Ukranian Crisis

2007yellow430 said:

Thanks for the info Feanor:

I have a question though: You've indicated you are getting your info from blogs, etc. My question is are some of these blogs from the Ukrainian side? If not, the potential fore substantial bias arises. Just wondering how accurate they are or are not.

Click to expand...

I try my best to avoid blogs that take a side. A lot of this comes from info that's posted by people whom I've been reading since long before this mess began. Sadly there are few Ukrainian sources that are reliable. The media space in Ukraine seems to have gone off the deep end, making ridiculous, untenable, and straight up insane claims. Stories like the destruction of a training camp killing 1000 terrorists, or stories like a Russian ICBM in rebel hands, are all too common.

Actually on this subject, I just found a blog called zloy odessit, which is definitely pro-Ukrainian. It did publish some very interesting photos. I'm going to stick to it, and see if it can maintain standards. jerry-24.it is also Ukrainian, he's a resident of Kramatorsk. He's not pro-Ukrainian, but not pro-rebel either. He seems to lack any sort of political position, and simply posts updates on what he sees and hears around town.

If you have good pro-Ukrainian sources, I encourage you to post them.

Mini-update. Just found this. The video is allegedly from border crossing point dolzhanskiy. The post was in theory taken by government troops, but if this video is correct, the rebels are still there, still fighting. They talk about detonating an IED.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEahqYCZtws#t=55

Feanor said:

I try my best to avoid blogs that take a side. A lot of this comes from info that's posted by people whom I've been reading since long before this mess began. Sadly there are few Ukrainian sources that are reliable. The media space in Ukraine seems to have gone off the deep end, making ridiculous, untenable, and straight up insane claims. Stories like the destruction of a training camp killing 1000 terrorists, or stories like a Russian ICBM in rebel hands, are all too common.

Actually on this subject, I just found a blog called zloy odessit, which is definitely pro-Ukrainian. It did publish some very interesting photos. I'm going to stick to it, and see if it can maintain standards. jerry-24.it is also Ukrainian, he's a resident of Kramatorsk. He's not pro-Ukrainian, but not pro-rebel either. He seems to lack any sort of political position, and simply posts updates on what he sees and hears around town.

If you have good pro-Ukrainian sources, I encourage you to post them.

Click to expand...

Feano:
r I don't have any sources other than our news media. I was just trying to get a handle on this, given the huge disparity in the "facts" being reported by our press, etc. Thanks for your effort.

2007yellow430 said:

Feano:
r I don't have any sources other than our news media. I was just trying to get a handle on this, given the huge disparity in the "facts" being reported by our press, etc. Thanks for your effort.

Click to expand...

No problem. Mainstream media usually spends 10% of their time on facts, 90% on "blablabla". I think it was CNN recently that thought Slavyansk was in Crimea... They often don't do basic fact checking. Especially on issues that require actual knowledge.

If you're interested in specifics, or you have a question on a particular story or claim being made, feel free to ask. Keep in mind that a lot of the time a news article or program will create the impression that things are certain way, without backing it with facts, or even stating it outright.

Update.

The rebels have seized Snezhnoe, and are setting up a new defense line there.

Блог ÐлекÑандра Шакуна - 6.08 Снежное

A bus in Lugansk was hit by an artillery shell killing two, wounding 4.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Â Ëóãàíñêå, çàíÿòîì ñåïàðàòèñòàìè, ðàññòðåëÿëè ìàðøðóòêó. Åñòü æåðòâû

Ukrainian soldiers in Kramatorsk prevented nationalists from knocking down a Lenin statue.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Óêðàèíñêèì âîåííûì â Êðàìàòîðñêå ïðèøëîñü ñïàñàòü îò íàöèîíàëèñòîâ ïàìÿòíèê Ëåíèíó

3 Ukrainian government checkpoints were hit by mortar fire.

Ополченцы ночью обÑтрелÑли из минометов блокпоÑÑ‚Ñ‹ и пропуÑкной пункт на границе Ñ Ð Ð¾ÑÑией

There's an unconfirmed report that btln Azov came under rebel howitzer artillery fire. Note there is no solid info that the rebels have artillery.

ivanoctober:

A rebel counter-attack at Schastye killed the commander of a Ukrainian territorial defense unit.

