Military Aviation News and Discussion

Interesting that the Euro next generation fighter (NGF) will be optimized for CATOBAR carrier operations from the outset. Given German reluctance to naval operations lately and the fact that France’s carrier is quite old, where exactly will these jets be used for naval operations 15 years from now? If a new carrier build isn’t started soon, why bother? Can’t see Spain switching from STOVL to CATOBAR.

European FCAS fighter to be optimised for carrier ops | Jane's 360

John Fedup said:

Interesting that the Euro next generation fighter (NGF) will be optimized for CATOBAR carrier operations from the outset. Given German reluctance to naval operations lately and the fact that France’s carrier is quite old, where exactly will these jets be used for naval operations 15 years from now? If a new carrier build isn’t started soon, why bother? Can’t see Spain switching from STOVL to CATOBAR.

European FCAS fighter to be optimised for carrier ops | Jane's 360

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Future proofing it and it does make sense to include those components from the beginning. The French will most likely replace the Charles de Gaulle CVN even if only for national pride. I would not be surprised if preliminary and / or full design work hasn't been ongoing for quite a while even though it may not have been in the public domain.

ngatimozart said:

Future proofing it and it does make sense to include those components from the beginning. The French will most likely replace the Charles de Gaulle CVN even if only for national pride. I would not be surprised if preliminary and / or full design work hasn't been ongoing for quite a while even though it may not have been in the public domain.

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Charles de Gaulle completed midlife upgrade/refit last September. And, shortly after it was announced that a study was being commenced regarding it's future replacement
France begins deliberations on new aircraft carrier

ngatimozart said:

Future proofing it and it does make sense to include those components from the beginning. The French will most likely replace the Charles de Gaulle CVN even if only for national pride. I would not be surprised if preliminary and / or full design work hasn't been ongoing for quite a while even though it may not have been in the public domain.

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Yes, French pride will see a replacement for Charles de Gaulle. The question for me is how much enthusiasm will the Germans have for including naval enhancements into the next generation fighter design, enhancements the Germans will have no use for and will result in a more expensive jet?

John Fedup said:

Interesting that the Euro next generation fighter (NGF) will be optimized for CATOBAR carrier operations from the outset. Given German reluctance to naval operations lately and the fact that France’s carrier is quite old, where exactly will these jets be used for naval operations 15 years from now? If a new carrier build isn’t started soon, why bother? Can’t see Spain switching from STOVL to CATOBAR.

European FCAS fighter to be optimised for carrier ops | Jane's 360

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Haven’t you heard, the Germans have proposed a joint European aircraft carrier.

Germany proposes European aircraft carrier

KiwiRob said:

Haven’t you heard, the Germans have proposed a joint European aircraft carrier.

Germany proposes European aircraft carrier

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The only European carrier will be French flagged. Political reality in Germany will never see funding coming through for a Euro carrier. Just look at their other struggling naval programs.

This link (admittedly biased) suggests Dassault could end up with a massive jet order above the 36 new Rafale order planned by India. If true, the RFPs issued earlier for AF and Navy jets seem DOA. LM offered a F-16 factory and Boeing probably offered some serious incentives for their SH.

Again, could be useless speculation on the world’s second or first worst military procurement operation (Canada being the other possibility) and of course good old Giovanni hype.

France May Offer 36 More Rafale Aircraft to India (excerpt)

Portugal has signed a contract worth €827 million (US$916 million) Embraer for 5 KC-390 plus simulator and a services and support package. First delivery is in 2023. Embraer is also having advanced discussions with Hungary about KC-390.

Portugal Signs KC-390 Deal, As Hungary Shows Interest

I would imagine the cost for crop dusting around the Golan Heights will be increasing significantly after this event.

Israel Defense Forces Shoot Civilian Light Aircraft on Golan Heights Mistaking it for An Infiltrating Aircraft from Syria

ngatimozart said:

SAAB is increasing the testing tempo for it's Gripen E program with the number of prototypes in the program increasing from two to five. Also the first of the Gripen F twin seaters are being built. Saab ready to step up tempo of Gripen E testing

NATO will lose its next air war against russia if it waits around for 5th gen aircraft such as the F-35, AVM Simon Rochelle RAF has told a RUSI Combat Air Survivability conference. He said that 80% of NATOs airpower is 4th gen and Russia has developed highly efficient systems for shooting them out of the sky. What he would like is an efficient and effective way to distribute the sensor information from the F-35 systems to the cockpits of his 4th gen aircraft. NATO will lose its next air war to Putin's 'formidable beasts' if it waits for the F-35 to save it

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Congrats to Gripen E fans.

