Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

foxdemon

Member
What do you mean by "Combat Aerobots" and why do you think it has legal implications ? Let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet, as they have stated it will be performing ISR & EW roles, so no different to any other unmanned platform in that respect.

Cheers

Combat Areobots is just a term for UCAV that I picked up from a science fiction novel that I quite enjoyed. The RAAF is getting into the sci-fi thing too...


Home


The legal implications involve flying unmanned aircraft around. That is a big issue in Europe and America. Not much of an issue at all around Woomera. Possibly Australian air safety rules will more rapidly modernised that in Europe or America once safety standards for automated aircraft have been nutted out.

I still rather suspect it is the exchange rate and all the start ups around the place that has Boeing’s investors slavitating.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Boeing unveils ‘loyal wingman’ drone

I guess we all expect to see this development one day, but to see it announced at Avalon as an Australian/Boeing initiative was a surprise.
Read more about it here:
Boeing unveils ‘loyal wingman’ drone
This came out of the blue ... but it seems to be the sort of program that fits in with the direction the RAAF has been taking for the last decade. It does surprise me that we could see prototypes as soon as next year.

I can see the UK being potentially interested given that it is now on board with the Poisidon and Wedgetail and these aircraft would seem to be a good match for this technology. It wouldn't surprise me if Canada also got involved and maybe NZ. I guess time will tell.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Combat Areobots is just a term for UCAV that I picked up from a science fiction novel that I quite enjoyed. The RAAF is getting into the sci-fi thing too...


Home


The legal implications involve flying unmanned aircraft around. That is a big issue in Europe and America. Not much of an issue at all around Woomera. Possibly Australian air safety rules will more rapidly modernised that in Europe or America once safety standards for automated aircraft have been nutted out.

I still rather suspect it is the exchange rate and all the start ups around the place that has Boeing’s investors slavitating.
Could simply be that the Australian government is now committed to fostering and even partnering our defence export industry. This new drone is very much in the concept stage at the moment and Boeing would be happy to work with anyone willing to share the development costs. The Australian government will initially be investing $40 million but I suspect that might ramp up if the program continues.

When you add to that Australia's traditionally lower exchange rate and that it might also be easier for Boeing to export this technology from Australia rather than the US it seems pretty logical for Boeing to set up production in Australia.
 
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foxdemon

Member
Could simply be that the Australian government is now committed to fostering and even partnering our defence export industry. This new drone is very much in the concept stage at the moment and Boeing would be happy to work with anyone willing to share the development costs. The Australian government will initially be investing $40 million but I suspect that might ramp up if the program continues.

When you add to that Australia's traditionally lower exchange rate and that it might also be easier for Boeing to export this technology from Australia rather than the US it seems pretty logical for Boeing to set up production in Australia.

The start ups matter. The way tech industry works is that start ups turn ideas into a product and big firms buy up the most promising ones, since the big firms have the capital to produce and market those products. So what we are seeing here is that Australia finally has a mature entrepreneurial culture. I think partnering with the big US firms is sensible as we still seem to lack the venture capital culture to match the innovative companies.

I wouldn’t say the BATS is at a concept stage. It is beyond that and now at the prototype stage. As far as I am aware, it is the first loyal wingman concept to go into this stage and might possibly be the first to become operational.


Kudos to all involved.
 

Takao

The Bunker Group
A few questions about airlift.

Is the current airlift fleet (C-17A, C-130J, KC-30A and C-27J) effective for the quick lift of a BG or TF? Since it seems like the ARG is not suited to operating in the SCS (limited self-defence, etc) that leaves airlift as the core deployment capability.

I don't know much about air or airlift, but with the army procuring heavier systems (in which only one vehicle can be carried per C-17A) is it possible to rapidly deploy a mechanised/armoured force quickly to a conflict zone?

Any good sources on the topic would be appreciated, as well as how it may possibly be calculated easily.
Quick lift? For a Battle Group no. For a Combat Team, possibly.

Sustained? In no way.

The problem lies in a few areas. First, what range are you talking about? The KC-30, C-17, C-130 and C-27 all have significant range mismatch. The first two are capable of 'strategic' lifts, the last two are 'tactical' platforms. So if you want to deploy BG HEELER (based on 6 RAR) from Brisbane than all the aircraft can help to go to Shoalwater Bay, some can help to Darwin and only the jets can go beyond New Zealand. Now, you can hop with the props, sure - but that adds time, complexity and logistic issues.