Øòóðì êîìåíäàòóðû ã. Ñ÷àñòüå

Yet another map. Accuracy is questionable.

ivanoctober:

Captured rebel munitions in Slavyansk. Possibly from Russia.

zloy_odessit:

Improvised armored trucks are being manufactured for the Ukrainian army.

Ðа Житомирщине Ð´Ð»Ñ ÑƒÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ñких деÑантников переделали Уралы в бронемашины

A T-34-76, T-34-85, and a T-54 were removed from a museum by the rebels.

Ополченцы вывезли из Ð¼ÑƒÐ·ÐµÑ Ð’ÐµÐ»Ð¸ÐºÐ¾Ð¹ ОтечеÑтвенной в Донецке три танка

Photos of Ukrainian troops.

Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата - Пока Губарев...

President Poroshenko promises not to use aircraft or artillery in clearing Donetsk.

Президент Украины пообещал не применÑÑ‚ÑŒ в Донецке авиациѰртиллерию

The Ukrainian Academy of Sciences presents a new recon UAV.

Украина предÑтавила новый малый разведывательный БПЛР“Журавльâ€

Russian troop movements near the border continue.

Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата - Ðочное нагнетунÑтво...

Ukrainian gas debts have gone up to 5.3 bln dollars, they have not paid for gas for June.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: "Ãàçïðîì": äîëã Óêðàèíû çà ãàç âûðîñ äî 5,3 ìëðä äîëëàðîâ

Thanks Feanor.Apparently "MANY" Russians are deserting Russia for Ukraina according to RFERL .The report does not give an estimate of what constitutes "many" and quoting just six people is supposed to be enough evidence that "many" Russians are indeed leaving for Ukraine.
Disenchanted With Home, Many Russians Seek New Life In Ukraine

Yet another piece of propaganda from RFERL showing completely deserted beaches in Crimea trying to convince the viewer that there is no tourism whats so ever in Crimea..The tone of this report reminded me of the time when US media seemed to be cheering on terrorists to blow the Sochi games up.
Tourist Season A Washout In Annexed Crimea

Huh?

nkvd said:

Thanks Feanor.Apparently "MANY" Russians are deserting Russia for Ukraina according to RFERL .The report does not give an estimate of what constitutes "many" and quoting just six people is supposed to be enough evidence that "many" Russians are indeed leaving for Ukraine.
Disenchanted With Home, Many Russians Seek New Life In Ukraine

Yet another piece of propaganda from RFERL showing completely deserted beaches in Crimea trying to convince the viewer that there is no tourism whats so ever in Crimea..The tone of this report reminded me of the time when US media seemed to be cheering on terrorists to blow the Sochi games up.
Tourist Season A Washout In Annexed Crimea

Click to expand...

What are you suggesting, that the United States is a state sponsor of Terrorism? Hate to break the news to you, but the Caucausus have been restive seen before our war of independence. What I saw from Sochi was US military assets close by and then, also, why would we want to attack an Olympic event, especially since the US typically does very well? Can you provide us with the article or source that shows the US was egging on terrorist groups? This is up there with 'sightings of US troops' in the Ukraine, baseless, and inflammatory.

nkvd said:

Thanks Feanor.Apparently "MANY" Russians are deserting Russia for Ukraina according to RFERL .The report does not give an estimate of what constitutes "many" and quoting just six people is supposed to be enough evidence that "many" Russians are indeed leaving for Ukraine.
Disenchanted With Home, Many Russians Seek New Life In Ukraine

Yet another piece of propaganda from RFERL showing completely deserted beaches in Crimea trying to convince the viewer that there is no tourism whats so ever in Crimea..The tone of this report reminded me of the time when US media seemed to be cheering on terrorists to blow the Sochi games up.
Tourist Season A Washout In Annexed Crimea

Click to expand...

The first claim seems a little silly, but the second one isn't. Crimea has had a much weaker tourist season then last year, primarily due to transportation issues. There was a large number of subsidized options for travel, but they were essentially all used up, and on the open market tickets to Crimea are quite expensive.

I don't think US media was cheering for terrorists to attack the Sochi games. There was a certain amount of talking in the "willthey/won't they" style. There were a lot of photos and videos of Russian special law enforcement patrolling around with automatic weapons. But none of it really amounted to what you claim.

Updates.

