Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

Some exciting news. Some of you have probably seen the below tweet:

Boeing Australia on Twitter

The "BIG announcement" to be made at Avalon in the above tweet from Boeing Australia has been revealed:

First glimpse at combat drone set to join Australia's military arsenal

A large drone designed for electronic warfare, which could eventually carry bombs, will be publicly unveiled today after being secretly developed with the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF).

Key points:

• The drone is the first combat aircraft designed and developed in Australia in more than 50 years
• The cost of the project has not been revealed, but it is believed to be Boeing's largest investment in drones outside the US
• Once fully developed, the drone could eventually be exported to other nations, sources said

The unmanned system is roughly the size of a traditional jet fighter and was quietly developed in Brisbane by aerospace giant Boeing, in collaboration with the RAAF and the Defence Department.

A prototype of the yet-to-be-named unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) is expected to be unveiled this morning by Defence Minister Christopher Pyne at the Avalon aerospace trade show outside Melbourne.

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Exciting to say the least, and wholly impressive that it's gotten so far without a word leaking out. The future is looking good!

Pretty exciting news for Australia’s aerospace industry! Hopefully it doesn’t get stuffed up like Canadian military aerospace projects from years ago.

Have we ordered the version of the Predator that we are supposed to be getting yet?

It would appear that this new drone will do all and more than the predator.

hairyman said:

Have we ordered the version of the Predator that we are supposed to be getting yet?

It would appear that this new drone will do all and more than the predator.

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Looks like a different mission set. Reaper hangs out for a very long time.

This thing if you believe the media will team with 4/5th gen fighters as a “loyal wingman”.

The difference is evident looking at the size and shape, which belies different airframe characteristics suited to role.

A question is what will fit in that internal bay in the "wingman role" ,as a wingman would it be envisioned to accompany all types of R.A.A.F aircraft and be controlled by those aircraft ,it appears to have low observable features has this to be confirmed ?

Boeing unveils a new breed of ‘wingman’ drones that fly with piloted military jets

Apparently it has a range of 2000nm, so I’m estimating a combat range of 6/700nm, would that be about right

t68 said:

Boeing unveils a new breed of ‘wingman’ drones that fly with piloted military jets

Apparently it has a range of 2000nm, so I’m estimating a combat range of 6/700nm, would that be about right

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This article has an image said to be of a 'mock up' in a hangar Boeing’s ‘Wingman’ drone buddies up with pilot-flown jets
Bit different in look to the video in the presser. A remarkably forward looking project for the ADF. Fingers crossed they can pull it off. Most articles describe it as for recon and unarmed, but that doesn't really fit in fully with the 'loyal wingman' concept. Interesting times.

John Fedup said:

Pretty exciting news for Australia’s aerospace industry! Hopefully it doesn’t get stuffed up like Canadian military aerospace projects from years ago.

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Hi John - if you refer to the magnificent Avro Arrow I agree that its demise was a great national tragedy - except it's development was being concluded in the shadow of Sputnik and the emergent threat of ICBMs. I was very sad yet wise to cancel a project that could not beat the latest game in town.

SteveR said:

Hi John - if you refer to the magnificent Avro Arrow I agree that its demise was a great national tragedy - except it's development was being concluded in the shadow of Sputnik and the emergent threat of ICBMs. I was very sad yet wise to cancel a project that could not beat the latest game in town.

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Steve, you are starting to sound like goon and APA, they loved the Arrow and were and still are devastated by its demise

SteveR said:

Hi John - if you refer to the magnificent Avro Arrow I agree that its demise was a great national tragedy - except it's development was being concluded in the shadow of Sputnik and the emergent threat of ICBMs. I was very sad yet wise to cancel a project that could not beat the latest game in town.

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Not so much about the the Arrow itself but rather about Avro Canada itself. Due to brain dead pollies and Avro Canada’s cement-head CEO, the talent and technology that created the Jetliner, Arrow, and Iroquois jet engine were literally destroyed. The latter item was perhaps the greatest loss . Canada’s loss was NASA’s gain and some of Avro’s talent also ended up working on Concord. Back to the RAAF.

