Philippine Air Force Discussions and Updates

Andri F · Dec 8, 2012

Ananda said:
For me, despite numerous 'questionable' press release on Philippines Media (questionable in sense on follow up), one thing that puzzle me is lack of any plan for upgrading Aeriel Surveillance Radar system. There are talks on cooperation with US on 'Maritime' surveillance system, but nearly zero on Aerial/Ground Base Radar system.

Just wandering what PAF really plan for. They want LIFT, well that a reasonable one. Rebuilding basic capabilities for Fast Jet operations. However how you expect to conduct effective aerial patrolling if you don't see what you're looking on first.

As far as I know, on the early 2000 when most of the Fighter is grounded due to lack of spares and money to fly them properly, Indonesian AF still try to set asside some budget for Radar operations. In fact they still put plan for procurement of Radar system, even-though only 30% of the fighter fleet can fly.

TNI-AU was not an example of good operational AF, especially on the early 2000 era. However even they, still on the hard time did their best to make the radars still operational. I believe most AF will maintain at least minimal surveillance capabilities. RNZAF did not have operational fast jet now, but even they still maintain operational aerial surveillance.

Just amaze me that with a lot of plan for PAF upgrade, not 'concrete' thing being discussed for rebuilding their Ground Radar system. You can add commercial radar to cover some of the blank spot as temporary solution (just like TNI-AU done so far), but you still need military specs ground aerial surveillance system for your principal area.

I've posted a while back about plans of setting up a radar in Palawan being derailed. About the LIFT, they could be used to augment our COIN efforts.

There is also a Coast Watch.

" Recent announcement from the Pentagon during President Aquino's visit to Washington, said the US will provide a powerful land-based radar to the Philippines.

The radar system dubbed as “watch center” will track ships and aircraft off the Philippine archipelago’s coastline, and is connected to US servers in real time, according to a Pentagon spokesperson.

“We are in the initial planning stages of assisting the Philippines with a National Coast Watch Center,” says Major Catherine Wilkinson.

The United States will be funding the construction of the National Coast Watch Center, and share surveillance and intelligence data with the Philippines."
The Exciting Centennial of Philippine Aviation: US made defense radar to be operational next year

Ananda · Dec 8, 2012

Andri F said:
I've posted a while back about plans of setting up a radar [/url]

Yes, I already see it. Also read about coastal watch. That's basically the simmilar system that US already help Indonesia setting up along busy ship lanes.

My point is, PAF seems did not put high priority on setting up ground based aerial Radar system, knowing there none operating now watching Philipines sovereign air space. They should at least set priority to replace the ex US system that being left after they pull out. That lacked of urgency (at least in my reading) that for me is just amaze me.

I'm no expert on this, Agree on LIFT priority, but the way I see it, some other procurement being planned for PAF other than LIFT, but no aerial radar system.
Off course I can be wrong since not see all info, however to begin preparing on operating ground radar system, PAF shoul also begin to create organisation /unit that going to be responsible on that. Looking on PAF organisation I simply do not see it, or maybe just miss it.

Andri F · Dec 11, 2012

Ananda said:
Yes, I already see it. Also read about coastal watch. That's basically the simmilar system that US already help Indonesia setting up along busy ship lanes.

My point is, PAF seems did not put high priority on setting up ground based aerial Radar system, knowing there none operating now watching Philipines sovereign air space. They should at least set priority to replace the ex US system that being left after they pull out. That lacked of urgency (at least in my reading) that for me is just amaze me.

When the US left, our leaders were still lax on modernization until the Mischief Reef incident then modernization comes but the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis and the focus on COIN halted that. From then, what meager resources the AFP has is focused on the COIN effort.
Besides, a lot of Filipinos still believe that Uncle Sam would come to our aid in war with the PRC.

STURM · Dec 11, 2012

Todjaeger said:
A few things, while so far unable to locate the programme price for Malaysia's Hawk 208 or Indonesia's Hawk 209, they are single seat fighter/attack jets, not two seater jet trainers. Further, the general per aircraft price of various Hawk jets has been between $29 mil to $33 mil.

Malaysia in 1992 paid 2 billion ringgit [the exchange rate then was 3.60 ringgit to a pound] for 18 single seat Hawks 200s and 10 twin seat Hawks 100s. Included in the package was a training package [3 RAF pilots were seconded to Malaysia to assist in developing a training curriculum], a spares package and a Hunting Engineering mission planning aid. Several million more rinngit was spent on Sidewinders, CB-90 clusters, free fall bombs, unguided rockets and a simulator. More recently a few million ringgit has also been spent on overhauling the Adour engines, a large spares package and fitting LCD engine monotoring panels.

