Ukranian Crisis

Feanor · Feb 27, 2015

Waylander said:
And do not to forget the additional support by modern systems from over the border should the UA ever come close to the russian border again.

Never mind the border, it's pretty clear that Russian regulars are embedded with the rebels, in areas like ELINT, EW and air-defense. Brand new and extremely modern systems in all of these areas have been sighted in rebel territory. It's highly unlikely that they have rebel operators. And of course the taking of Uglegorsk, and closing of the Debal'tsevo pocket seems to have been completed by Russian regulars.

It looks like they do a bait and switch type operation where the Russian Army regulars fought the battle, and the rebels showed up for the mop-up and took plenty of videos and photos. While the regulars were there, the town of Uglegorsk was closed to Russian journalists.

Waylander · Feb 27, 2015

I agree that the rebels heavy and specialist assets as well as their logistics are heavily staffed by russian regulars.

But Russia has several additional and modern artillery assets right on it's side of the border which will give additional support to rebel operations when in range.

Feanor · Feb 28, 2015

Waylander said:
I agree that the rebels heavy and specialist assets as well as their logistics are heavily staffed by russian regulars.

But Russia has several additional and modern artillery assets right on it's side of the border which will give additional support to rebel operations when in range.

If in range. At this point I don't think Ukraine will be able to push that far again.

Waylander · Feb 28, 2015

I don't think either but it puts an additional lid on the idea on top from the obvious strength of the rebel/russian forces directly active on Ukrainian soil.

Feanor · Feb 28, 2015

Waylander said:
I don't think either but it puts an additional lid on the idea on top from the obvious strength of the rebel/russian forces directly active on Ukrainian soil.

It puts a lid on western plans for a military resolution, but the Ukrainian government doesn't necessarily need a victory, because after "winning" they would get stuck with the bill for rebuilding, not to mention the population would no longer have the war hysteria to distract them from the lack of heating in public schools, lack of medicines in hospitals, etc. I think the Ukrainian government wants to freeze this conflict, leave the rebels permanently out of Ukraine (instead of re-integrating them as an autonomous entity, which is what Russia is pushing for), and have a frontier with Novorossiya, where occasional combat still breaks out, letting them milk the "war with Russia" for as long as possible.

I think this is one of the biggest reasons why Minsk one didn't hold. Besides the obvious problems of the airport, and the Debal'tsevo pocket, it essentially led to the government making plans for giant fortification lines on the eastern frontier, and a total blockade of the rebel regions, with occasional shellings. The rebels couldn't let it end this way, and Russia couldn't either.

PO2GRV · Mar 3, 2015

US to Deploy Six National Guard Companies to Ukraine This Week / Sputnik International
US to send 6 Nat'l Guard companies to train 6 Ukrainian companies "this week"

Nationalist Aidar Unit Reorganized As Assault Battalion of Ukraine's Army / Sputnik International
Battalion Aidar to be restructured as the 24th Separate Assault within the UA

@Feanor: Is this news site to be trusted? As I understand it it used to be RIA Novosti? It has an anti-western (or perhaps pro-Russian is more accurate) bias but trusted regarding its content

Commentary/Questions: Is Battalion Azov going to undergo a similar restructuring and enfranchisement?

Musashi_kenshin · Mar 3, 2015

PO2GRV said:
US to send 6 Nat'l Guard companies to train 6 Ukrainian companies "this week"

Why on earth would you believe the US would send the National Guard to Ukraine? The mere suggestion is preposterous.

PO2GRV · Mar 3, 2015

Musashi_kenshin said:
Why on earth would you believe the US would send the National Guard to Ukraine? The mere suggestion is preposterous.

Preposterous is such a strong word.
Californiaâ€“Ukraine National Guard Partnership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Feanor · Mar 3, 2015

Musashi_kenshin said:
Why on earth would you believe the US would send the National Guard to Ukraine? The mere suggestion is preposterous.

Uuuh... I'm sorry but do you know what you're talking about? The US regularly uses reservist formations for international training missions. Partnerships of America, BALTOPS, etc.

And as far as I know, the Army Reserve doesn't have any infantry formations. The only infantry reserves the US Army has, are the National Guard.

Feanor · Mar 3, 2015

PO2GRV said:
@Feanor: Is this news site to be trusted? As I understand it it used to be RIA Novosti? It has an anti-western (or perhaps pro-Russian is more accurate) bias but trusted regarding its content

Well, I'm not sure. RIA Novosti is still around. They haven't gone anywhere. I'll investigate when I have some time. Chances are, if it sounds really biased, it probably is.

Ð Ð˜Ð ÐÐ¾Ð²Ð¾ÑÑ‚Ð¸

Commentary/Questions: Is Battalion Azov going to undergo a similar restructuring and enfranchisement?

Is it restructuring or renaming?

Btw Btln Azov is now a Special MVD Regiment Azov.

Todjaeger · Mar 4, 2015

Feanor said:
Uuuh... I'm sorry but do you know what you're talking about? The US regularly uses reservist formations for international training missions. Partnerships of America, BALTOPS, etc.

And as far as I know, the Army Reserve doesn't have any infantry formations. The only infantry reserves the US Army has, are the National Guard.

I am unaware of any previous deployment of US National Guard (who are also automatically Army Reserve...) units to a foreign country with an active combat zone/insurgency, aside from a planned combat tour.