Boeing unveils ‘loyal wingman’ drone

I guess we all expect to see this development one day, but to see it announced at Avalon as an Australian/Boeing initiative was a surprise.
Read more about it here:
Boeing unveils ‘loyal wingman’ drone

Milne Bay said:

Boeing unveils ‘loyal wingman’ drone

I guess we all expect to see this development one day, but to see it announced at Avalon as an Australian/Boeing initiative was a surprise.
Read more about it here:
Boeing unveils ‘loyal wingman’ drone

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It is certainly an interesting development. But why Australia?

It seems Boeing is interested in the legal side of operating combat aerobots, which seems easier to arrange in Oz than in the USA. I suspect the number of start ups and institutional support locally is also a temptation for Boeing. Finally, the exchange rate makes Australian built drones cheaper for the US and UK markets. It remains to be seen if America will allow defence imports but it is not impossible that suitable arrangements could be organised.

The mention of exports to 5 eyes nations makes me wonder in Boeing has Canada and NZ in mind for more sales.

foxdemon said:

It is certainly an interesting development. But why Australia?

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I would imagine that the fact that the Australian Govt put in about 40% of the money would help them decide. And that we already use EF-18G, P-8 and Wedgetail, all Boeing products slated as operating with it and that the ADF is pushing further and faster than the US towards a fully networked armed forces (partly due to size making it easier to change, but also through conscious decision).

Such cooperative development between the RAAF and Boeing are hardly unknown. Wedgetail is a perfect example, and like that aircraft Boeing will hope to leverage our interest and funding to their future profits.

oldsig

I think Canada may be more inclined to go with GA assuming the government wants combat drones. Boeing might luck in with a P-8 and drone package if junior fails in Oct or earlier due to his SNC Lavin mess.

Just a quick question, can the F18F's use assram?

old faithful said:

Just a quick question, can the F18F's use assram?

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ASRAAM - No - only integrated with the Classic Hornets.
The F/A 18F uses AIM-9X
Weapons: Missiles a big hit | ADM Sep 08 - Australian Defence Magazine

old faithful said:

Just a quick question, can the F18F's use assram?

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RAAF says AIM-9X for short range, and AIM-120 (AMRAAM) for BVR. I doubt if they'd bothered with the complications of having AIM-9X if they were capable of using ASRAAM which is the choice for the legacy Hornets,

oldsig

(Edit: Sorry MB, you posted while I was typing)

WRT the recently announced loyal wingman concept. Given that it is envisaged that the first vehicles will be unarmed but EW/ISR tasked I wonder whether thought has gone into integration with the coming Next Generation Jammer from Raytheon?
The force multiplier effect for RAAF's pool of 11 Growler's would be enhanced, and may be a reason why there appears no rush to replace the 12th Growler that was lost.
If no NGJ for loyal wingman then what for an EW asset?
Regards
rb

A few questions about airlift.

Is the current airlift fleet (C-17A, C-130J, KC-30A and C-27J) effective for the quick lift of a BG or TF? Since it seems like the ARG is not suited to operating in the SCS (limited self-defence, etc) that leaves airlift as the core deployment capability.

I don't know much about air or airlift, but with the army procuring heavier systems (in which only one vehicle can be carried per C-17A) is it possible to rapidly deploy a mechanised/armoured force quickly to a conflict zone?

Any good sources on the topic would be appreciated, as well as how it may possibly be calculated easily.

And in regards to the "Wingman," is Australia's aviation industry even remotely capable of producing such a fleet (12-16)?

foxdemon said:

It seems Boeing is interested in the legal side of operating combat aerobots, which seems easier to arrange in Oz than in the USA

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What do you mean by "Combat Aerobots" and why do you think it has legal implications ? Let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet, as they have stated it will be performing ISR & EW roles, so no different to any other unmanned platform in that respect.

Cheers