Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) update

The actual PAC report is here: Portal Rasmi Parlimen Malaysia - Laporan

The first two LCS is slated for completion by 2025. The deadline for the rest though, are still dependent on the acceptance of the first two.

koxinga said:

The key question is, what's next?

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The answer is nothing much comes next.

The government isn't going to start from the very beginning in identifying what wrong because doing so would mean acknowledging that the policy in place is highly flawed to begin with. BNS hadn't constructed anything in years; a more prudent plan would have seen DCNS constructing the lead pair with BNS completing the rest [some with modules shipped from France] after going through a learning curve. The question also arises as to who was in charge of ensuring that BNS was actually in a position to meet its contractual obligations.

There is also a question on what happened on 11 July 2011, when the decision was changed from the Sigma to the Gowind overnight. Of course, whether they want to open that can of worms (and the Defence Minister then, Hamidi) is another matter.

It seems clear that a handful of people both within the government (MinDef/MoF) and outside of the government were dictating how the program was being run without oversight.

That aside, by the time the first hulls are commissioned, the electronics would be over a decade old.

koxinga said:

There is also a question on what happened on 11 July 2011, when the decision was changed from the Sigma to the Gowind overnight.

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That is the least of the problems they faced. Sigma was preferred by the RMN not because it was seen as a better hull per see but for other reasons. Even if Sigma was selected the same issues would probably have surfaced because the key prerequisites had not been met; BNS wasn't in the position to handle a programme of this scale/magnitude. .

Granted politicians should not meddle too much but unfortunately it's they who decide on what to buy after weighing in a whole host of factors.
If the armed services had its way a pair of Kockums boats would have been ordered instead of Lekiu class frigates; Super Hornets instead of Su-30s; Hornets instead of Fulcrums; M16A2s instead of AUGs; etc.

koxinga said:

Of course, whether they want to open that can of worms (and the Defence Minister then, Hamidi) is another matter.

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The project was the then PM's and DPM's baby so to speak. DCNS had strong political backing then; had done a good job with the Scorpene's and what it was offering in terms of ToTs and other stuff for the LCS programme was seen as superior to what Damen could offer.

koxinga said:

That aside, by the time the first hulls are commissioned, the electronics would be over a decade old.

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Some components will have to be replaced; some upgraded; doesn't necessarily mean that being a decade old results in them being obsolete or inoperable. How they are stored also plays a part.

STURM said:

Granted politicians should not meddle too much but unfortunately it's they who decide on what to buy after weighing in a whole host of factors.

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They should do it like Singapore, where defence procurement goes through an independent agency (DSTA) with the armed forces as the client and use scientific processes like analytical hierarchical process (AHP) for the evaluation scoring.

But being Malaysia being Malaysia.

STURM said:

Some components will have to be replaced; some upgraded; doesn't necessarily mean that being a decade old results in them being obsolete or inoperable. How they are stored also plays a part.

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Sure, they could conceivebly be used, the Indonesians Bung Tomo class is one example. But it would be challenging on the ILS and cost. Most defence equipments have long lifecycles (~25 years) and would stock sufficient spares but it is a decade of collecting dust in some storeroom in Lumut.

koxinga said:

They should do it like Singapore, where defence procurement goes through an independent agency (DSTA) with the armed forces as the client and use scientific processes like analytical hierarchical process (AHP) for the evaluation scoring.

But being Malaysia being Malaysia.

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Bravo and kudos for Singapore, I'm sure a lot of countries would have far less issues if they just emulated Singapore but completely different dynamics at play.

The issue is that Malaysia [the politicians and the public] has a completely different mindset to defence; complacent. Singapore feels vulnerable; it has a policy of always maintaining an edge over its closest neighbours and despite concern about China in recent times can still focus on dealing with the MAF and TNI [the only possible threats if a conflict occurred involving neighbouring states]. Malaysia on the other hand doesn't feel vulnerable the way Singapore does or places a level of importance towards defence the way its island neighbour does.

koxinga said:

they could conceivebly be used

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They could surely be used but might need upgrades. Age is not the issue but other factors.

koxinga said:

it is a decade of collecting dust in some storeroom

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Like I said; depends on how they're stored. In this case its not storerooms per see but purpose built storage areas, some with temperature/humidity control.

STURM said:

The issue is that Malaysia [the politicians and the public] has a completely different mindset to defence; complacent. Singapore feels vulnerable; it has a policy of always maintaining an edge over its closest neighbours and despite concern about China in recent times can still focus on dealing with the MAF and TNI [the only possible threats if a conflict occurred involving neighbouring states]. Malaysia on the other hand doesn't feel vulnerable the way Singapore does or places a level of importance towards defence the way its island neighbour does.