W3-A Sokol · Dec 17, 2012

New AFP Modernization Law

Mr. Aquino has signed a new law extending the armed forces of the Philippines modernization program by another 15 years and allocating almost $2 Billion for the acquisition of military equiptments ...

Philippines Extends Military Modernisation Law for Further 15 Years
By Jon Grevatt/Janes
12/13/2012

Philippine President Benigno Aquino signed into law on 11 December measures extending the modernisation of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) for a further 15 years and the allocation of PHP75 billion (USD1.8 billion) for defence procurement over the next five years.

The legislation, Republic Act (RA) No. 10349, also formally establishes processes that are geared to accelerate the AFP's acquisition of materiel by enhancing the efficiency and accountability of military procurement practices.

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W3-A Sokol · Dec 27, 2012

With 3rd C-130 Commissioned, Air Force Boosts Cargo Assets

By: Jaime Sinapit, InterAksyon.com
December 27, 2012 2:27 PM

MANILA, Philippines – Forced by circumstance to do with only one C-130 as its “work horse” for four years, the Philippine Air Force (PAF) will continue to redress its fleet scarcity with the commissioning of a locally refurbished C-130 on Friday at the Villamor Air Base in Pasay City.

It’s the third cargo plane to become operational since the military started to reverse the pathetic one-workhorse plane status, a project with a price tag of P579-million.

Leading the formal turnover and blessing of the first ever locally maintained C-130B Nr 3633 is PAF commander Lt. Gen. Lauro Catalino Dela Cruz.

(Source:InterAksyon.com)

Ananda · Dec 31, 2012

From Philipines Tempo sites : PAF to have new radars | Tempo - News in a Flash

This is the first info that I have seen from Philipines concerning acquisition plan for ground bases air survailance radar. The news talked about three radars on three PAF main sites, thus I presumed this to replaced old US supplied radar on that sites.

Any more realiable info on this plan ?

fretburner · Jan 31, 2013

I guess this little bit of news makes it official? First win for the T-50?

Philippines To Buy 12 S. Korean Fighter Jets

MANILA — The Philippines will buy 12 South Korean FA-50 fighter jets to strengthen its poorly armed military, government spokesmen said Jan. 30 amid increasing maritime tensions with China...

Not sure about the FA (instead of TA) designation though. But it's all good!

koxinga · Feb 1, 2013

fretburner said:
I guess this little bit of news makes it official? First win for the T-50?

Philippines To Buy 12 S. Korean Fighter Jets

MANILA — The Philippines will buy 12 South Korean FA-50 fighter jets to strengthen its poorly armed military, government spokesmen said Jan. 30 amid increasing maritime tensions with China...

Not sure about the FA (instead of TA) designation though. But it's all good!

Not exactly. They have basically down selected the FA-50 but there is no pen-to-paper yet on the exact composition (e.g numbers, ILS etc) and final cost for the deal.

And no, not a first win for the T-50 (Indonesia, TNI-AU), but for the FA-50. Still, it remains to be seen whether they end up with the FA-50 variant.

adroth · Apr 22, 2013

koxinga said:
Not exactly. They have basically down selected the FA-50 but there is no pen-to-paper yet on the exact composition (e.g numbers, ILS etc) and final cost for the deal.

The PAF has already indicated that it is acquiring 12 aircraft.

Most recently cited authorized budget for the deal is P18B, but no official documents have surfaced to corroborate that value

adroth · Apr 22, 2013

Ananda said:
My point is, PAF seems did not put high priority on setting up ground based aerial Radar system, knowing there none operating now watching Philipines sovereign air space. They should at least set priority to replace the ex US system that being left after they pull out. That lacked of urgency (at least in my reading) that for me is just amaze me.

Radars and base development are all part of the integrated plan that includes the SAA/LIFT aircraft. The PAF understands that air defense is a systems fight.

Just because you don't see something reported in the press (or at least not reported as often) doesn't mean that it isn't happening.

On the matter of absence of a radar detection capability. That is actually untrue. In 2006 the PAF entered into an arrangement with the Air Transportation Office to obtain feeds from civilian primary search radars (not to be confused with transponder-only secondary radars) at select airports

Yes, I already see it. Also read about coastal watch. That's basically the simmilar system that US already help Indonesia setting up along busy ship lanes.

This project is different from the PAF's own radar project.

STURM · Apr 23, 2013

adroth said:
On the matter of absence of a radar detection capability. That is actually untrue. In 2006 the PAF entered into an arrangement with the Air Transportation Office to obtain feeds from civilian primary search radars (not to be confused with transponder-only secondary radars) at select airports

Ananda didn't say anything about the Philippines not having a radar capability. He was replying to a question I posed as to whether the PAF has its own ground based radars or if coverage is provided by civillian radars. I read somewhere about the PAF operating a pair of U.S built radars until some years ago.

adroth · Apr 23, 2013

STURM said:
Ananda didn't say anything about the Philippines not having a radar capability. He was replying to a question I posed as to whether the PAF has its own ground based radars or if coverage is provided by civillian radars. I read somewhere about the PAF operating a pair of U.S built radars until some years ago.

