toby

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I don't want to sound as a sour puss, but really folks after the recent recession, huge banking bailouts, and the ongoing credit crunch, do any of you fully expect long rang defense weapons programs would continue as if everything is normal and we are in a great economy?

The older aircraft will have to suffice a few years more, as the new aircraft program is going to and will be delayed. Many nations have announced their intentions to delay buying their aircraft, leaving the US taxpayers holding the bag. Its not unreasonable for the US government to delay buying their aircraft as well.... Everyone wants the best bang for the dollar or Euro....

The doomsayers will say they were right. On the other hand the supporters will say eventually the aircraft will be bought. I have been under the impression the USAF and RAF, and other air forces have been too big and have not seen as much budget cuts as the Army and Navy. Many government reviews suggest the Army have been cut too much..

While I have confidence in the F-35 program, it would not surprise me if there were cuts and aircraft costs rise. And this includes everyone involved...
 

the_big_m_in_ok

New Member
Sea Toby said:
The older aircraft will have to suffice a few years more, as the new aircraft program is going to and will be delayed. Many nations have announced their intentions to delay buying their aircraft, leaving the US taxpayers holding the bag. Its not unreasonable for the US government to delay buying their aircraft as well.... Everyone wants the best bang for the dollar or Euro....
Have a look at these:
WikiAnswers - How much does one FA18 Super Hornet cost
F-22 Raptor Cost
Winslow T. Wheeler: How Much Will Each F-35 Cost?

The opinions above are just that: Opinions.
F-18 = $55 million
F-22 = $187 million
F-35 = $250-300 million


I would get 5-6 ea. F-18 Prowlers before I'd get the F-35.
But here's another idea: Size up the Prowler by 25-30% and replace the F414's with F119's. The engines should fit, but if the military brass at the Pentagon want to add-on a lot more avionics/computers/classified black boxes later, then the effect might create another F-35 look-alike down the road. :rolleyes:


There ain't no free lunch.
 

Grand Danois

Entertainer
The SH is currently $60 mill rec ufc, while the F-35A will be $65 mill once it enters FRP, according to JET. The F-35C costs more, you'd get 1½ SH for each SH.
 
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