26 August 2019 — Saab completed a successful 65 minute first flight with the first Brazilian Gripen E fighter aircraft, 39-6001. At 2.41 pm CET on August 26, the Gripen E aircraft took off on its maiden flight flown by Saab test pilot Richard Ljungberg (see: First Brazilian Gripen E Completes its First Flight).

Another issue for Boeing’s troubled KC-46 is reported in the link below. As if Boeing didn’t already have enough problems here and with their commercial products. Airbus’s MRTT looks better every day.

US Air Force restricts KC-46 from carrying cargo and passengers

UK's Tempest gains strength as Italy joins formation

Put it here and not in RAF thread, since more and more Tempest gaining International flavor.
Seems the situation that made Typhoon and Rafale exists, will going to repeat.
Tempest with UK, Italy and Sweden and French, Germany and Spain on the other project.

Seems what analysts said on one United Euro fighter project is Impossible, will come true again.

This link discusses China's fast jet future after the J-20. A 6th Gen fighter might be flying by 2030 and enter service in 2035. The link briefly mentions the fighter choice for the navy and suggests the FC-31 not the J-20 is more likely while acknowledging some reports that the J-20 is the choice. The 6th Gen timeline is similar to other announced programs. This could mean 4-5 new jets arriving in 2035. I think financial pressures in Europe and the U.K. will delay their efforts, especially with the Brexit issue. Defence expenditure will be a problem for the US to so there is a small possibility that China will the first to introduce a 6th Gen fighter. Certainly the Russians are in the game as well but they certainly won't be first unless China provides funding. Doubt India wants a second collaboration with Russia.

Beyond China’s J-20 Stealth Fighter

Armée de l'Air Française (French Air Force) has received its first KC-130J on 19/9/2019, with the second one due for delivery next year. It has 2 x C130J -30s on order as well. The Luftwaffe (German Air Force) has 3 each KC-130J and KC-130J-30 on order with the first due for delivery in 2021.

PICTURES: France receives its first KC-130Js tanker

Airbus has made 4 flight tests with the A400M and an Airbus Helicopters H225M conducting dry A2A refuelling contacts. It is intended to undertake wet contacts by the end of the year with certification in 2021.

PICTURES: A400M clears latest tanker trial with H225M

Germany is now considering the SH in order to retain its ability to carry nuclear bombs once their Toranados are retired. Surely buying a few F-35s for this role makes more sense until the French-German 5th Gen arrives. I believe the F-35A can do this, yes?

Boeing’s F-18 jet may have a leg up in Germany over Eurofighter

John Fedup said:

Germany is now considering the SH in order to retain its ability to carry nuclear bombs once their Toranados are retired. Surely buying a few F-35s for this role makes more sense until the French-German 5th Gen arrives. I believe the F-35A can do this, yes?

Boeing’s F-18 jet may have a leg up in Germany over Eurofighter

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I believe that the Bundestag have told the Luftwaffe that the F-35 is off the table.

ngatimozart said:

I believe that the Bundestag have told the Luftwaffe that the F-35 is off the table.

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Yes they did but buying 4th SHs instead doesn't make for a very viable longterm solution. FOC for their future 5th jet, minimum 15-20years and nuclear capability even longer. They had better hope allies with F-35s will be supporting their SHs!

Perhaps I was too generous in my time estimate for FCAS as contracts aren't happening fast enough according to our favourite F-35 basher (the one in the northern hemisphere). Fourth Gen fighters flying possible nuclear missions out to 2040 in Eastern Europe, not a pleasant mission IMO, nuclear or conventional.

Dassault Aviation, Airbus Defence and Space: “To build European Defence, we need to maintain collective momentum”

China is claiming a new search and fire control radar that can counter the F-22. It is described as a practical meter wave sparse array synthetic impulse and aperture radar. Surprised they didn't add Quantum in the description.


Not Good: China Claims It Can Find and Track the F-22