The actual status of the radar stations the the US left-behind is unclear. A couple of years ago, CG PAF made a show of inspecting the control room for Wallace station, but there were no details reveal about whether or not the PAF was actively operating the system -- despite the fact that we don't have enough assets to prosecute whatever contacts we get -- or if they are simply maintaining the facility in preparation for re-commencement of operations.

The PAF does have a deal with the ATO, now the Civil Aviation Authority, to receive data feeds from primary search radars at key airports. So we at least have that visibility.

Radars are part of this phase of the capability upgrade program. Details about the state of the project are not readily available -- as are other aspects of the system-wide plan. The DND appears to be focusing the press' attention mainly on the LIFT project

Ananda · Jul 2, 2013

from Philippines News Agency site: http://www.pna.gov.ph/index.php?idn=&sid=&nid=&rid=540192

MANILA, July 2 (PNA) -– Swedish-made supersonic Gripen plane is emerging as the next generation of jet fighter aircraft being considered by the Philippine Air Force (PAF) for its long-overdue modernization program.

A random interview conducted by Philippines News Agency on Tuesday indicated that PAF pilots prefer the Gripen jet-fighters to other types (of fighter planes) because of its lower cost, yet armed with sophisticated latest stand-off long-range anti-ship weapons and air-to-air missiles.

Representatives from Gripen were in Manila last month to participate in the annual PAF symposium held at the Mall of Asia in suburban Pasay City. They said they would be happy to sell to the Philippines the multi-role Gripen fighter jets.

Gripen for PAF ? Hope since this come out from state news agency, can be more credible than just a journalist speculations. Before on PhilStar, President Aquino quoted on modernization of PAF, however did not mentioned any Front line Fighter rather than LIFT.
Noy vows modern Air Force by 2016 | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com.

“Be assured that before I step down from office, our skies will teem with new and modern equipment such as lead-in fighters, long-range patrol aircraft, close air support aircraft, light lift fixed-wing aircraft, medium lift aircraft, attack helicopters, combat utility helicopters, air defense radar and flight simulators,” Aquino said.

PhilStar article show more in line with the development. Getting LIFT in the form of FA-50 and replacing OV-10 as COIN (based on the development so far probably with Super Tucano although some talk in Philippines forum also indicated KAI also offering their own COIN KT-1 based the KO-1), seems so far what the talked.

Hope they are not side tracking on getting Gripen since their budget of P75 billion (USD 1.72 bio) for 5 years to overall Armed Forces will be hard press to fulfill what President Aquino promised for PAF, let alone their other plan for Army and Navy. Getting Gripen will be take large chunk of the budget, on preparing the infrastructure for Gripen let alone acquiring the Gripen. What's the point on getting Gripen, or other fancy fighters, if in the end this mean PAF,will not get the LIFT and other infrastructure (like ground radars, simulators, advance ground support etc) to prepared fast jets operations and preparing pilots.

koxinga · Jul 3, 2013

Random interview + Saab team in Manila = headline "PAF eyes Gripin as next generation of fighter planes for its modernization"

A article that can't even bother to get the title correct... you decide for yourself.

There has been a whole recent stream poorly written news articles on defence in Philippines where editors and journalists took liberties with what has been said and 'fill-in the blanks' themselves to beef up the rag.

Ananda · Jul 3, 2013

PH to buy two Maestrale frigates from Italy | Inquirer Global Nation

CREDIBLE DEFENSE | DND preps for 24 big-ticket projects that Aquino wants before 2016 - InterAksyon.com

Yes, what come out from media in Philippines really can be confusing and raised questions which are true, which are fictional and which are just a wishy-wishy.

Take a look on the sites above. Both dated 3 July 2013, talk about continue mordernisation. Both quoting DoD officials. The Globalnation talk that the deal for 2 Maestralle Frigates is on going, while the Interaksyon ones say the Maestralle won't be procured and they will go for new build Frigates.

Is just an example an unclear and confusing Philippines DoD statements, that caused their media makes their own assumptions. This certaintly raised questions on the Credibility of Philipines DoD, and perhaps their decision making process.