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Thanks but that is a different matter. In my opinion, you are using the word "Singapore" loosely. It is only the defence planners and PAP that recongize the strategic vulnerable acutely. But because they have absolute majority, most people have little or no interest in defence. The general populace have also been conditioned that the defence budget is a sacred cow that has life and death consequences. In other words, the political climate is permissive for careful long term planning.

What I meant was the procurment approach. For those procurement that the Malaysian government has been determined to proceed, can the procurement be done independently, with professionals and not be overwritten by the politicians?

I don't think i was using it too loosely. Compared to the average Malaysian the average Singaporean has a far better appreciation of the need for adequate investments to be made towards defence: The average Singaporean has the shared experience of NS and has been constantly reminded of the need for a strong SAF.

Some years ago the PM spoke of the situation in the Ukraine and of how it was only a strong SAF which kept Singapore's larger neighbours friendly - such a statement would be unheard of in Malaysia where defence is not a priority and where the average Malaysian is concerned about other issues. You will also have noticed that the role the SAF occupies in Singaporean society is profoundly different compared to the MAF which is not a national institution the way the SAF is.

I know what you meant and the point I was driving at is that the flawed politically driven manner Malaysian defence procurement is handled is a reflection of the attitude Malaysia has with regards to defence. As a senior SAF officer put it to me many years ago [in public they tend to be reserved and speak of OPSEC but get them in the right environment and they tend to be more open]; Singapore's worry is not what Malaysia buys or will buy but Malaysia revamping its defence policy and actually seriously putting emphasis on enabling the MAF to get the capability it needs and desires.

In September 2020, the first of the Indonesian-built Airtech CN235s were flown to Indonesia for “completion and testing.” The first flight of the upgraded aircraft took place just over a year later. And now the first of three upgraded CN235-220 is delivered to Malaysia. The two remaining IPTN CN235 aircraft and multiple ground stations are expected to be completed later this year.

This should actually be in the RMAF thread but since it concerns MPAs I've posted it here.

A press release from the USN.

NAVAL AIR WARFARE CENTER AIRCRAFT DIVISION, PATUXENT RIVER, Md.–The U.S. Navy has delivered the first of 3 Royal Malaysian Air Force CN-235 military transport aircraft converted to a maritime patrol platform. This comes just three-and-a-half years after the U.S. signed a Letter of Offer and Acceptance to begin increasing the capability and interoperability of U.S. and Malaysian forces.The effort was facilitated by the U.S. Navy’s Building Partner Capacity program, aligned with the U.S. government’s Maritime Securityn Initiative, which is intended to assist the Malaysian government in increasing maritime security and maritime domain awareness within the Malaysian Exclusive Economic Zone.

The project to integrate an Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) upgrade into the aircraft was undertaken by the RMAF in cooperation with the Naval Air Systems Command’s Security Cooperation Office and Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division AIRWorks.Our collective international team has overcome tremendous challenges during the recent worldwide pandemic to deliver this capability. We are excited to deliver this first aircraft,” said Gerald Swift, who leads AIRWorks, NAWCAD’s office focused on rapidly and effectively delivering warfighter capability to meet immediate and emergent warfighter needs.

The upgrade includes a maritime surveillance mission suite, maritime surveillance radar, an electro-optical infrared turret, line-of-sight datalink and a roll-on/roll-off mission system operator station. Compatible mobile and fixed ground stations are also being delivered to increase the RMAF’s ISR capability. Building Partner Capacity programs represent the highest level of return on engagement to the United States,” said Ron Weinberger, director, Security Cooperation Office at the Naval Air Systems Command. The Malaysian CN-235 program will be a significant force multiplier to an indigenous Malaysian ISR capability and will directly support joint Malaysian and U.S. efforts to ensure global security in the Indo-Pacific Command area of responsibility.

The project’s CN-235s were flown to Indonesia for completion and testing in Sept. 2020 amid COVID-19 restrictions and first flight took place in Oct. 2021. Work on the two remaining CN-235 aircraft and multiple ground stations continues and is expected to be completed in 2022."

The 6 CN-235s were originally acquired to replace the retired Carobou fleet. Originally there were plans for 32 and as part of the deal Malaysia was to have supplied some 2,000 Proton cars and a number of Aerotigas [a prop driven light aircraft]. Delivery was slightly delayed due to certification issues with IPTN. Since entering service the 6 CN-235s have performed multiple roles such ranging from mercy flights; SAR, as rain makers, light transport to jump training. The type use to frequent the southern Philippines in support of the MAF's IMT and regularly delivers personally and cargo to Layang-Layang the country's largest reef in the Spratlys.

