Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Ex Nahkoda Ragam for TNI-AL

from Seputar Indonesia daily with Google Translate: Harian Seputar Indonesia, Sumber Referensi Terpercaya

Jakarta - Program type frigate warship procurement of Brunei Darussalam is expected to begin to be realized next year. Purchase plan that was opposed by the House of Representatives because of the quality of the vessel in doubt.

However, the Chief of Staff of the Navy (KSAL) Admiral Soeparno ensure that the ship was in a state of war sempurna.Tiga of British ships would come gradually from 2013 to 2014. KSAL assess Indonesia is fortunate to have three units ship. Because the ships are armed with complete was bought at a bargain price.

"Only issued USD380 million for the three unit.Brunei just bought the boat with a unit price of $ 600 million," he said in Jakarta yesterday. According to him, Brunei not be bought from the British frigate was not suitable for the non-technical. "They ordered a large ship, but it was a little navy. So (ship) would be, they are confused, "he explained.

On the one hand, Indonesia is requiring reinforcement warships for the Navy. It is seen as an opportunity to get an extra ship cheaply as Brunei itself is not so wear it. Moreover, the ship was armed complete. Not only that, the ship was also made to a high specification.

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The Navy (TNI-Al) Chief seems indicated the procurement for 3 ex Brunei Nahkoda Ragam class Light Frigate still got momentum to occurred. His reinforce the Navy and Mindef position with USD 380 mio deal for all 3 Nahkoda Ragam ships, it's a good deal for vessels that are not being used operationally by Brunei Navy.

Some opposition from Parliament (as expected from Opposition parties), seems still going on. However as the Leopard 2 and F-16 saga, many believe it will be pass on.

Ananda said:

Some opposition from Parliament (as expected from Opposition parties), seems still going on. However as the Leopard 2 and F-16 saga, many believe it will be pass on.

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Those MPs will absolutely say OK after sightseeing to Germany and caught by Indonesian students when shopping in the luxury shops using tax payers money.

Ananda said:

The Navy (TNI-Al) Chief seems indicated the procurement for 3 ex Brunei Nahkoda Ragam class Light Frigate still got momentum to occurred. His reinforce the Navy and Mindef position with USD 380 mio deal for all 3 Nahkoda Ragam ships, it's a good deal for vessels that are not being used operationally by Brunei Navy.

Some opposition from Parliament (as expected from Opposition parties), seems still going on. However as the Leopard 2 and F-16 saga, many believe it will be pass on.

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May be another sightseeing to the UK is necessary plus some VIP tickets for watching Premier League match for those MPs. After all, they have only two years left for exploring the globe without their own money.

Thanks for the good news Ananda
I actually wanted to post a question about the Nakhoda Ragams deal today, but you have already answered me by posting this....

Gadjah Mada said:

Those MPs will absolutely say OK after sightseeing to Germany and caught by Indonesian students when shopping in the luxury shops using tax payers money.




May be another sightseeing to the UK is necessary plus some VIP tickets for watching Premier League match for those MPs. After all, they have only two years left for exploring the globe without their own money.

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hehehe: Ini Dia Foto Anggota DPR Asyik 'Plesiran' di Denmark - Yahoo! News Indonesia

Thanks

Indonesian Trimaran FPB Burned

From Kompas on-line : http://regional.kompas.com/read/2012/09/28/21414653/Kebakaran.KRI.Klewang.Diduga.akibat.Korsleting

The brand new Trimaran FPB KRI Klewang, that just being launch a month ago, totally burned down. The cause still under investigations, however the indication is electrical short -circuit during the fitting. I suspect, the damage control system is not properly installed yet.

The vessels under system fitting, and scheduled to undergo sea trial in October-November. Well, despite their ambitions, North Sea Boat still a small company, and this FPB is the biggest vessel they have made. Hope this accident will not made them go-under financially. So far this small company already show more innovation than larger and more established Indonesian shipyard.

Just wandering though, the extent of the burning remind me of HMS Sheffield aluminum superstructure fire after the Argentinean Exocet hit her. This KRI Klewang supposedly build nearly all based on carbon composite material. Is carbon composite material as flammable as aluminum ?