Sandhi Yudha · Sep 6, 2013

Second crash has PAF rethinking P18.9-B Korean FA50 jet option
By: Jaime Sinapit, InterAksyon.com
September 1, 2013 4:28 PM

MANILA - The Philippine Air Force (PAF) is closely following developments in the crash investigation of the T-50B lead-in jet fighter that killed two pilots recently, in light of earlier plans to work out with the same manufacturer the purchase of a dozen FA50 jet fighters with the same platform as the T-50B, for P18.9 billion.

The aircraft is billed in one article that reported the crash as “South Korea’s first indigenous supersonic aircraft jointly developed by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) and Lockheed Martin.”

It also said the crash Wednesday last week off southwestern Gwanju City was the second one involving said aircraft. In November 2012, a T-50 crashed “into a mountain…killing a pilot,” added the article.

A representative from KAI met some officials of the Department of National Defense last Friday, sources said.

More at
Second crash has PAF rethinking Korean FA50 jet option - InterAksyon.com

tonnyc · Sep 30, 2013

What is this Credit Line Certificate?

Sources privy to the bidding said Dirgantara did not satisfy all the required bid documents under the Procurement Law. A source said that "during the opening of bid documents, Dirgantara was not able to present a Credit Line Certification from a local financial commercial bank in the Philippines. What it presented only is an ongoing transmittal transaction."

Given this, the source said, the BAC "should have declared failed bidding and possibly announced there and then a rebid. We also don’t know why BAC gave the Technical Working Group 7 days to evaluate Dirgantara’s documents, for what?”

A second source said the “lacking document” of Dirgantara will be covered by “a post qualification” process, adding that this is "very very irregular.”

Questions hound PAF's P800-M fixed-wing aircraft project bidding; DND mum - InterAksyon.com

Bolding mine.

The best reference I could find about what a Credit Line Certificate is some forum discussion here, which helps, but was not sufficiently clear. From that and what I recall of previous Philippine procurement, it seems the DND wants to make sure that the bidder has enough money to finish the project. But not being familiar with this sort of banking, I can't be sure.

Fortunately I remember that Ananda works in banking at a level high enough that he may be familiar with what's going on. So this is mostly for Ananda, but also anyone who understands a bit more about banking and defense procurement. Is my understanding correct? Is the CLC important? Or is this just politics again (I note that the sources remain nameless)? What should Indonesian Aerospace do? How did PAL evade the issue?

Also, other than "the law says so", is there any reason why it should even matter? From the POV of a defense enthusiast, is it even worth paying attention? To me, this looks like mere formality. The idea that Indonesian Aerospace will somehow fail to secure funding to complete production is ridiculous. However, if this gets enough traction to turn this into a failed bid, then the medium-lift aircraft acquisition would be affected too.

Ananda · Sep 30, 2013

Without looking on the detail of what kind of Credit Line Certifications that Philippines DoD wants, I can only guessed:

1. It can mean somekind of Bank Guarantee for DI for certain amount of financial back-up to finish a project. Some bidding process also besides required this Bank Guarantee, also demand it's back up by surety bonds (usually released by insurance company) for other safety/emergency issue that can developed during project.

2. It can also mean existing credit line that DI has for working capital facilities from DI's Bank. If this what they asked, it means simply comfirmation that DI has enough credit line/working capital to finished the project. Considering that few years ago DI did have problem on timelines of project completion, due to working capital issue. Then asking them for this kind of financial back-up is not unreasonable.

In short, the first one is simply project per project basis financial back-up. The second one is more permanet availability of financial back up. Usually on project bidding, the first one is the requirements. The second one is much less seldom being asked, but not unheard of, especially if bidders that participate has history for financial reliability on finishing projects.

koxinga · Sep 30, 2013

Ananda said:
Without looking on the detail of what kind of Credit Line Certifications that Philippines DoD wants, I can only guessed:

1. It can mean somekind of Bank Guarantee for DI for certain amount of financial back-up to finish a project. Some bidding process also besides required this Bank Guarantee, also demand it's back up by surety bonds (usually released by insurance company) for other safety/emergency issue that can developed during project.

2. It can also mean existing credit line that DI has for working capital facilities from DI's Bank. If this what they asked, it means simply comfirmation that DI has enough credit line/working capital to finished the project. Considering that few years ago DI did have problem on timelines of project completion, due to working capital issue. Then asking them for this kind of financial back-up is not unreasonable.

In short, the first one is simply project per project basis financial back-up. The second one is more permanet availability of financial back up. Usually on project bidding, the first one is the requirements. The second one is seldom being asked, but unheard of, especially if bidders that participate has history for financial reliability on finishing projects.

The requirement seems to be for a local export bank (Philippines) to provide certification that DI has the necessary export credit. An Indonesian bank providing that certification does not seem to be acceptable. So the question is not whether DI has credit/working capital; it's who says so.

Frankly, is that even practical, given the short bidding cycle?

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