Fighting around the Lugansk airport is intensifying, with reports of heavy weapons (tanks and MLRS) used by the rebels, and air support by Ukrainian government.

zloy-odessit.livejournal.com/572997.html
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Â Ëóãàíñêîé îáëàñòè, ãäå âî âðåìÿ îáñòðåëà áëîêïîñòà ðàíèëè æóðíàëèñòà, èäåò áîé â ðàéîíå àýðîïîðòà

Captured rebel munitions in Slavyansk. Unlike the small numbers of trophey small arms displayed earlier, this looks like a significant quantity of heavy munitions that the rebels left behind. This clashes with the rebels claims that they evacuated out of Slavyansk in an orderly and methodical manner.

ЧаÑтный руÑÑкий журнал - Оружие
ЧаÑтный руÑÑкий журнал - СвÑзь

A rebel UAV captured in Slavyansk. It's a bid odd looking in my opinion.

ЧаÑтный руÑÑкий журнал - БеÑпилотник

Ukrainian troops in and around Slavyansk.

Берлога Бронемедведа - Украина, СлавÑнÑк: вокруг и внутри

Motorola and his fighters, and Poroshenko with soldiers.

Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата - Моторола и менее извеÑтные дейÑтвующие лица ÐТО...

A T-64BM Bulat in the conflict zone.

Берлога Бронемедведа - Украина: "Булат" ВСУ

An unofficial Right Sector formation, under Yaroshes personal command, conducted a small raid near Karlovka.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - ÐВФ, бойцы "Правого Сектора"
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Jb52iShXk"]Правий Сектор піÑÐ»Ñ Ð±Ð¾ÑŽ під Карлівкою 06.07.2014 - YouTube[/nomedia]

Ukrainian airmobile units enter Kramatorsk.

УкраинÑкие Ñиловики ввели Ð¿Ð¾Ð´Ñ€Ð°Ð·Ð´ÐµÐ»ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð°Ñромобильных войÑк в КраматорÑк

According to some sources they passed through the city, and headed towards Donetsk.

zloy_odessit:

Refugees from the east gathered in Kiev, by the Ministry of Social Development, to protests lack of efforts by the Ukrainian government to help the refugees. The Deputy-Minister tries to get them to leave, and then calls them some bad words.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - ЗамминиÑтра потолкалÑÑ Ñ Ð±ÐµÐ¶ÐµÐ½Ñ†Ð°Ð¼Ð¸ из зоны боевых дейÑтвий, а потом обозвал их барыгами

Ukrainian GDP is down 11% compared to last year.

зри в корень - ВВП Украины в гривнах ÑократилÑÑ Ð½Ð° 11 % по Ñравнению Ñ Ð¼Ð°ÐµÐ¼ предыдущего года

Great reporting as always Feanor!

My question is how are they able to differentiate between the Rebels and Government troops during combat, most of the videos I've seen lack any sort of identification other than what party is identified by the author. With all the plethora of camouflage in circulation, I'd imagine there are more friendly fire incidents than the ones that are reported.

Vegan-Zombie said:

Great reporting as always Feanor!

My question is how are they able to differentiate between the Rebels and Government troops during combat, most of the videos I've seen lack any sort of identification other than what party is identified by the author. With all the plethora of camouflage in circulation, I'd imagine there are more friendly fire incidents than the ones that are reported.

Click to expand...

I suspect there are tons of friendly fire incidents, and huge numbers of unreported accidents that will later get written off as "rebel action".

Prior to the war in the east, during the mobilization process, before the Ukrainian media went insane, quite a few stories appeared chronicling individual accidents at various army units. If you scroll back to the earlier part of this thread you will find it. Nobody really ran a story that put together all of them in a systematic manner. Since then articles of this sort no longer appear in Ukrainian press. Have all the accidents stopped? Now that there are even bigger troop movements all across the east and other parts of Ukraine, are there suddenly no more accidents from old vehicles or from untrained operators? Of course there are. They're just not being discussed.

Vegan-Zombie said:

My question is how are they able to differentiate between the Rebels and Government troops during combat, most of the videos I've seen lack any sort of identification other than what party is identified by the author.

Click to expand...

It seams to me, that most, but not all, government troops wear some sort of yellow markings to identify them as that.

There's been some wearing orange and some with white in previous clips, denoting different units I'm guessing or at least an Army / National Guard split.

As to the "accidents", considering the number that occur in much better trained Western armies, the number of "oops" would be quite high. Just an occupational hazard.

Update.

An attempt by government troops to break out of the Lugansk airport failed. Fighting in and around the airport continues.

