Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions

John Fedup said:

With the announcement that used Hornets will be purchased from Australia, it comes as no surprise that rumours are surfacing that junior will further delay a competition for new jets until after the next election, yet another abandoned commitment. Hundreds of millions will be wasted trying keep a geriatric Hornet fleet operational until he can fool the electorate that Canada doesn't need fast jets anymore.

Feds planning to push back delivery date for new fighter jets: sources | Calgary Herald

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"“But at the end of the day, when you’re buying heavily used, 30-year-old aircraft, you’re buying heavily used 30-year-old aircraft.”"


That's a bloody genius quote

Unfortunately a statement that junior can’t comprehend along with his moron infested cabinet.

If Junior has a shovel and a map he might be able to pick up some free F-111s.

https://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2014/12/raaf-f-111-bombers-buried-swanbank-landfill-australia/

He would have lighten has shovel first and who knows how long it would take to wash the BS off.

If you're wanting a real belly laugh, there's a pile of Arrow animated videos appearing about how the Arrow is still the best choice for Canada. Youtube, never change

I am waiting for the Downfall video segment of Hitler finding out the arrow program has been cancelled.

The RAAF F/18-Classic acquisition plan must be close to getting inked as Boeing have now released the following Media Statement. In summary I think they are saying that we know the deal is on and we won't block it but they will not be changing their stance on product subsidies from trading partners.

"We have read reports that the Government of Canada is choosing to purchase used F/A-18 Classic Hornets from the Royal Australian Air Force in lieu of new Super Hornet fighter jets.

The Boeing Company respects the Canadian government’s decision and applauds the government’s continued use of a two engine fighter solution, which is a critical part of their northern Arctic border defense, NORAD cooperation, and coast to coast to coast security.

Although we will not have the opportunity to grow our supply base, industrial partnerships and jobs in Canada the way we would if Canada purchased new Super Hornets, we will continue to look to find productive ways to work together in the future. Boeing is fortunate to have an outstanding 100 years of partnership with Canada, which had culminated in our $4B annual economic impact in Canada, and we look forward to partnering for the next 100 years.

Our commitment to creating a level playing field in aerospace remains. Therefore, we will continue to support all efforts to build an environment of free and fair competition marked by compliance with agreed upon rules."

pgclift said:

The RAAF F/18-Classic acquisition plan must be close to getting inked as Boeing have now released the following Media Statement. In summary I think they are saying that we know the deal is on and we won't block it but they will not be changing their stance on product subsidies from trading partners.

"We have read reports that the Government of Canada is choosing to purchase used F/A-18 Classic Hornets from the Royal Australian Air Force in lieu of new Super Hornet fighter jets.

The Boeing Company respects the Canadian government’s decision and applauds the government’s continued use of a two engine fighter solution, which is a critical part of their northern Arctic border defense, NORAD cooperation, and coast to coast to coast security.

Although we will not have the opportunity to grow our supply base, industrial partnerships and jobs in Canada the way we would if Canada purchased new Super Hornets, we will continue to look to find productive ways to work together in the future. Boeing is fortunate to have an outstanding 100 years of partnership with Canada, which had culminated in our $4B annual economic impact in Canada, and we look forward to partnering for the next 100 years.

Our commitment to creating a level playing field in aerospace remains. Therefore, we will continue to support all efforts to build an environment of free and fair competition marked by compliance with agreed upon rules."

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I am not sure when the classic hornets will be available to Canada.

No 3 squadron will probably start getting the F-35 from next year with IOC expected by 2021. I am not sure whether or not means that the F-18s might start to become available from next year or whether they may be held for a few years until IOC is achieved with the F-35.

I think it is safe to assume that the worst frames will probably be retired the first.

I am wondering what will happen with the B models however. If the RAAF starts moving over to the F-35 it may retire a few of the F-18B a little earlier.

An airforce friend of mine says that the B models are in far better nick than the A models.

So, I thought Canada had a larger fleet of Hornets of which some were mothballed and others brought up to current standard - are there any which could be refurbished or have they all got a lot of time on them?

I'm still trying to get my head around the idea that the Canadian Govt is looking to buy second hand air frames of the same vintage that they already have.

I think the original total was about 138 jets. There have been a number of losses over the years and the fleet is down to 80 jets of which have various degrees of upgrading. I believe 40 jets had centre barrel replacement. Of this number only twenty are likely available at any given time. The 40 remaining are apparently going to be further upgraded to last out to 2025 but as usual minimal details are in the public domain.

