War Against ISIS

T

Twain

Active Member
ngatimozart said:
Seems Syria is not the only country that the Turks have a habit of overflying. In 2014 they have committed 2244 violations of Greek airspace in the Aegean Sea around islands close to the Turkish coast. The previous year the violations were 636 having significantly jumped because of the Greek economic crisis and the funding shortage to the Greek Air Force resulting in it's response not being as vigorous as in previous times. Maybe the Greeks need to follow an example out of the Turkish playbook. Actually maybe it's about time that NATO reevaluated Turkish membership of the treaty because they are becoming a liability.
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I don't see Turkey getting kicked out of Nato unless they do something really stupid. But on that subject, without NATO, Turkey would really be in a bad situation. Erdogan wants Turkey to be considered a middle east power on par with Saudi Arabia and Iran but the arabs on the whole don't even consider Turkey to be part of the middle east power structure. They consider them more of a neighbor that occasionally has a role to play. With Russia to the east, they have minor influence in central asia but can't influence things too much when Russia decides to flex it's muscles in response.

without NATO backing, they largely (not entirely) become irrelevant and would have a limited ability to influence things much beyond hteir borders. Then again, maybe the threat of NATO expulsion might get Erdogan to behave for a while.
 
S

stojo

Member
Feanor said:
Also, with all the excitement over the downed jet, my usual sources are not writing about the situation on the ground. Except for the vague Russian claim that they've shut down the entire border with Turkey, in Latakia province, I have nothing. Does anyone have anything on it?
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Nothing on shutting down the border, but here is a rather informative overview of the situation on the front lately. Its rather pro government source, albeit a balanced one I've been following for some time.

http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/19544/
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
LogisticsGuy said:
Does anyone have any info or corroborating evidence to this? There were no relevant links in the article.
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can we please avoid injecting conspiracy theories into this thread

I don't have a lot of time for these kinds of things in the first place - especially as a lot of whats happened can be explained logically by people in here who have some relevant experience.

forays into magic technology as a contributor to these events are best suited elsewhere

one of my pet hates is the term "stealth" used incorrectly and not even remotely within the technical construct of whats normal defensive measures
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Twain said:
I don't see Turkey getting kicked out of Nato unless they do something really stupid. But on that subject, without NATO, Turkey would really be in a bad situation. Erdogan wants Turkey to be considered a middle east power on par with Saudi Arabia and Iran but the arabs on the whole don't even consider Turkey to be part of the middle east power structure. They consider them more of a neighbor that occasionally has a role to play. With Russia to the east, they have minor influence in central asia but can't influence things too much when Russia decides to flex it's muscles in response.

without NATO backing, they largely (not entirely) become irrelevant and would have a limited ability to influence things much beyond hteir borders. Then again, maybe the threat of NATO expulsion might get Erdogan to behave for a while.
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I don't think the Arabs have fond memories of the Ottoman Empire from which Turkey emerged from. The West needed to contain the Soviet threat during the Cold War so they conveniently ignored Turkey's Ottoman past as well as the Islamic rot coming out of Saudi Arabia the infests the ME. What goes around comes back to bite!
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
LogisticsGuy said:
Does anyone have any info or corroborating evidence to this? There were no relevant links in the article.
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They've found the One Ring. When the pilot wears it, the aircraft is invisible. :D

On a serious note, this is total bullshit. But it's based on a small piece of reality. A US pilot in an interview talked about a very powerful radar system, that was locking on to US aircraft in Syrian airspace, conjecturing this was the S-400 radar. In addition, the Krasuha-4 EW system is there. In other words, lots of shiny new toys, some only a couple of years old. So while you're not going to see magic "stealth" technology, there are a lot of interesting assets deployed.
 
Z

ZeonChar

New Member
There are reports that Turkey is amassing on the Syrian border, some 100 tanks and several Artillery brigades. Turkey has also claimed they've suspended all flights over Syria due to the Su-24 incident. This is all on the heels of continued Russian airstrikes on supply routes to all groups hostile to Assad. YPG seems to be continuously coordinating with the Russian Airforce, making good gains around North Aleppo and further east in ISIS controlled areas.
 
