It's a floating drydock, why couldn't the Chinese build one for us? In the height of the cold war the Sweden built PD-50 for Russia.Have you been smoking that Te Puke Thunder again cuzzy bro? She's mean stuff that. Gives you terrible munchies enabling you to scoff a whole hangi on your own.
For something like that I'd prefer the South Koreans now because it would now have to be classified as nationally strategic infrastructure.
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
- Start date
We aren't a neutral where the PRC are concerned, but Sweden was theoretically a neutral during the Cold War. If the Soviets viewed Sweden as a potential threat in a war against the West, Sweden would have been attacked regardless of whether it was non aligned or not. I think that post 1945 the Swedes would've been well overrun, because the Soviet Forces post 1945 weren't the Soviet Forces of 1939, who had their arses handed to them on a plate by the Finns. From 1944 - 1991 Soviet Forces were a formidable foe who you had to treat with a lot of respect because if you didn't you were in deep trouble.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Crew size given is 122 with room for up to 160. But like any current Frigate on the Market they will be Modular and it would be up to the individual Navy how much capability it will have. Fit it with all the Bells and Whistles it will be expensive, fit it for but not with and it will be a lot cheaper.
Aren't we starting to see some very interesting designs, of course starting with the Zumwalts, then the French FTI and now the Omega design, people are certainly getting creative.
If we can purchase Chinese steel for building and Chinese Locomotives I don’t see any issue with allowing the Chinese to bid on a floating drydock. It’s not like they are building us naval vessels. The other option is is to dig one out somewhere but that will cost significantly more.
Interestingly the plans I saw for moving the Auckland Port to the Firth of Thames included an actual gravelling dock.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
To be serious, im wary of Chinas belt Road initiative, cheap builds and loading nations up with debt.
Speaking of Rail contracts, i have a brother working for transrail Austraila, as a safety inspector in Queensland most of his life knows full well of issues they are having with Chinese builds, as well as issues we are having with ours.
What about all the high speed derailment of new built Chinese trains and skyscrapers, that keep collapsing, hitting the headlines abroad?
I think Govt is planning of having jobs like this contracted offshore for quick, cheap solutions when we should be providing the work and forking out the extra needed to keep our builders and engineers home, and stimulate the local economy. We can't afford a multi billion dollar stuff up, and potential loss of life.
We have very good heavy engineering and steel fabrication capabilities in this country built up over the years doing work on major industrial, energy and civil projects, some much more complex and sophisticated than a floating dock. Quite a few thousand of them will soon be out of work what with the madness of the government politically crippling the Oil and Gas sector. We used to build our own trains up until a few years ago but the conventional wisdom was that it was cheaper to build them in China and save thus lots of money.
This country has a government appointed Chief Scientist, is looking for a Chief Technologist - maybe we also need a Chief Engineer - to explain and co-ordinate the major benefits of large scale engineering and infrastructural projects with as much of the work being done locally as part of national growth strategy.
We haven't built a train for decades, and those we did assemble were CKD kits from abroad. Hillside did built some carriages but building carriages and building trains are like the difference between building a car and building a caravan. We did design and build steam trains, but how long ago was that??? The next question is where would you fabricate a floating dock big enough for our needs in NZ, that one really has be scratching my head. The other option is digging a big hole in the ground and putting some doors at one end, this we could do if a suitable location could be found that wouldn't upset anyone.
Sorry, I am not a train buff, I did not realise they were CKD's they built at Hillside.
Plenty of places with hectares of unused industrial portside land like Whangarei harbour and the demolished New Plymouth Power Station site right next door to Port Taranaki.
Like at the above locations.
If we were to go down that path then the OMT F370 Iver Huitfeld variant would be the better proposition because it's a proven and licensed design, so we can build with whom and where we want. Damen and / or the Dutch Govt may want the build done in Dutch yards. No disrespect to Damen, but the OMT design is more upgrade and maintenance friendly than most current warships, and that is a significant cost and time saver on its own.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Its the size of a FREMM and is based on the De Provincien Class which just lost out to the T26 in the Canadian CSC competition so we are talking about a large Frigate.
Yes, I know. Did I say otherwise? All I said was that it was like a T26 lite, with it's central mission bay and hybrid electric propulsion, but lower length and displacement.
Since Damen say it's going to be part of a product family, I assume there will be possible smaller and/or larger versions (or it won't be much of a family).
The latest Navy Today has a story on the Aotearoa build starting on page 8. On page 10, the inspector superintendent for the build who is Swedish and part of an independent Marine Project Management company said regarding building AOTEAROA in Europe “It would cost three, four times the money. Three times the duration. In Asia, they don’t want to lose face. They work regardless of what obstacles we have."
The MOD Project Manager, "Mr Davis explains that HHI, with about 4000 workers, have cut down on overtime and have strictly enforced breaks. Even computers won’t unlock until 8am, and will shut down at 5pm, regardless of what you had on the screen. "It’s very impressive, the speed that it’s going," he says. “It gives me a buzz to see it physically, to see how a multicrane moves a 200-tonne piece of steel around. The Koreans, they just get in, do the job. There’s a lot of pride in their workmanship, a lot of passion. Our job is to make sure it gets delivered, certified, matching the design, and we get what we paid for." "
So now you understand why some of us are keen on having future RNZN ships built in Korea.
The MOD Project Manager, "Mr Davis explains that HHI, with about 4000 workers, have cut down on overtime and have strictly enforced breaks. Even computers won’t unlock until 8am, and will shut down at 5pm, regardless of what you had on the screen. "It’s very impressive, the speed that it’s going," he says. “It gives me a buzz to see it physically, to see how a multicrane moves a 200-tonne piece of steel around. The Koreans, they just get in, do the job. There’s a lot of pride in their workmanship, a lot of passion. Our job is to make sure it gets delivered, certified, matching the design, and we get what we paid for." "
So now you understand why some of us are keen on having future RNZN ships built in Korea.
I really should subscribe to this publication as it is really hard at present to get a copy in Hobart. I always enjoyed reading it and even contributed photos in the past!
Tas
I subscribe, look up Topmill Press for relative info
Hopefully the Aotearoa build will be such a good experience for the MOD that HHI will be at the top of their list for future builds.
Why would you want to tie DoD to a single provider? Don't forget they (and Daewoo) were close to going to the wall recently and were tainted with corruption. Shipbuilding is still in the doldrums so I would suggest your avid support of any yard needs to be moderate by:
1. What you want to build; and
2. Can they deliver what you want when you want it.
Korea have certanly build some impressive vessels but the efficiency of their large yards is dependent on the merchant tonnage that is their bread and butter. If world trade goes south then they will be under pressure. I would point to Hyundia marine as a prime example of a stellar performer bought low as they did not anticipate what would happen in the market.
Who builds the new tonnage for RNZN will depend on the requirements and packages offered by bulders noting hull and machinery are only part of the package.
Pro tip: There's an online version available via the NZDF.mil website. Follow links to RNZN > Read Navy Today.
I think he's talking about Australian Warship not Navy today.