Secondly, time. Props are slower than jets, no matter what. that has two issues - it takes longer get somewhere (reducing any form of surprise and opening up interception options) and the personnel on board are more fatigued. Air travel hurts if doing dismounted ops very soon after landing, props make it worse.

Thirdly, the loads you are talking about are massive. Take a Combat Team for starters. That's a couple of Platoons of infantry, at least a troop of armour and some engineering kit. If your CT is dismounted (and today) this is feasible. 120 odd people, 4ish ASLAV and a batch of Hawkei. That's 2 - 3 C-17s or 6 - 7 C-130. It's a (RAAF) Squadron push, but feasible. Now, take it up a level and talk a mounted CT. Now, it's still ~120 odd personnel... but 4x M1A1 (that's a C-17 each), 10 - 12 M-113 / Boxer (that's 5 - 6 C-17, maybe more depending on how the Boxer load ends up). If you want under-armour breeching and recovery assets, add a C-17 for each. That's at least 16 C-17 loads; or more than twice what the RAAF fleet can launch at once.

Noting that a CT is as small as you would want to go, which elements do you put in first? It will depend on threat - but this is going to take a while. Assuming that a C-17 breaks on at least one hop and you are looking at putting the CT into the Middle East or Butterworth northwards, that's about a week to get everthing into theatre. And to what end? There is no logistic support, aviation support, fires support (other than RAAF). Now, there might be stuff already in-theatre, but in that case why chew up the airfleet when you could just ship them?

A Battlegroup is even crazier. It's a struggle to fit a BG onto the two LHD and LSD. It's at least 14 tanks (plus at least one M88), 30 - 40 other A Veh, 3 - 6 other M1 hulls. There are 600 - 900 people but that's ok as we'll fit them around the vehicles. There may be an arty troop - that's another 2 C-17 (SPH or M-777). So we are looking at 42 C-17 missions at least; probably closer to 50. That's probably 2 weeks of maximum effort from 36 Sqn (assuming nothing goes wrong). The C-130s and C-27s do nothing here - except perhaps fly spares around for the C-17 fleet. Two weeks? You could get an ARG there in that time. So - what's the point?

Fourthly, sustainment. How do you keep this force supplied? You are talking, what 250 000 L of fuel for the BG per week? If that Arty Tp fires a couple of missions, where are their 155 mm shells coming from? Those will require C-17s, they just mass too much. The fuel might be able to come in a KC-30 - assuming that the RAAF let you convert one to carry diesel, but that's only 60kL - so you'll need that KC-30 every 36 hrs (and that doesn't begin to build up a theatre reserve).

Fifthly, the air fleet. This will chew up so much of the air fleet it isn't funny. It's not the weights (C-17s can lift 60 t all day long), it's the hours this chews up. Is it economical to chew up large chunks of hours to lift a small combat force? And as reliable as the aircraft is, and they seem awesome actually, it's going to annoy the fleet managers! Maintaining a stagger will be hard, and if only one or two have random US's than the entire operation is delayed by days and a disproportionate load falls on the remaining aircraft. This will set up a vicious cycle that won't end well. Especially when I need this fleet to keep the CT / BG sustained.

Sixthly, support. I mentioned this before, but what is this CT / BG doing? What support assets are there in theatre? Helicopters? Each Tiger Tp requires 2 C-17 and each Taipan Tp requires 3. Plus 1 for each Sqn or part thereof. CSS? Ambulances are 2 - 4 per C-17, fuel tankers 2 -3 per C-17, general purpose trucks 2 - 4 per C-17. The stores a BG or CT chews through is astounding (beyond the fuel and arty ammo above), so that's probably another 1 - 2 C-17. While the C-17 / KC-30 can return casualties to Australia, the medical element needs 1 - 2 C-17s to go into theatre. A BG doesn't just fight alone..... Also note that I'm relying on the RAAF to deal with their own logistics, somehow those C-17s have to get fuel...

Overall, while it sounds possible, and pictures from Avalon and the like of M-1s on C-17s are cool, it starts to become less possible. When you finally hit the "to what point", it breaks down completely. The CT / BG 'costs' too much to move, takes the same time as by sea and is unsupportable at the end. I didn't tocuh threat (noting other than Afghanistan or simliar land-locked areas, the ARG will always be more survivable than this air mission), but against a semi-capable threat, you'd end up with an airfleet that had been run into the ground and a whole bunch of dead Australians and equipment near some APOD...
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
The start ups matter. The way tech industry works is that start ups turn ideas into a product and big firms buy up the most promising ones, since the big firms have the capital to produce and market those products. So what we are seeing here is that Australia finally has a mature entrepreneurial culture. I think partnering with the big US firms is sensible as we still seem to lack the venture capital culture to match the innovative companies.