зри в корень - Ополченцы отбили попытку прорыва из аÑропорта ЛуганÑка
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Â Ëóãàíñêîé îáëàñòè, ãäå âî âðåìÿ îáñòðåëà áëîêïîñòà ðàíèëè æóðíàëèñòà, èäåò áîé â ðàéîíå àýðîïîðòà

Btln Azov fighter in the conflict zone.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - ÐВФ SNA, Ñ‚.н. "батальон Ðзов"

Government Grad near Donetsk.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - недалеко от Донецка

A former Berkut fighter in Gorlovka, on the rebel side.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - Горловка, "Беркут"

Official Ukrainian sources confirm 3 dead and 27 wounded in the last 24 hours. A BTR-80 and a BMP-2 hit land mines or IEDs.

Ðа Украине за Ñутки погибли трое военноÑлужащих, 27 получили ранениÑ

Ukrainian troops in and around Slavyansk.

Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата - Ещё чутка СлавÑнÑка...

Police of Slavyansk are being rounded up and arrested.

ЧаÑтный руÑÑкий журнал - Судьба приÑпоÑобленцев

A gentleman who knows how to read the markings on crates of munitions dates the some of the munitions captured in Slavyansk as 1973 and 1978. In his opinion this means that they probably didn't come from Russia, being so old. However I'm not so sure. This does mean that the silly papers Ukraine claims show that these are Russian munitions dated in the 2000s are fake. These types of munitions would have been in long term storage, not in actual military units.

In my opinion the quantity of munitions the rebels have decides the question. There is definite and large-scale Russian involvement in the supply.

Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата - Контрольный выÑтрел от tok_krupp...
Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата - И Ñнова - уважаемый tok_krupp...

Btln Donbass in Artemovsk.

zloy_odessit:

Rebels near the Donetsk airport. You can see rare and awesome footage of an SPG-9 being fired in combat.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-5FQ2jiSsM"]Батальон "ВоÑток" провел разведку боем в районе аÑропорта Донецка - YouTube[/nomedia]

A rebel group of 27 may have come out of Slavyansk back to friendly lines.

http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1658758.html

July 8 2014 volunteers from Russia are greeted by Gubarev.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2GJn_l2Yf8"]Павел Губарев - вÑтреча роÑÑийÑких добровольцев. - YouTube[/nomedia]

Battle damage in Semenovka.

http://jerry24-it.livejournal.com/200536.html

A bridge destroyed on the Kharkov-Rostov road, near Artemovsk.

http://jerry24-it.livejournal.com/200338.html

Another map of the conflict. Colonel Cassad gives Russian cossacks credit for holding the border open, and preventing it from being closed.

http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1658139.html

Rare footage of rebel positions and fighters. Note the large quantity of rebel armor in the 2:30-2:50 part, and again at 3:05-3:30.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RgV3DN-Kp0"]Донецк 10 Ð¸ÑŽÐ»Ñ / ОбÑтановка на блокпоÑтах Ð¾Ð¿Ð¾Ð»Ñ‡ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð”ÐР - ЭкÑклюзивные кадры / 10.07.2014 - YouTube[/nomedia]

Ukrainian sources claim that there is a significant number of dead rebels of Russian origin, whose bodies remain in the open and are rotting.

zloy_odessit:

Russian sources claim increased use of land mines by rebels, and preparation for a rebel offensive.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Óêðàèíñêèå ñåïàðàòèñòû, îòâåðãøèå ïåðåìèðèå ñ Êèåâîì, ìèíèðóþò äîðîãè è ãîòîâÿò íàñòóïëåíèå. Èç-çà áîåâ íà ãðàíèöå ñ ÐÔ ýâàêóèðóþò ðîññèÿí

KrAz is supplying new trucks to the National Guard. 5 so far, more to come. However they're clearly not doing it fast enough since Ukraine is also buying 44 Belarussian MAZ trucks of a similar class.