The operator was originally 21 Squadron which relocated from Subang to Kuching [were the simulator is located] some years ago and has since been redesigned 1 Squadron. Their conversion into MPAs [officially designated MSAs] significantly improves the country's ability to safeguard its maritime domain.

STURM said:

I know what you meant and the point I was driving at is that the flawed politically driven manner Malaysian defence procurement is handled is a reflection of the attitude Malaysia has with regards to defence.

…Singapore's worry is not what Malaysia buys or will buy but Malaysia revamping its defence policy and actually seriously putting emphasis on enabling the MAF to get the capability it needs and desires.

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Agreed.

Is this true?

• Abdul Aziz’s main grievance was RMN’s objection to the design of the ships as he felt the navy, as the end user, should have a say but his views were ignored by the contractor, Boustead Naval Shipyard (BNS), a unit of BHIC, which was supposed to build the six LCS.
• The 6 LCS are supposed to be delivered in stages, with the last one scheduled for 2023, but today, not a single ship is ready and RM6bil has been paid to BNS.

“I refused. I was offered to take over from (Tan Sri Ahmad Ramli Mohd Nor). I refused and I said no. I did not want to go and eat my (word/decisions earlier),” Abdul Aziz told the Public Accounts Committee. Testimony by Abdul Aziz, that he made the decision because many of the actions of BHS was allegedly against the interest of the navy.

It seems that Malaysia, as a country, can’t learn from past mistakes — if that is the case, it’s not a mistake but a system design that generates a desired political outcome at the expense of the RMN.

Malaysia can't or rather won't learn from mistakes made with regards to large scale military procurement because of a deeply ingrained politically driven defence policy.

The JKSTUPKK report have been uploaded. Does it make sense for BNS to complete the program ? Cutting loss and stopping the program would be politically unpalatable.

STURM said:

Malaysia can't or rather won't learn from mistakes made with regards to large scale military procurement because of a deeply ingrained politically driven defence policy.

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If what is rumoured about the wheeled howitzer selection is true, I guess you will be be proven right.

Not my intention to sound arrogant but I know I'm right because as a long time observer and as someone who use to have fairly good contacts with those in uniform and the industry; I have a fairly good idea of the various deep rooted flaws in the system and cockups which have occurred; as well as the reasoning and at times delusion which drives politicians and bureaucrats.

As for the SPH requirement the news about Yavuz is at the moment nothing but pure speculation. As it stands there's strong support for Nexter but the Turks have also been making steady inroads and it's not inconceivable that Yavuz could be selected.

Despite what the declasified report put, with the amount of Investment that Malaysia already done, just don't see what else can be done asside finishing those Gowind derivatives.

If not mistaken already enough order work being done for at least four from six in the contract. At least finish those four. Just my two cents.

According to this, Malaysia will finish 5 (from plan 6 before) of LCS by 2028. While the first two will be on 2026. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the first two already in quite advance stage in BNS. Thus why still take another close to four years to finish it ?

Thus I suspect this means still some work readjustment still need to be done within BNS.

Ananda said:

MSN

According to this, Malaysia will finish 5 (from plan 6 before) of LCS by 2028. While the first two will be on 2026. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the first two already in quite advance stage in BNS. Thus why still take another close to four years to finish it ?

Thus I suspect this means still some work readjustment still need to be done within BNS.

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Thanks for sharing.
So does this means that the total amount of Gowind frigates on order is cut from 6 to 5, or will the 6th one delivered after 2028?

Sandhi Yudha said:

does this means that the total amount of Gowind frigates on order is cut from 6 to 5, or will the 6th one delivered after 2028?

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Marhalim seem think all 6 will still be in completion, despite this article before talking only five. Perhaps Malaysian members like @STURM can shed more light in this one.

Marhalim still not happy tough, he seems still believes it will cost much more the budgeted. However just as he put his opinion blog as 'fait accompli', Malaysian MinDef has not much choice then to finish it.

On this matter Malaysian MinDef already invest on much of the materials for at least four LCS. Perhaps he expects just four is better to be finished then five let alone all six. Personally I do agree for Malaysia to cut loss and finish just those four LCS.

Then move on to another project. However I don't have information on how the contract with NG (not just BNS) really create. It could be they (Malaysian MinDef) are bound to finish all ?

Let's just say that details are a bit fuzzy at the moment; politics are at play and money is tight [not with the country per see but the military]. The intention indeed is to eventually complete all 6 but this would necessitate the need for more money to be allocated.