I wouldn’t say the BATS is at a concept stage. It is beyond that and now at the prototype stage. As far as I am aware, it is the first loyal wingman concept to go into this stage and might possibly be the first to become operational.


Kudos to all involved.
I have read that it is a four-year development program so if Australia chose to be the launch customer it is quite possible it could see service by the mid 20s

It is a relatively simple airframe and engine so I imagine that as these sorts of programs go it should be fairly straight forward. Australia designed and built the Jindivik target drone I don't think this will be beyond its capabilities.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Quick lift? For a Battle Group no. For a Combat Team, possibly.

Sustained? In no way.

The problem lies in a few areas. First, what range are you talking about? The KC-30, C-17, C-130 and C-27 all have significant range mismatch. The first two are capable of 'strategic' lifts, the last two are 'tactical' platforms. So if you want to deploy BG HEELER (based on 6 RAR) from Brisbane than all the aircraft can help to go to Shoalwater Bay, some can help to Darwin and only the jets can go beyond New Zealand. Now, you can hop with the props, sure - but that adds time, complexity and logistic issues.

Secondly, time. Props are slower than jets, no matter what. that has two issues - it takes longer get somewhere (reducing any form of surprise and opening up interception options) and the personnel on board are more fatigued. Air travel hurts if doing dismounted ops very soon after landing, props make it worse.

Thirdly, the loads you are talking about are massive. Take a Combat Team for starters. That's a couple of Platoons of infantry, at least a troop of armour and some engineering kit. If your CT is dismounted (and today) this is feasible. 120 odd people, 4ish ASLAV and a batch of Hawkei. That's 2 - 3 C-17s or 6 - 7 C-130. It's a (RAAF) Squadron push, but feasible. Now, take it up a level and talk a mounted CT. Now, it's still ~120 odd personnel... but 4x M1A1 (that's a C-17 each), 10 - 12 M-113 / Boxer (that's 5 - 6 C-17, maybe more depending on how the Boxer load ends up). If you want under-armour breeching and recovery assets, add a C-17 for each. That's at least 16 C-17 loads; or more than twice what the RAAF fleet can launch at once.

Noting that a CT is as small as you would want to go, which elements do you put in first? It will depend on threat - but this is going to take a while. Assuming that a C-17 breaks on at least one hop and you are looking at putting the CT into the Middle East or Butterworth northwards, that's about a week to get everthing into theatre. And to what end? There is no logistic support, aviation support, fires support (other than RAAF). Now, there might be stuff already in-theatre, but in that case why chew up the airfleet when you could just ship them?

A Battlegroup is even crazier. It's a struggle to fit a BG onto the two LHD and LSD. It's at least 14 tanks (plus at least one M88), 30 - 40 other A Veh, 3 - 6 other M1 hulls. There are 600 - 900 people but that's ok as we'll fit them around the vehicles. There may be an arty troop - that's another 2 C-17 (SPH or M-777). So we are looking at 42 C-17 missions at least; probably closer to 50. That's probably 2 weeks of maximum effort from 36 Sqn (assuming nothing goes wrong). The C-130s and C-27s do nothing here - except perhaps fly spares around for the C-17 fleet. Two weeks? You could get an ARG there in that time. So - what's the point?

Fourthly, sustainment. How do you keep this force supplied? You are talking, what 250 000 L of fuel for the BG per week? If that Arty Tp fires a couple of missions, where are their 155 mm shells coming from? Those will require C-17s, they just mass too much. The fuel might be able to come in a KC-30 - assuming that the RAAF let you convert one to carry diesel, but that's only 60kL - so you'll need that KC-30 every 36 hrs (and that doesn't begin to build up a theatre reserve).

Fifthly, the air fleet. This will chew up so much of the air fleet it isn't funny. It's not the weights (C-17s can lift 60 t all day long), it's the hours this chews up. Is it economical to chew up large chunks of hours to lift a small combat force? And as reliable as the aircraft is, and they seem awesome actually, it's going to annoy the fleet managers! Maintaining a stagger will be hard, and if only one or two have random US's than the entire operation is delayed by days and a disproportionate load falls on the remaining aircraft. This will set up a vicious cycle that won't end well. Especially when I need this fleet to keep the CT / BG sustained.