КрÐЗ начал поÑтавки военных грузовиков Ðацгвардии
БеларуÑÑŒ поÑтавит Ðацгвардии Украины 44 грузовых Ð°Ð²Ñ‚Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾Ð±Ð¸Ð»Ñ ÐœÐЗа

The Zhitomir Armored Repair Plant has repaired over 400 vehicles since the beginning of the war.

bmpd -

A new Ukrainian UAV in the hands of btln Donbass.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - БПЛРукраинÑкÐÑ… Ñиловиков

Kiev authorities can't decide whether to break up the euro-Maydan or leave it there.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Êèåâñêèå âëàñòè íå ìîãóò îïðåäåëèòüñÿ ñ Ìàéäàíîì: ïðîêóðàòóðà òðåáóåò ðàçîãíàòü, ÌÈÄ ãîâîðèò î ñèìâîëè÷íîñòè àêöèè

Ukrainian artillery hit Russian territory again, and Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs threatens Ukraine with actions, if this continues.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ìîñêâà çàÿâèëà Êèåâó ïðîòåñò èç-çà îáñòðåëà òåððèòîðèè ÐÔ è ïðèãðîçèëà îòâåòñòâåííîñòüþ â ñëó÷àå ïîâòîðåíèÿ èíöèäåíòà

Also Russian troops continue to arrive in Crimea, while Ukrainian troops concentrate on the other side of the border.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ðîññèÿ ïåðåáðàñûâàåò âîåííóþ òåõíèêó â Êðûì íà ôîíå ñëóõîâ îá óêðàèíñêèõ "Îñàõ" è "Ãðàäàõ" ó ãðàíèö ïîëóîñòðîâà (ÂÈÄÅÎ)

6 Russian regions have declared an emergency situation due to increasing numbers of Ukrainian refugees. The MChS claims they have 20 392 people in refugee camps.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com ::  øåñòè ðåãèîíàõ ÐÔ ââåëè ðåæèì ×Ñ â ñâÿçè ñ íàïëûâîì óêðàèíñêèõ áåæåíöåâ. Îíè áåãóò îò íàñèëèÿ ñåïàðàòèñòîâ, óâåðåíà Ïñàêè

Vice had a short interview with a rebel fighter who broke out of Slavyansk in one of their last video updates. He seemed to say the rebels left in columns, with the first one being "blown up" including a truck full of fighters. Lots of people apparently left on foot. Goes someway to explaining the different stories coming out of the old press.

Sorry, I've been a little busy. I will post a huge update tomorrow.

Update.

A very lucky Grad strike by the rebels hit a field camp containing elements of the 24th and 79th Mech Bdes of the Ukrainian army. They destroyed a large number of vehicles, and killed ~30, wounding ~100. Note the T-64 ripped to pieces. It's combat load cooked off.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Ðовые потери ВСУ. ОбновлÑÐµÐ¼Ð°Ñ Ð·Ð°Ð¿Ð¸ÑÑŒ
bmpd -

Ambushes on Ukrainian troop columns left 3 wounded and 1 dead. Artillery and mortar fire has killed and wounded several more. In one case a 120mm mortar hit a 2S3 Akatsiya SP Arty, and the munitions inside detonated destroying the vehicle.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - УкраинÑкие Ñводки
Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - ÐовоÑти Ñ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ñ‹

In another incident 4 Ukrainian border guards died from BM-21 Grad fire.

Вблизи Ñела ÐлекÑеевÑкое погибло еще 4 военноÑлужащих в результате обÑтрела из "Град"

A bridge between Gorlovka and Dzerzhisk destroyed.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Уничтожение моÑта

Lugansk rebels take the town of Krasnodon.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - КраÑнодон занÑÑ‚ Ñилами ЛÐÐ*

A video of the rebels seizing the MVD building in Donetsk.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Захват МВД Донецка

Photos and videos from the conflict zone. The photo of the rebels with the tank, is the rebel team led by Bezler, with a captured tank. There is a good chance that at least some of the rebels heavy equipment is captured from Ukraine. Fighting is also continuing around the Donetsk airport.

u-96.livejournal.com/3583609.html

There is a rebel counter-attack towards the heights at Saur Mogila. To clarify, the southern group of Ukrainian troops moving along the border is far east of Saur Mogila, but the heights themselves are not well defended, and taking them would cut off the sounthern maneuver element from the Ukrainian lines. If the rebels manage to take these heights, it will significantly set back the government offensive, if not shut it down entirely for the time being. Colonel Cassad has detailed descriptions of the fighting, but I see no reason to take his descriptions at face value.

http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1660053.html

Government forces using massed armor attempted an attack on Lugansk itself, but the attack failed. Government troops are now attempting a pincer movement around the city, to cut off the M-4 highway leading from Rostov to Kharkov, through Lugansk.