Ananda said:

Just wandering though, the extent of the burning remind me of HMS Sheffield aluminum superstructure fire after the Argentinean Exocet hit her. This KRI Klewang supposedly build nearly all based on carbon composite material. Is carbon composite material as flammable as aluminum ?

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I have no experience of using Fiber carbon materials but I have used fiber glass composites. Actually both materials have resin content which is very flammable. I have experience that a little bit of mistreatment it will burn easily.

And according to this report: www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/07-57.pdf

The composite has about 20-30% of resin content.

We do not know though, whether KRI Klewang hull made purely of fiber carbon composites or sandwich structure with sheet materials which is exist in common fiber glass boat.

Hope Lundin could learn a lot from this and keep make improvisation. Indeed they need damage control management expert for next time.

@ Ananda Carbon fibre is only fire resistant for a certain amount of time when treated with vermiculite.I know when carbon fibre is used in construction for buildings it has to be treated to ensure a fire rating. It usually has a 60/30/30 fire rating.

Its a shame that this boat has burnt down,but i do not think that Carbon fibre is an adequate product to produce naval vessels.

RIP KRI Klewang

Very disappointing !!!
They always talk this ship is high tech.
But they don't aware high tech means high chance they will meet high covert action to get the tech or to destroy the tech.

Ananda said:

Just wandering though, the extent of the burning remind me of HMS Sheffield aluminum superstructure fire after the Argentinean Exocet hit her.

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There was no aluminium superstructure fire on HMS Sheffield. That story was an invention of the media.

Ananda said:

This KRI Klewang supposedly build nearly all based on carbon composite material. Is carbon composite material as flammable as aluminum ?

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Carbon comes in many forms like coal, wood, charcoal, etc…. All well known as good sources for fuel for fires.

Looking at this video you would have to question the suitability of this material for a naval vessel.

It is a pretty ferocious fire.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk-SIKhM78w"]Kapal Canggih KRI Klewang-625 Terbakar - YouTube[/nomedia]

I have no experience of using Fiber carbon materials but I have used fiber glass composites. Actually both materials have resin content which is very flammable. I have experience that a little bit of mistreatment it will burn easily.

And according to this report: www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/07-57.pdf

The composite has about 20-30% of resin content.

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@ Ananda Carbon fibre is only fire resistant for a certain amount of time when treated with vermiculite.I know when carbon fibre is used in construction for buildings it has to be treated to ensure a fire rating. It usually has a 60/30/30 fire rating.

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Carbon comes in many forms like coal, wood, charcoal, etc…. All well known as good sources for fuel for fires.

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Gents. thank you all for the info and comment. Investigations already commencing, and as predicted some politicians already questioning the validations of the materials for Naval vessels.

According to Seputar Indonesia printed editions (no online versions yet). The North Sea Boat already says they will replace the vessels on their cost (indicating that the vessels is fully insured), and can produce/manufactured the replacement much faster than the original one.

They admit that the damage control system is not fully operational yet, and the fire arise from electrical short-circuit due to fitting project of electronics installations and sensors. Seems they rush the fitting project while emergency and safety systems not fully operational. Well on my book, this indicated problem on their finishing procedure.

North Sea Boat now has to come out with the explanation on the feasibility of the materials for operational naval environment. They claim that the their material basically similar with what Lockheed and Austal use when manufacturing LCS.

That's a real shame for Indonesia... something must have gone terribly wrong somewhere, whether it was damage control or material choice or both, for it to burn to the waterline like that, surely? God knows what would happen to the thing if it were hit with an anti-ship weapon of any kind...

I don't know much if anything about naval construction but it seems very unusual to see a military vessel burn down like that, even from battle damage. Do you know how many crew were aboard at the time? Could a minimal crew presence possibly contribute to the lack of damage control?

Bonza said:

I don't know much if anything about naval construction but it seems very unusual to see a military vessel burn down like that, even from battle damage. Do you know how many crew were aboard at the time? Could a minimal crew presence possibly contribute to the lack of damage control?