Sixthly, support. I mentioned this before, but what is this CT / BG doing? What support assets are there in theatre? Helicopters? Each Tiger Tp requires 2 C-17 and each Taipan Tp requires 3. Plus 1 for each Sqn or part thereof. CSS? Ambulances are 2 - 4 per C-17, fuel tankers 2 -3 per C-17, general purpose trucks 2 - 4 per C-17. The stores a BG or CT chews through is astounding (beyond the fuel and arty ammo above), so that's probably another 1 - 2 C-17. While the C-17 / KC-30 can return casualties to Australia, the medical element needs 1 - 2 C-17s to go into theatre. A BG doesn't just fight alone..... Also note that I'm relying on the RAAF to deal with their own logistics, somehow those C-17s have to get fuel...

Overall, while it sounds possible, and pictures from Avalon and the like of M-1s on C-17s are cool, it starts to become less possible. When you finally hit the "to what point", it breaks down completely. The CT / BG 'costs' too much to move, takes the same time as by sea and is unsupportable at the end. I didn't tocuh threat (noting other than Afghanistan or simliar land-locked areas, the ARG will always be more survivable than this air mission), but against a semi-capable threat, you'd end up with an airfleet that had been run into the ground and a whole bunch of dead Australians and equipment near some APOD...
And under what circumstances would such a Mission occur? While we have seen a big improvement in our Strategic Lift capability’s we are still a long way short of being able to launch such a Military action against anyone that is remotely close to being our Military Peer, the distances are simply too great and simply too much Ocean.
What we have now is a greater capability to support a operation alongside our Allies or launch an Intervention into one of the Pacific Island Nations if things go sour.
 

buffy9

Well-Known Member
Quick lift? For a Battle Group no. For a Combat Team, possibly.

Sustained? In no way.

The problem lies in a few areas. First, what range are you talking about? The KC-30, C-17, C-130 and C-27 all have significant range mismatch. The first two are capable of 'strategic' lifts, the last two are 'tactical' platforms. So if you want to deploy BG HEELER (based on 6 RAR) from Brisbane than all the aircraft can help to go to Shoalwater Bay, some can help to Darwin and only the jets can go beyond New Zealand. Now, you can hop with the props, sure - but that adds time, complexity and logistic issues.

Secondly, time. Props are slower than jets, no matter what. that has two issues - it takes longer get somewhere (reducing any form of surprise and opening up interception options) and the personnel on board are more fatigued. Air travel hurts if doing dismounted ops very soon after landing, props make it worse.

Thirdly, the loads you are talking about are massive. Take a Combat Team for starters. That's a couple of Platoons of infantry, at least a troop of armour and some engineering kit. If your CT is dismounted (and today) this is feasible. 120 odd people, 4ish ASLAV and a batch of Hawkei. That's 2 - 3 C-17s or 6 - 7 C-130. It's a (RAAF) Squadron push, but feasible. Now, take it up a level and talk a mounted CT. Now, it's still ~120 odd personnel... but 4x M1A1 (that's a C-17 each), 10 - 12 M-113 / Boxer (that's 5 - 6 C-17, maybe more depending on how the Boxer load ends up). If you want under-armour breeching and recovery assets, add a C-17 for each. That's at least 16 C-17 loads; or more than twice what the RAAF fleet can launch at once.

Noting that a CT is as small as you would want to go, which elements do you put in first? It will depend on threat - but this is going to take a while. Assuming that a C-17 breaks on at least one hop and you are looking at putting the CT into the Middle East or Butterworth northwards, that's about a week to get everthing into theatre. And to what end? There is no logistic support, aviation support, fires support (other than RAAF). Now, there might be stuff already in-theatre, but in that case why chew up the airfleet when you could just ship them?

A Battlegroup is even crazier. It's a struggle to fit a BG onto the two LHD and LSD. It's at least 14 tanks (plus at least one M88), 30 - 40 other A Veh, 3 - 6 other M1 hulls. There are 600 - 900 people but that's ok as we'll fit them around the vehicles. There may be an arty troop - that's another 2 C-17 (SPH or M-777). So we are looking at 42 C-17 missions at least; probably closer to 50. That's probably 2 weeks of maximum effort from 36 Sqn (assuming nothing goes wrong). The C-130s and C-27s do nothing here - except perhaps fly spares around for the C-17 fleet. Two weeks? You could get an ARG there in that time. So - what's the point?