http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1665045.html

Battle damage photos in Kramatorsk, taken after the rebels are gone.

http://jerry24-it.livejournal.com/202439.html#cutid1

There are reports out of Donetsk that the rebels shelled parts of the city themselves. It's unclear whether it's a false flag or a mistake.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ñåïàðàòèñòû ÄÍÐ îáñòðåëÿëè ñïàëüíûé ðàéîí Äîíåöêà ïîä âèäîì óêðàèíñêèõ âîéñê

Remains of Uragan cluster munitions, in Slavyansk.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - 9M27K в СлавÑнÑке

Rebel troop column in Lugansk, you can see 4 BMP-2, 5 T-64s, 1 Grad MLRS, 5 trucks, 2 ZU-23-2, 3 MT-LB, 3 towed arty. This is the biggest rebel armored column I've seen in this conflict so far.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0TAhMAsknM"]13.07.14. Колонна бронетехники на улицах ЛуганÑка. - YouTube[/nomedia]
http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1664341.html

Rebel gun trucks from btln Vostok.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Ган-траки батальона "ВоÑток"

Photos of rebel forces.

http://cs618426.vk.me/v618426089/cc7a/nom-4j4yE0c.jpg
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsGp7EKIEAA233b.jpg
http://cs618426.vk.me/v618426089/cc83/jnYScUieZ2M.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4SpeehY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/A0ezv5y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gzRW9cD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yuvu40K.jpg

Btln Azov is using an improvised armored truck with an HMG mount (Utes machinegun). A closer look at it.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dTgTuZghzU"]ÐзовÑька "ЗалізÑка". Бронекамаз батальйону. - YouTube[/nomedia]

And government troops. Note the bridge-later being used to cross the river. Rebels have destroyed a lot of bridges in the hopes of slowing down government advances, but it appears that they haven't accomplished much.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=221664&d=1405018673
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=221661&d=1405017995
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=221660&d=1405017937
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=221659&d=1405017880

A display of captured rebel equipment from Slavyansk. The weapons are all Soviet-era, which is not surprising.

ЧаÑтный руÑÑкий журнал - #8364;аинÑкий идиотизмъ

Massive number of Russian troops are arriving in Crimea, and officers from the rest of Russia are being used to staff Crimean units.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Êðûìñêèå ÷àñòè íà÷àëè ïîïîëíÿòüñÿ îôèöåðàìè ñî âñåé Ðîññèè, à äàííûå î ïåðåáðîñêå âîåííîé òåõíèêè â Êðûì "çàñåêðåòèëè"

A Russian Msta-S howitzer tipped over in Belgorod region.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - в БелгородÑкой облаÑти перевернули ÐœÑта-С ВС Ð*Ф

Just a thought, the rebels want Russia to come in on their side obviously, so how do we know for certain that stray indirect fire that lands in Russia, is actually from the Ukrainian military? If I were a rebel, wouldn't I benefit from firing into Russia and provoking a Russian response against the Ukraine? Has this possibility been discussed? Seems like a great way to bring the Russians into the fray, and how would Russia know 'who' fired the rounds? Both sides have artillery, either tubed or rocket.

Rimasta said:

Just a thought, the rebels want Russia to come in on their side obviously, so how do we know for certain that stray indirect fire that lands in Russia, is actually from the Ukrainian military? If I were a rebel, wouldn't I benefit from firing into Russia and provoking a Russian response against the Ukraine? Has this possibility been discussed? Seems like a great way to bring the Russians into the fray, and how would Russia know 'who' fired the rounds? Both sides have artillery, either tubed or rocket.

Click to expand...

No clear way to tell, at this point I'd say it could certainly be the rebels. Prior to this point, I was moderately certain that the rebels didn't have tube artillery but this seems to have changed in the last 10-15 days.

At this point I would say that Russia is backing the rebels with weapons and supplies on such a scale that denying involvement is no longer realistic. So far there's no proof for a court of law, but the quantities of rebel munitions, and armor, are such that capturing them from the Ukrainian military seems hardly a realistic explanation.

Another thing to note, the rebels don't seem to have a lack of BM-21 Grad munitions, and are firing full packets of missiles from them, while government troops are so short on these munitions, they've been firing them several at a time.

I have not seen a field hit by Grad rockets before, but shouldn't there be a lot more pot holes on the grass? All I can see in the picture with destroyed ukranian armor is the burned out vehicles.