B

barney41

Member
Feanor said:
They've found the One Ring. When the pilot wears it, the aircraft is invisible. :D

On a serious note, this is total bullshit. But it's based on a small piece of reality. A US pilot in an interview talked about a very powerful radar system, that was locking on to US aircraft in Syrian airspace, conjecturing this was the S-400 radar. In addition, the Krasuha-4 EW system is there. In other words, lots of shiny new toys, some only a couple of years old. So while you're not going to see magic "stealth" technology, there are a lot of interesting assets deployed.
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Must be the same magic gizmo that paralyzed that USN DDG's AEGIS system a while back, the bridge crew were so unnerved they resigned en masse. :lol2
 
G

GermanHerman

Active Member
ZeonChar said:
There are reports that Turkey is amassing on the Syrian border, some 100 tanks and several Artillery brigades. Turkey has also claimed they've suspended all flights over Syria due to the Su-24 incident. This is all on the heels of continued Russian airstrikes on supply routes to all groups hostile to Assad. YPG seems to be continuously coordinating with the Russian Airforce, making good gains around North Aleppo and further east in ISIS controlled areas.
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If this turns out to be true and in preperation for a military intervention in northern syria / iraq I wonder what russias reaction would be.

Considering political conundrum Turkey is in this might very well be a power-move that gets serious considerations in the turkish goverment.

The looming independence of the kurdish regions in northern syria / iraq in the verge of their military success is a nightmare for Turkey and they did activly fight against the kurds in order to weaken them. In addition it must hurt them to see their clandestine efforts around the border turn to ashes, the downed russian bomber is just evidence of how much they care. All this in light of their ambitions to establish themselfs as the third regional power on par with Saudi Arabia and Iran makes this option look not totaly unrealistic since I can't imagine russia to engage Turkey on a military level in respons.

I don't think there will be turkish ground forces engaging but Erdogan is becoming more and more of a dictator.
 
gazzzwp

gazzzwp

Member
Feanor said:
Well the IFF would be a big way to distinguish between Russian and non-Russian. But keeping in mind that we're dealing with US, Syrian, Russian, French, Germany, Turkish, and god knows who else (I'm having a hard time keeping track of who's still in the anti-ISIS coalition and who's pulled their stuff out) you raise a good point. Possibly someone more knowledgeable could answer this.

Also, with all the excitement over the downed jet, my usual sources are not writing about the situation on the ground. Except for the vague Russian claim that they've shut down the entire border with Turkey, in Latakia province, I have nothing. Does anyone have anything on it?
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According to RT neither the US or Turkey are flying sorties because of the Russian air defenses. It would be interesting to verify this and also consider the implications if it is true.

Surely the US are not going home now that a few missile batteries have been placed in the field?

https://www.rt.com/news/323815-syria-s-400-us-airstrikes/
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
RobWilliams said:
Germany is to supply a number of Tornados for ISR tasks and 'tanker aircraft' to support Coalition efforts against IS in response to French requests for support.

Germany backs France with more military support | IHS Jane's 360
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I am assuming NATO members exerted some pressure on junior behind closed doors to offer something in place of our CF-18s being withdrawn. Apparently CP-140 Auroras (P-3 Orion) for ISR and a AAR jet will be assigned.

Canada’s move to stay in the Iraq/Syria air campaign – providing needed refuelling and ISR capability to the coalition | Ottawa Citizen
 
Z

ZeonChar

New Member
GermanHerman said:
If this turns out to be true and in preperation for a military intervention in northern syria / iraq I wonder what russias reaction would be.

Considering political conundrum Turkey is in this might very well be a power-move that gets serious considerations in the turkish goverment.

The looming independence of the kurdish regions in northern syria / iraq in the verge of their military success is a nightmare for Turkey and they did activly fight against the kurds in order to weaken them. In addition it must hurt them to see their clandestine efforts around the border turn to ashes, the downed russian bomber is just evidence of how much they care. All this in light of their ambitions to establish themselfs as the third regional power on par with Saudi Arabia and Iran makes this option look not totaly unrealistic since I can't imagine russia to engage Turkey on a military level in respons.

