Sad to say, but it looks like this display was targeted at an Army project: Eyes on the prize [CS19D2] | Jane's 360
Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates
- Thread starter stephen weist
- Start date
Long range
Member
The barracuda SSN uses commercial grade fuel and has a crew of 60 it would be nice to have 4 of them for up north
Black Jack Shellac
Active Member
No, I think it is a Phalanx CIWS with an oversized ammo barrel and the gun barrels not visible (maybe they got knocked off).
German and Canadian Firms Developing SeaSpider Rocket-Powered Anti-Torpedo Torpedo
Is there any plans to place this type of weapon on the new build of frigates and would this be an advantage in its use by an accoustically quiet ship
Is there any plans to place this type of weapon on the new build of frigates and would this be an advantage in its use by an accoustically quiet ship
Black Jack Shellac
Active Member
Seaspan Launches Second Offshore Fisheries Science Vessel
Not sure what they count as "launches". It is certainly off the dock, it is now sitting on their careen at their second yard at Lonsdale Quay. It is good news though; with the second OSFSV out of the way, it will enable them to move the last one into the erection berth so they can start fabricating the major blocks for the JSS.
Good day in any event.
Not sure what they count as "launches". It is certainly off the dock, it is now sitting on their careen at their second yard at Lonsdale Quay. It is good news though; with the second OSFSV out of the way, it will enable them to move the last one into the erection berth so they can start fabricating the major blocks for the JSS.
Good day in any event.
Interview with Anderson Smith of BAE at CANSEC re. CSC:
At 00:59 in the video, Mr. Smith seems to indicate that all 15 ships will be general purpose, but with extensive capabilities allowing any ship to undertake an AAW role. So, if true, there may NOT be a specific Iroquois class replacement.
At 00:59 in the video, Mr. Smith seems to indicate that all 15 ships will be general purpose, but with extensive capabilities allowing any ship to undertake an AAW role. So, if true, there may NOT be a specific Iroquois class replacement.
It is a fairly large ship. There should be enough room to accommodate a decent AAW and ASW capability.
Just looking at that model they seemed to have axed the CIWS and have additional VLS launchers mounted above the mission bay. It will be interesting to see what they eventually end up with.
@seaspear the answer is yes, these are proposed for the CSC. And given this is being developed as a "last-ditch defensive weapon" (sort of like a sub-surface CIADS), there is no concern about giving away the ship's position by launching this type of weapon as you will already have been fired upon, perhaps by the very sub you were tracking, and will have deployed your acoustic (and other) countermeasures anyway. One can also presume that by the time this hits the water the ship will be at full power executing avoidance maneuvers. Noise from the launch of SeaSpider will not be a factor at this point.
This program has been in development for at least 3 years now, and has achieved some success recently in testing: Atlas Elektronik, Magellan aims anti-torpedo-torpedo at CSC program
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Reported in Jane's (see post 1832) that those are ExLS launchers, for CAMM. This would give CSC 24 Sea Ceptors for the CIADS role, replacing CIWS and SeaRAM, both of which have appeared on various different models and in different renderings over the past two years or so.
Interesting news on the Polar Icebreaker: Ottawa to turn to a third shipyard to build Canada’s polar icebreaker
Note the reference in the article to two of these being needed.
This takes it out of the queue at Seaspan, which, in my opinion, makes it more likely the option for a third JSS will get exercised.
Note the reference in the article to two of these being needed.
This takes it out of the queue at Seaspan, which, in my opinion, makes it more likely the option for a third JSS will get exercised.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Not really a surprise this option to use a third shipyard is being considered. With the delays on the JSS at SeaSpan, the idea of building one JSS then build a heavy icebreaker then followed by a second JSS was simply a cluster waiting to happen. SeaSpan will have to get a significant replacement build, likely a third JSS (wouldn't object to a couple of LHDs
). Down the road though some serious thought will be required how how to provide enough work to keep three yards and their workforces viable. If this is not done one yard will have to be sacrificed and politically it must be Davie IMO.
). Down the road though some serious thought will be required how how to provide enough work to keep three yards and their workforces viable. If this is not done one yard will have to be sacrificed and politically it must be Davie IMO.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Just some more ammunition on why senior officials at DND and especially Vance should be removed. The latter's removal could provide a pathway for Admiral Norman's new mission, CDS!
20 DND staff involved in writing letter after drunken junket article angers military leadership
20 DND staff involved in writing letter after drunken junket article angers military leadership
Black Jack Shellac
Active Member
So here is a crappy photo of the new coast guard fisheries vessel, now in the water behind their careen. Sorry for the quality, took it on Tuesday last week (June 11, 2019) from Canada place, and i-phones don't have the best in zoom lenses. The next ship has now been moved into position in the erection berth (sorry, no crappy photo). I first saw it on Thursday, so it was probably moved on Wednesday. It would be nice if Seaspan would update the photos on their web page.
Black Jack Shellac
Active Member
How much will Canada's new Frigates Really Cost? .
Looks like we will know what the final configuration of the CSC will be in the next couple of weeks. I hope the govt. doesn't get too stingy, I would hate to have 6900 tonnes of steel with only a 25mm gun. Hmmmm........sounds like deja vu.
Edit: link to the PBO report I have not yet reviewed it.
Looks like we will know what the final configuration of the CSC will be in the next couple of weeks. I hope the govt. doesn't get too stingy, I would hate to have 6900 tonnes of steel with only a 25mm gun. Hmmmm........sounds like deja vu.
Edit: link to the PBO report I have not yet reviewed it.
