F-35 Program - General Discussion

bdique

Member
Would it be more cost-effective for the US to employ a mass fires solution in lieu of swarms of PGMs in some scenarios? I was unaware of the following engagement but the Russians apparently employed thermobaric weapons to good effect.

How the Pentagon is Preparing for a Tank War With Russia - Defense One

Munitions have advanced incredibly since then. One of the most terrifying weapons that the Russians are using on the battlefield are thermobaric warheads, weapons that are composed almost entirely of fuel and burn longer and with more intensity than other types of munitions.

“In a 3-minute period…a Russian fire strike wiped out two mechanized battalions [with] a combination of top-attack munitions and thermobaric warheads,” said Karber. “If you have not experienced or seen the effects of thermobaric warheads, start taking a hard look. They might soon be coming to a theater near you.”
Weapons like the CLU-97 and the BLU-82 already exist in the US inventory.

Personally, I think the more interesting question to ask is "can a single F35 achieve massed fires effect without carrying the aforementioned munitions"
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Trump is demanding Canada improve its defence capabilities but his rhetoric about the SH as a competitor to the F-35 just gives junior cover to squander our scarce defence dollars on the incorrect choice for our fighter replacement requirement. I guess Trump and junior do have something in common, their jetfighter expertise.:D
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Trump is demanding Canada improve its defence capabilities but his rhetoric about the SH as a competitor to the F-35 just gives junior cover to squander our scarce defence dollars on the incorrect choice for our fighter replacement requirement. I guess Trump and junior do have something in common, their jetfighter expertise.:D
Perception is everything in politics, if Trump endorses SH over F35 it legitimizes Canadian goverment decisions.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
There is a great deal of research going into quantum computing and its applications, of which quantum radar is one. DRFM is an important technique for electronic countermeasure against radar. IIRC, this approach modifies the enemy's radar return signal fooling them on location. A quantum radar can't be fooled by DRFM. The part I am not sure about is why a quantum radar would be any better at reflecting a return signal off a stealth jet. It's value against ECM is real.

As for Chinese claims, perhaps it is "fake news", maybe not. They have tons of money and thousands of computer tech people who could be harnessed to develop this.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
As for Chinese claims, perhaps it is "fake news", maybe not. They have tons of money and thousands of computer tech people who could be harnessed to develop this.
Gee Trump certantly got the lexicon going with "fake news"
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Could this be the death of the vaunted F35 program?

China’s Claim It Has ‘Quantum’ Radar May Leave $17 Billion F-35 Naked (excerpt)

The whole technology is beyond me. Is this sabre rattling on the Chinese part or is there substance to the claim?
yep, just like the death of the aircraft carrier by chinese ballistics AShM

Except that in both examples china is still beavering away with LO aircraft and now happily building more aircraft carriers

and the russians dismissal of LO still has them developing their LO successors as well as now announcing LO long range bombers....

as both are nowhere near the systems development that makes LO platforms effective it reinforces for me that they're responding to the platform - when the platform is part of a greater but necessary substantial combat and sensor bubble

to paraphrase the "5th Dimension" - "I have a doubt....."
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
"Fake news" is more PC for his faith based/born again type supporters rather than bovine fecal matter or bull $hit.:D
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
@novascotiaboy. I should have mentioned that quantum computing's most important application will be encryption.
 

Toblerone

Banned Member
The F-35 guarantees USA's technological air superiority for the coming decades and no "radical" "quantum" radar or silver bullet tech will change the reality. As the F-35 will be fielded, battle tested and constantly improved the russians and the chinese will be fumbling around with their LO designs and AESA radars, always lagging behind.

And there will be many rich countries to shovel coal into the engine of the F-35 train. Even Canada will fall in line eventually.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The F-35 guarantees USA's technological air superiority for the coming decades and no "radical" "quantum" radar or silver bullet tech will change the reality. As the F-35 will be fielded, battle tested and constantly improved the russians and the chinese will be fumbling around with their LO designs and AESA radars, always lagging behind.

And there will be many rich countries to shovel coal into the engine of the F-35 train. Even Canada will fall in line eventually.
Most sophisticated technologies will have a reasonable shelf life but to say some radical new technology couldn't pop up tomorrow as opposed to many decades is somewhat optimistic. An example is the first Gulf War when the Iraqis had a WTF moment with the F-117s. It's been almost 30 years. Who knows what is coming next?

As for Canada falling into line with the F-35, I can only hope.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Finally, people are starting to get it...

although what has been left out in clear terms is that F35 is also a defacto battlespace manager, defacto AEW comms bearer, defacto smaller footprint AWACs and a guided weapons redirector - and that its importance is across the purple combat bubble, not just the immediate threat area

The F-35 in the Second Nuclear Age | RealClearDefense
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Finally, people are starting to get it...

although what has been left out in clear terms is that F35 is also a defacto battlespace manager, defacto AEW comms bearer, defacto smaller footprint AWACs and a guided weapons redirector - and that its importance is across the purple combat bubble, not just the immediate threat area

The F-35 in the Second Nuclear Age | RealClearDefense
"Some" people are starting to get it while others still don't, i.e. the shoot down of a single F-117 over Serbia in the 90s is still given as evidence that LO or "stealth" doesn't work. The faulty thinking with that example being two fold, one the loss was due to operational reasons that permitted the Serbs to set up an ambush in a well used flight path. Two, people who tout the vulnerability of 5th gen to, in particular, the Russian S-300/400/500 systems, ignore the fact that legacy platforms are even more vulnerable to them, and in fact will have to rely on the F-35 finding and sanitising these systems on the first day off to the war.
 

John Newman

The Bunker Group
Two, people who tout the vulnerability of 5th gen to, in particular, the Russian S-300/400/500 systems, ignore the fact that legacy platforms are even more vulnerable to them, and in fact will have to rely on the F-35 finding and sanitising these systems on the first day off to the war.
Agree.

Over the last number of years, I continue to shake my head when I read some of the comments in the Canadian media regarding the F-35 (sorry not trying to give our Canuck friends on DT a kicking), when there is an article, usually a negative article, regarding the 'options' for the replacement of the RCAF's Classic Hornets.

Apart from the usual 'APA' type anti-F-35 comments and the cost arguments, which really is not an argument anymore, the argument put up by 'many' people is:

"Canada does not need a 'first day' strike or fighter capability", what the???

That is just madness, are those people expecting that Canada will just sit there and 'wait' till the coast is clear before committing to the fight? That thinking is just complete madness, Canada and other nations may have no choice but to be there on the 'first day'.

Regardless of first day or not, I'd much prefer our aircrews to be strapped into a 'system' that is going to give them the very very best chance of achieving the objective and most importantly too, 'surviving'!!!

Just glad that our politicians (and on both sides too), agree that the F-35 is the 'right and proper' aircraft to send RAAF crews into battle potentially some time into the future.

Wonder how many Canuck pilots would be looking seriously at a transfer to the RAAF??
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
"Some" people are starting to get it while others still don't, i.e. the shoot down of a single F-117 over Serbia in the 90s is still given as evidence that LO or "stealth" doesn't work. The faulty thinking with that example being two fold, one the loss was due to operational reasons that permitted the Serbs to set up an ambush in a well used flight path. Two, people who tout the vulnerability of 5th gen to, in particular, the Russian S-300/400/500 systems, ignore the fact that legacy platforms are even more vulnerable to them, and in fact will have to rely on the F-35 finding and sanitising these systems on the first day off to the war.
I remember reading some comments about how B2's and F-22's were hopeless as the rapier2's at farnborough were tracking them as they landed at the airshow

some people have no idea....
 
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