The plan for replacement was 65 new jets which the Libeeals jacked up to 88. I wonder how many used Hornets need to be added to the 40 in order for the RCAF to meet its commitment ls? Last year, 18 SHs was the number. I am guessing a new SH has a better readiness level than a 35 year old Hornet, something junior could care less about.

hauritz said:

I am not sure when the classic hornets will be available to Canada.

No 3 squadron will probably start getting the F-35 from next year with IOC expected by 2021.

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For what it's worth 3SQN made a "Hornet Farewell" flypast last week. As I understand it, the next eight F-35 will be delivered directly to 3SQN in the USA during next year. There are already photos of the first of them (A35-003) on the net, completed and awaiting flight testing before handover

oldsi

StobieWan said:

So, I thought Canada had a larger fleet of Hornets of which some were mothballed and others brought up to current standard - are there any which could be refurbished or have they all got a lot of time on them?

I'm still trying to get my head around the idea that the Canadian Govt is looking to buy second hand air frames of the same vintage that they already have.

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Hi Mate,

As I understand it, Canada's original purchase was 138 airframes, 98 A and 40 B. In the early 2000's they upgraded 80 airframes, 62 A and 18 B (putting aside 'structural' upgrades for the moment), the 'system' upgrades were very similar to the upgrades performed on the RAAF's 71 remaining A and B airframes.

Of the original 138, 20 have been lost, some of those were upgraded too, and the remaining 'approx' 40 airframes were never upgraded, (I think the current 'active' fleet is 77 airframes).

Bringing that forward to today.... it does make sense that if the Canadian Governments wants to expand their Classic fleet, then yes the obvious choice is second hand RAAF Classic Hornets, simply because their 'systems' were upgraded to a very similar configuration (and the RAAF airframes are a 'few' years younger than the RCAF airframes).

I would imagine that those 'non upgraded' airframes that have been sitting around for well more than a decade (how well they were stored, who knows?) may not be in the best shape. I would also imagine that even 'if' there were some good airframes with 'low hours' identified, that it would still mean a very significant (and possibly expensive) path to travel.

Easier to just purchase some of the RAAF's Classic fleet (which is a similar configuration) and make minimal changes.


A good example of something similar, is when the Australian Government purchased 15 of the (then) recently retired USAF F-111G's (converted FB-111A's), my understanding was that the FB-111A's followed the RAAF's F-111C's down the GD production line back in 1967-68.

The G's also had the same long span wings, the same heavy undercarriage, and when they had their 'avionics' upgrade and were converted from FB's to G's that the avionics package upgrade was very similar to the upgrade package on the RAAF's F-111C's.

So it all makes sense (do I think the Canadian Government are being cheap bastards and not committing to the F-35A? Yes I do!!).

And if they are being cheap bastards, then yes, procuring some 'pre-loved' Classic Hornets from the RAAF is probably the way to go.

Cheers,

IMHO, this interim purchase of used Hornets is nothing more than a pathway to an eventual exit out of the fast jet business by junior if he is re-elected. Unfortunately he will be.

Canada has announced an open fighter competition for their CF-18 replacement. However it has some caveats: “But we’ve been very clear with this new policy. If there’s economic harm to Canada, if there’s an impact on Canadian jobs, if there’s an impact to some of the key sectors of the Canadian economy, you will be at a distinct disadvantage.”. It is intended to acquire 88 aircraft with a RFP being issued in spring 2019 and the decision by 2022.

I will not hold my breath and it may be probable that my grandkids will be collecting their pensions before these new aircraft go IOC with the RCAF. My oldest grandkid is 14.

Sounds like "Comrade Canada" might be in the market for MIGs or Suhkoi's (tongue firmly in cheek!)

First 2 RAAF Classic Hornets to be delivered to the RCAF in the first half of 2019 subject to US approval. The rest will be delivered as more RAAF F-35s come online.

https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/minister/marise-payne/media-releases/sale-australian-classic-hornets-canada

old faithful said:

Sounds like "Comrade Canada" might be in the market for MIGs or Suhkoi's (tongue firmly in cheek!)

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At their current rate, they could buy some used MiG 21s from the Indians, who I suspect will have sunsetted them for..something...before Canada makes a decision.

More details on the "Potential Harm" criteria that Canada now has for all defence purchases. They sure know how to find a hard way of doing things.

I wonder, isn't Boeing is the supplier of classical hornet as well? In that logic, would they terminate all support contract and ground their whole hornet fleet?

ngatimozart said:

More details on the "Potential Harm" criteria that Canada now has for all defence purchases. They sure know how to find a hard way of doing things.

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I'd say this has got European solution written all over it unless he backflips on F35, Also could be a hint towards Lockheed not to move any F35 production whilst they are bidding. All foreign companies might have to consider is it worth the hassle with all the obstacles being put in place by the Canadian government.