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I think the kit fit-out for the CSC ships is pretty much decided upon but if junior gets re-elected because of his BS promises I can certainly see him throwing important kit off the CSC ships in order to fund said BS and to pacify the fools that support the LPC. Hope I am wrong in thinking this but junior and his fellow Liberaltards never cease to disappoint.
Black Jack Shellac
Active Member
I wanted to try and unravel how much the PBO (from link in post 1875) actually thinks the build cost for the CSC will be. This was not really necessary as they list the individual build cost on page 19 as $1.9B Canadian in 2019 dollars. This is not the true cost however. The budget includes HST of 15% (so they are charging themselves 15% more and then giving the extra money back to themselves - in normal business this is called a kickback, I've had suppliers try that game with me - they don't last as suppliers of mine). So the actual cost is $1.65B. This is in CAD, since most references are in USD, the conversion is $1.24B USD (using 75 cents US:100 CAD). For comparison, the Burke is estimated to cost $2B each.
The $69.8B total cost is broken down to $5.3B preproduction cost, $53.2B production cost and $11.4B post production (spares etc). So how does $1.9B each inflate up to $53.2B for 15 ships? First off, that is the 9th ship cost, not the first ship cost, and there is an assumed 77.5% learning curve, meaning every doubling of the number of ships the cost is reduced by 77.5%. So the cost for the individual ships is:
1 4.26B
2 3.30B
3 2.85B
4 2.56B
5 2.36B
6 2.21B
7 2.08B
8 1.98B
9 1.90B
10 1.83B
11 1.76B
12 1.71B
13 1.66B
14 1.62B
15 1.57B
On top of this, they are not reporting in 2019 dollars, they are reporting in then year dollars. This would not typically be done by any business and most people do not understand it. It is done by the govt so that they do not have to adjust spending bills every year for inflation. Inflation is assumed to be 1.1% above the CPI inflation of 2.1% for 3.2% total. The 1.1% is a military shipbuilding premium based on historic costs.
The PBO assumes the first ship will start in 2024 and be delivered in ~2025, with the last ship delivered in 2043; a 20 year program (I had to guess on the first delivery date and had to use 2025 to reproduce their numbers). once the inflation is added to the 2019 cost, the total cost comes out to $53.2B
So govt math makes 1.24B USD (comparative cost) turn into 3.55B CAD. They post this and everyone in Canada says "why don't we just buy a Burke, it would be only 2B for a way better ship". But if you do the same math on the Burke you actually get 5.73B each.
The $69.8B total cost is broken down to $5.3B preproduction cost, $53.2B production cost and $11.4B post production (spares etc). So how does $1.9B each inflate up to $53.2B for 15 ships? First off, that is the 9th ship cost, not the first ship cost, and there is an assumed 77.5% learning curve, meaning every doubling of the number of ships the cost is reduced by 77.5%. So the cost for the individual ships is:
1 4.26B
2 3.30B
3 2.85B
4 2.56B
5 2.36B
6 2.21B
7 2.08B
8 1.98B
9 1.90B
10 1.83B
11 1.76B
12 1.71B
13 1.66B
14 1.62B
15 1.57B
On top of this, they are not reporting in 2019 dollars, they are reporting in then year dollars. This would not typically be done by any business and most people do not understand it. It is done by the govt so that they do not have to adjust spending bills every year for inflation. Inflation is assumed to be 1.1% above the CPI inflation of 2.1% for 3.2% total. The 1.1% is a military shipbuilding premium based on historic costs.
The PBO assumes the first ship will start in 2024 and be delivered in ~2025, with the last ship delivered in 2043; a 20 year program (I had to guess on the first delivery date and had to use 2025 to reproduce their numbers). once the inflation is added to the 2019 cost, the total cost comes out to $53.2B
So govt math makes 1.24B USD (comparative cost) turn into 3.55B CAD. They post this and everyone in Canada says "why don't we just buy a Burke, it would be only 2B for a way better ship". But if you do the same math on the Burke you actually get 5.73B each.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The whiners in Ontario, especially TO and Ottawa, not to mention the lower Fraser Valley and Vancouver, think money spent on anything other than unharmed coastal patrol vessels is excessive. Big expensive research vessels are ok though, they are just so PC.
@John Fedup Have you still got the hangover from celebrating the Raptors NBA championship win? You appear extra grumpy.The whiners in Ontario, especially TO and Ottawa, not to mention the lower Fraser Valley and Vancouver, think money spent on anything other than unharmed coastal patrol vessels is excessive. Big expensive research vessels are ok though, they are just so PC.
Think of it this way. We have our left loonies here as well who whinge and complain about defence. Sometimes I think they are born that way and must lead a miserable life, but each to their own. I have the attitude that each morning I wake and I am still breathing is a good day, and we should be thankful we ain't married to one of them whingers. However, they can and do on occasion, provide opportunity for entertainment at their expense, and for such gifts we should be grateful
Think Kopp, Goon and Co if you will, and how much entertainment they have provided here; a comedy of errors so to speak.
Black Jack Shellac
Active Member
Actually John, I was surprised to see how much people were commenting on CBC that we should not worry about the cost and just get the Navy what it needs. Most of the complaints were not what the cost was, but that the Govt (lib or con) can never seem to get the cost right.The whiners in Ontario, especially TO and Ottawa, not to mention the lower Fraser Valley and Vancouver, think money spent on anything other than unharmed coastal patrol vessels is excessive. Big expensive research vessels are ok though, they are just so PC.