I don't think there will be turkish ground forces engaging but Erdogan is becoming more and more of a dictator.
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Indeed, he seems to be getting anxious. I'll provide some links of what seems to be going next post!
 
Z

ZeonChar

New Member
I would've had a better source for this information, but the Turkish Journalist I followed apparently had his Twitter account and his blog deleted after reporting the Turkish Border build up.

Anyways:
Turkey is continuing to send equipment to the border(Any Twitter links, I do link are from Official Turkish Journalists, not 3rd party material).
Turkey deploys military reinforcements to Syria border - Daily Sabah
https://twitter.com/metesohtaoglu/status/670566758814715904

Mass protests going on in Turkey.
Top Kurdish lawyer shot dead in southeast Turkey | Reuters

Russia has awarded the Syrian soldiers who helped in the retrieving the pilots.
Ðаграда Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð±Ð¾ÐµÐ²Ñ‹Ñ… товарищей - ÐовоÑти от News Front
Wall
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update.

Ahrar-ash-Sham fighters used artillery to shell the Hmeimeem airbase and claimed to have caused casualties. However Russian sources deny the base was shelled, and locals say the shells fell on a residential neighborhood.

Боевики из группировки «Ðхрар Ðш-Шам» нанеÑли артиллерийÑкий удар по роÑÑийÑкой авиабазе в Сирии | Военный информатор

Turkey begins large scale coast guard exercises.

Силы береговой охраны Турции начали маÑштабные военные ÑƒÑ‡ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð² акватории Мраморного Ð¼Ð¾Ñ€Ñ | Военный информатор

President of Azerbaijan, Aliev, says he's willing to help Turkey and Russia repair their relations.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ïðåçèäåíò Àçåðáàéäæàíà çàÿâèë î ãîòîâíîñòè ïîìî÷ü Ðîññèè è Òóðöèè íàëàäèòü îòíîøåíèÿ

Russia expresses support of French plans to begin a ground operation in Syria.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: ÌÈÄ ÐÔ ïîääåðæàë èäåþ Ôðàíöèè î ïðîâåäåíèè íàçåìíîé îïåðàöèè â Ñèðèè

Iraqi AMX-10Ps are also going back into service.

Вот иракцы и AMX-10P отремонтировали.. - Юрий ЛÑмин

Putin brings in sanctions against Turkey making it illegal for Russian companies to hire Turkish citizens. Also importation of certain Turkish goods is banned.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ïóòèí ââåë ñàíêöèè ïðîòèâ Òóðöèè

New videos from Hmeimeem blur out the faces of Russian military personnel.

Примета времени - Берлога Бронемедведа

There are reports that the US is pressuring Turkey to close the border to ISIS.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: ÑØÀ äàâÿò íà Òóðöèþ èç-çà îòêðûòîé äëÿ áîåâèêîâ ÈÃ ãðàíèöû

Among all the sanctions against Turkey, Russia and Saudi Arabia have reached a set of economic agreements, about food, LNG, and direct air travel.This is likely intennal.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ðîññèÿ äîãîâîðèëàñü î òåñíîì ýêîíîìè÷åñêîì ñîòðóäíè÷åñòâå ñ Ñàóäîâñêîé Àðàâèåé

Starting Jan 1st, Russia is cancelling the visa-free regime with Turkey.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: ÌÈÄ ÐÔ ñîîáùèë äàòó îòìåíû áåçâèçîâîãî ðåæèìà ñ Òóðöèåé

Turkey is deploying radars and EW to deal with Russian aircraft.

ОÑлепление - Военный Блог

Photos of the Syrian soldiers rewarded by Russia for the rescue operation.

Ðаграда Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð±Ð¾ÐµÐ²Ñ‹Ñ… товарищей - Colonel Cassad
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
LogisticsGuy said:
Don't shoot the messenger. Just reporting.
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except it's normal comsec to mask your capability as much as possible

the comments made by the prev author you posted (who's a new world order conspiracist) had almost zero merit around "stealth tech" etc.....

too much hype doesn't add weight or credibility to what are basic operational constructs of not advertising your capability as much as possible

ie SOP
 
ngatimozart

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
There is material on the net claiming that Bilal Erdogan, son of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has a lucrative business trading oil for Daesh. Apparently this is part of a larger family enterprise with his sister Sümeyye supposedly running a hospital inside the Turkish border that specialises in treat in Daesh wounded and returning them to active service. How accurate this material is would be debatable, however there are multiple sources.