Fourthly, sustainment. How do you keep this force supplied? You are talking, what 250 000 L of fuel for the BG per week? If that Arty Tp fires a couple of missions, where are their 155 mm shells coming from? Those will require C-17s, they just mass too much. The fuel might be able to come in a KC-30 - assuming that the RAAF let you convert one to carry diesel, but that's only 60kL - so you'll need that KC-30 every 36 hrs (and that doesn't begin to build up a theatre reserve).

Fifthly, the air fleet. This will chew up so much of the air fleet it isn't funny. It's not the weights (C-17s can lift 60 t all day long), it's the hours this chews up. Is it economical to chew up large chunks of hours to lift a small combat force? And as reliable as the aircraft is, and they seem awesome actually, it's going to annoy the fleet managers! Maintaining a stagger will be hard, and if only one or two have random US's than the entire operation is delayed by days and a disproportionate load falls on the remaining aircraft. This will set up a vicious cycle that won't end well. Especially when I need this fleet to keep the CT / BG sustained.

Sixthly, support. I mentioned this before, but what is this CT / BG doing? What support assets are there in theatre? Helicopters? Each Tiger Tp requires 2 C-17 and each Taipan Tp requires 3. Plus 1 for each Sqn or part thereof. CSS? Ambulances are 2 - 4 per C-17, fuel tankers 2 -3 per C-17, general purpose trucks 2 - 4 per C-17. The stores a BG or CT chews through is astounding (beyond the fuel and arty ammo above), so that's probably another 1 - 2 C-17. While the C-17 / KC-30 can return casualties to Australia, the medical element needs 1 - 2 C-17s to go into theatre. A BG doesn't just fight alone..... Also note that I'm relying on the RAAF to deal with their own logistics, somehow those C-17s have to get fuel...

Overall, while it sounds possible, and pictures from Avalon and the like of M-1s on C-17s are cool, it starts to become less possible. When you finally hit the "to what point", it breaks down completely. The CT / BG 'costs' too much to move, takes the same time as by sea and is unsupportable at the end. I didn't tocuh threat (noting other than Afghanistan or simliar land-locked areas, the ARG will always be more survivable than this air mission), but against a semi-capable threat, you'd end up with an airfleet that had been run into the ground and a whole bunch of dead Australians and equipment near some APOD...
As big as the airlift fleet is, it still is limited...

I'm aware sealift/amohibious lift is much better around Oceania and Southeast Asia, was referring more to challenges "further out" in South Asia, East Asia or the Middle East - places the ARG might not be able to go in a more major conflict.

Even if Australia will never operate independently in these regions, it still seems worthwhile to invest in an airlift fleet that can more reliably deploy and support our own forces. To at least "carry out weight."

An eye opener.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The legal implications involve flying unmanned aircraft around. That is a big issue in Europe and America. Not much of an issue at all around Woomera. Possibly Australian air safety rules will more rapidly modernised that in Europe or America once safety standards for automated aircraft have been nutted out.
Not sure what "Legal Implications" you are speaking about ? what legalities does this particular project and platform need to overcome that is not already in place for any other unmanned platform that any country already operate ?

Cheers
 

foxdemon

Member
Not sure what "Legal Implications" you are speaking about ? what legalities does this particular project and platform need to overcome that is not already in place for any other unmanned platform that any country already operate ?

Cheers

Boeing Australia believes there is a need for responsive regulators to facilitate the adoption of autonomous systems.

Boeing is launching a huge autonomous drone research project in Australia

Do current regulations cover fully autonomous stealth aircraft? Boeing believe Australian regulators are sufficiently progressive as to be a deciding factor in choice of location. You could contact them directly for a fuller explanation.


This is a serious defence forum, not a sci-fi fanboy site. Whilst you are on here, use the appropriate terminology.

My apologies for upsetting people. However, the term ‘UCAV’ is generic. This includes RPVs to fully autonomous aircraft in the same way that the term ‘military aircraft’ is also generic and includes everything for helicopters to fast combat jets. So, what is the correct terminology that distinguish a fully autonomous combat aircraft from other types of UCAV?
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Loyal Wingman to take Australia’s airpower into the next era | The Strategist

In this piece, Malcolm Davis takes a look at the Loyal Wingman and how it will shape Australia's air power going into the future.