In checking further, it seems that the source site needs a new editor. If one reads the story, the US is sending personnel, but not national guardsmen. Instead, the US will be using ~a company of troops to train around four companies of Ukrainian National Guards.

If one comes across a story or story title that looks suspect, it often is. Especially when doing a search does not result in any of the top links going to mainstream news sources where there should be some sort of information.

Feanor · Mar 4, 2015

Todjaeger said:
I am unaware of any previous deployment of US National Guard (who are also automatically Army Reserve...) units to a foreign country with an active combat zone/insurgency, aside from a planned combat tour.

In checking further, it seems that the source site needs a new editor. If one reads the story, the US is sending personnel, but not national guardsmen. Instead, the US will be using ~a company of troops to train around four companies of Ukrainian National Guards.

If one comes across a story or story title that looks suspect, it often is. Especially when doing a search does not result in any of the top links going to mainstream news sources where there should be some sort of information.

I agree that there's no certainty that the US is sending anything at all, but there is nothing strange that if something were to be sent, for it to be the National Guard. Musashi seemed to think that the idea that the National Guard specifically being sent was preposterous.

Musashi_kenshin · Mar 4, 2015

Feanor said:
Uuuh... I'm sorry but do you know what you're talking about? The US regularly uses reservist formations for international training missions. Partnerships of America, BALTOPS, etc

I was probably too strong with my last comment - you're right they can deploy outside the US. Tod has made the point much better than I did!

Also you have to remember that the US has plenty of full-time personnel to spare given the draw-down from Iraq and Afghanistan, so I don't see why anyone from the National Guard would have to go.

Nick underscore · Mar 4, 2015

Musashi_kenshin said:
..Also you have to remember that the US has plenty of full-time personnel to spare given the draw-down from Iraq and Afghanistan, so I don't see why anyone from the National Guard would have to go.

Certain specialist roles, such as medical, intelligence and logistical would form part of the core in this training effort. Some will be from USNG units. I beleive the US Army will rotate the 300 troops each time, with May, July, August and October being the relief dates for each group.

To note; U.S. National Guard troops deployed to W. Africa just last year to asisst with again, Medical and Logistical requirements in fighting Ebola. So it does happen.

gazzzwp · Mar 4, 2015

Musashi_kenshin said:
I was probably too strong with my last comment - you're right they can deploy outside the US. Tod has made the point much better than I did!

Also you have to remember that the US has plenty of full-time personnel to spare given the draw-down from Iraq and Afghanistan, so I don't see why anyone from the National Guard would have to go.

There is this:

US Soldiers Readying for Ukraine Deployment

Slowly slowly the US will get it's people in there to bolster the countries security.

The East is definitely going to be a burden to whoever is occupying it. Justice sometimes takes ironic forms.

BlueRose · Mar 4, 2015

gazzzwp said:
There is this:

US Soldiers Readying for Ukraine Deployment

Slowly slowly the US will get it's people in there to bolster the countries security.

The East is definitely going to be a burden to whoever is occupying it. Justice sometimes takes ironic forms.

They're not gonna be a fighting force though, so they won't serve much of a purpose besides tactics.

Feanor · Mar 4, 2015

Nick underscore · Mar 7, 2015

A topic on the conflict, of which I'm sure the truer numbers, will become clearer over time.
Struggle to pierce wall of silence on casualties

Although this source doesn't reveal Ukrainian numbers, the lowest estimated figures for both sides, are quite alarming.

Feanor · Mar 7, 2015

Nick underscore said:
A topic on the conflict, of which I'm sure the truer numbers, will become clearer over time.
Struggle to pierce wall of silence on casualties

Although this source doesn't reveal Ukrainian numbers, the lowest estimated figures for both sides, are quite alarming.

Junk article, in my opinion. It spends a long time saying very little, and the 5000 casualty estimate is intended to shock the reader. It's nowhere near realistic. Look at how the low the UN figures are for the conflict as a whole. And their figures include civilian deaths, and both sidess military dead. This article attempts to suggest that only Russian soldiers (not Russian volunteers, not regular rebels, not Ukrainian military, not civilians) are 5000 dead? Come on. Neither the intensity nor the scale of the conflict would allow for that.

Nick underscore · Mar 7, 2015

Feanor said:
Junk article, in my opinion. It spends a long time saying very little, and the 5000 casualty estimate is intended to shock the reader. It's nowhere near realistic. Look at how the low the UN figures are for the conflict as a whole. And their figures include civilian deaths, and both sidess military dead. This article attempts to suggest that only Russian soldiers (not Russian volunteers, not regular rebels, not Ukrainian military, not civilians) are 5000 dead? Come on. Neither the intensity nor the scale of the conflict would allow for that.

Feanor, I did state I was alarmed and the truer number - whether they eventually be higher or lower - wil come out in time...

The UN civilian casualties vs. various-sourced, unsubstantiated military loses - I agree, don't stack up. Throughout this conflict, it has been extremely difficult to believe anything.. from both sides.

Understand you state its your opinion regarding the article, so going further, what is realistic in your view? Just curious

Ukranian Crisis

Super Moderator

Defense Professional

Super Moderator

Defense Professional

Super Moderator

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Super Moderator

Super Moderator

Potstirrer

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

New Member

Super Moderator

Member

Super Moderator

Member