The theme through these articles is Erdogans corruption, for want of a better term, and his twin hates of the Kurds and Assad. His greatest fear appears to be the formation of a Kurdish state along his borders. If the Syrians and Russians can seal off the Turkish border, then it is quite possible that they could inflict a significant dent in Daesh's oil income and other logistics coming across the border. One would think that this would also put a significant dent in the Erdogan family income and this raises the question of how Erdogan will react if the border area is sealed off and the Turkman rebels crushed. If he storms across the border against the Syrians and the Russians he will be committing an act of aggression, hence no NATO support so he won't be able to hide behind their skirts. Well that's the theory.

This comes back to how accurate is the material. Erdogan certainly is muzzling the media and opposition in Turkey. He does have the appearances of becoming dictorial. He certainly has dragged his heels sealing the border which is still very porous and he only attacks Daesh when he really has, to using his strength to attack the Kurds, who incidentaly are one of the most effective ground forces against Daesh. This material definitely has to be treated with caution but I think that it does serve a purpose of raising questions about Erdogans designs and goals.

Turkey Violated Greek Airspace 2,244 Times in 2014; Erdogan’s Son, ISIS Oil Smuggler | Covert Geopolitics

Recep Tayyip Erdogan is sabotaging the West's battle to crush ISIS | Daily Mail Online

Meet The Man Who Funds ISIS: Bilal Erdogan, The Son Of Turkey's President | Zero Hedge
 
Z

ZeonChar

New Member
ngatimozart said:
There is material on the net claiming that Bilal Erdogan, son of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has a lucrative business trading oil for Daesh. Apparently this is part of a larger family enterprise with his sister Sümeyye supposedly running a hospital inside the Turkish border that specialises in treat in Daesh wounded and returning them to active service. How accurate this material is would be debatable, however there are multiple sources.

The theme through these articles is Erdogans corruption, for want of a better term, and his twin hates of the Kurds and Assad. His greatest fear appears to be the formation of a Kurdish state along his borders. If the Syrians and Russians can seal off the Turkish border, then it is quite possible that they could inflict a significant dent in Daesh's oil income and other logistics coming across the border. One would think that this would also put a significant dent in the Erdogan family income and this raises the question of how Erdogan will react if the border area is sealed off and the Turkman rebels crushed. If he storms across the border against the Syrians and the Russians he will be committing an act of aggression, hence no NATO support so he won't be able to hide behind their skirts. Well that's the theory.

This comes back to how accurate is the material. Erdogan certainly is muzzling the media and opposition in Turkey. He does have the appearances of becoming dictorial. He certainly has dragged his heels sealing the border which is still very porous and he only attacks Daesh when he really has, to using his strength to attack the Kurds, who incidentaly are one of the most effective ground forces against Daesh. This material definitely has to be treated with caution but I think that it does serve a purpose of raising questions about Erdogans designs and goals.

Turkey Violated Greek Airspace 2,244 Times in 2014; Erdogan’s Son, ISIS Oil Smuggler | Covert Geopolitics

Recep Tayyip Erdogan is sabotaging the West's battle to crush ISIS | Daily Mail Online

Meet The Man Who Funds ISIS: Bilal Erdogan, The Son Of Turkey's President | Zero Hedge
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Good information, looks like Daddy and Sonny have themselves a good business. I doubt they'd want the border closed ever.
 
Z

ZeonChar

New Member
Sort of comical footage here, An Al Nusra tank going wild bill, literally running like a bull toward Syrian forces, excellent footage. This literally reminds me of Tom and Jerry.

"at 02:14 the cannon of the tank gets hit by a building. you can see the turret rotate as result of that
at 02:50 the machinegun of the tank hits the tank itself. at least you can see they are shooting live ammuntion"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsCLLpWnPXc
 
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