He touches on one aspect which I think might be an issue going forward and that is autonomous armed vehicles. The Loyal Wingman will have a weapons bay and it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it may one day carry weapons. Whether there will be a public outcry when the general public realises the difference been autonomous and unmanned remains to be seen.

It will be (hopefully) relatively cheap and easy to manufacture. This would give Australia the option of beefing up the size of the airforce and of course in a real crisis quickly ramp up production. The force multiplier effect is also important even if the Loyal Wingman isn't armed.
 

Milne Bay

Active Member
Loyal Wingman to take Australia’s airpower into the next era | The Strategist

In this piece, Malcolm Davis takes a look at the Loyal Wingman and how it will shape Australia's air power going into the future.

He touches on one aspect which I think might be an issue going forward and that is autonomous armed vehicles. The Loyal Wingman will have a weapons bay and it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it may one day carry weapons. Whether there will be a public outcry when the general public realises the difference been autonomous and unmanned remains to be seen.

It will be (hopefully) relatively cheap and easy to manufacture. This would give Australia the option of beefing up the size of the airforce and of course in a real crisis quickly ramp up production. The force multiplier effect is also important even if the Loyal Wingman isn't armed.
This program must have been in the works for some time if there is going to be a first flight next year,
Where will it be built?
Will be interesting to watch its progress
MB
 

oldsig127

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
This program must have been in the works for some time if there is going to be a first flight next year,
Where will it be built?
Will be interesting to watch its progress
MB
The earliest articles said it would be built here - Brisbane/Ipswich - where Boeing already has a major presence.

oldsig
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Loyal Wingman to take Australia’s airpower into the next era | The Strategist

In this piece, Malcolm Davis takes a look at the Loyal Wingman and how it will shape Australia's air power going into the future.

He touches on one aspect which I think might be an issue going forward and that is autonomous armed vehicles. The Loyal Wingman will have a weapons bay and it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it may one day carry weapons. Whether there will be a public outcry when the general public realises the difference been autonomous and unmanned remains to be seen.

It will be (hopefully) relatively cheap and easy to manufacture. This would give Australia the option of beefing up the size of the airforce and of course in a real crisis quickly ramp up production. The force multiplier effect is also important even if the Loyal Wingman isn't armed.
An armed RPAS with AI, without a human in the loop will create a huge ethics and moral dilemma and rightly so. It is something that will need to be discussed thoroughly throughout society and internationally, with a robust ethical and legal framework designed and constructed, before such capabilities are sanctioned and released.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
An armed RPAS with AI, without a human in the loop will create a huge ethics and moral dilemma and rightly so. It is something that will need to be discussed thoroughly throughout society and internationally, with a robust ethical and legal framework designed and constructed, before such capabilities are sanctioned and released.
Agreed ... the problem is not all countries might be that concerned about the ethical and moral dilemmas. The cynic in me thinks the US may want Australia to take the lead in the development of this technology for that very reason.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
An armed RPAS with AI, without a human in the loop will create a huge ethics and moral dilemma and rightly so. It is something that will need to be discussed thoroughly throughout society and internationally, with a robust ethical and legal framework designed and constructed, before such capabilities are sanctioned and released.
All very true and well, but no where has it been stated that this is or will be an armed platform, it has a mission bay as stated by both Defmin and Boeing.

It was, IIRC, the ABC who being the usual highest standard reporters in the nation tried to make a link with the mission bay and being able to carry weapons.

They are drawing a long bow as usual, from both the Defmin and Boeing releases and statements, it will be an ISR & EW platform.

That is not to say that armed versions could not be developed, but I can't see Australia being the nation to test the above notions

Cheers
 

MickB

Well-Known Member
An armed RPAS with AI, without a human in the loop will create a huge ethics and moral dilemma and rightly so. It is something that will need to be discussed thoroughly throughout society and internationally, with a robust ethical and legal framework designed and constructed, before such capabilities are sanctioned and released.
If a strike version was required could a hybrid approach be taken. With a human entering the loop only to give a final "go or no go" strike authority on approaching the target.
Or would this defeat the purpose of the project.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
If a strike version was required could a hybrid approach be taken. With a human entering the loop only to give a final "go or no go" strike authority on approaching the target.
Or would this defeat the purpose of the project.
I for one would hope that a human in the loop is always the option, but as to the second part of your comment, at the present point in time any details of a strike variant are not in the public domain, nor AFAIK have any details be released about any proposals for CONOPS for such capabilities.
 
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