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No crew or at least no Naval crew on board. The vessel still under the responsibility of the builders at that time, thus no turn over to the Navy commencing yet. There are enough workers from North Sea Boats that laboring to meet the date line for sea trial. No casualties from the workers, however the news seems indicated they caught unprepared, panic and just left the vessel. Just as I mentioned before most of the work being done related to electrical and sensors installations.

According to the builders, the minimum fire damage control system like sprinklers has been installed but not operational yet. That's why, in my opinion they rush the work without follow the procedures properly. I don't know either with the Naval manufacturing practices, however common sense seems indicated that minimum damage control system has to be installed first, before moving to other installations.

That's what the politicians in here demanded, the North Sea boat to give thorough investigations before the project can still moving in completion (4 similar vessels in the contract).

Right know the incidents thus raise the questions in here, mostly related to the suitability of carbon fiber materials for Naval vessels. The origin of the materials also got some mismatch information. Some says the North Sea Boats sources it from German manufacturers, others says it's from China. One thing clear its no domestic materials yet, since no carbon fiber manufacturer in Indonesia come out with a naval acceptable standard yet.

Trimaran Corvette Concepts

Lot of riding for North Sea Boats. If they can not give proper investigations and the explanations on their Damage control procedures and feasibility of the Carbon Fiber materials for Naval Vessels, then they can kiss the further program good bye.

They already show upgrade concepts from Trimaran FPB, which they call Trimaran Corvette.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KjGSykdsrk"]TNI AL Gunakan Rudal Supersonic Saat Latihan Perang - YouTube[/nomedia]

TNI-AL conduct second firing of Yakhont. The missiles being fired also from same ship as the first one, Van Speijk Frigates KRI Oswald S. The video unlike the first test, show the result. Direct hit on the target, an unused Frosch LST. The first test earlier this year supposed also sink an old US made (ex WW2) LST.

The news man stated that TNI-AL plan to equip 8 ships with Yakhont eventually. It's predicted that all Van Speijk will be equiped with Yakhont. However with only 6 (some unconfirmed report say in fact only 5 being operational and maintained), not clear which other vessels will be equiped by Yakhont.

Ananda said:

TNI AL Gunakan Rudal Supersonic Saat Latihan Perang - YouTube

TNI-AL conduct second firing of Yakhont. The missiles being fired also from same ship as the first one, Van Speijk Frigates KRI Oswald S. The video unlike the first test, show the result. Direct hit on the target, an unused Frosch LST. The first test earlier this year supposed also sink an old US made (ex WW2) LST.

The news man stated that TNI-AL plan to equip 8 ships with Yakhont eventually. It's predicted that all Van Speijk will be equiped with Yakhont. However with only 6 (some unconfirmed report say in fact only 5 being operational and maintained), not clear which other vessels will be equiped by Yakhont.

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Thanks, i saw this video 2 days ago, and i already thought That looks like a Frosch LST. Do you know which ship (reg number) it was? Are all other of these Frosch LSTs active/operational or are they in a not too good condition?
Its Remarkable that they show the result of the test to the public, last time they keep the result secret. The ship sunk in a very short time: that must be a big hole. The P800 Oniks/Yakhont is definitely the most powerfull anti-ship missile in TNI-AL inventory.

"
The news man stated that TNI-AL plan to equip 8 ships with Yakhont eventually."
Maybe its a mistake, KRI Hajar Dewantara 364 and the Nakhoda Ragam ships are too small and i dont expect the missile will be placed on the new SIGMA 10514 frigates.

Sandhi Yudha said:

Thanks, i saw this video 2 days ago, and i already thought That looks like a Frosch LST. Do you know which ship (reg number) it was? Are all other of these Frosch LSTs active/operational or are they in a not too good condition?

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It`s KRI Teluk Berau 534. In TNI AL Inventory it`s called Teluk Gilimanuk class.

You can open: Garuda Militer: Teluk Gilimanuk Class
and: http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/KRI_Teluk_Gilimanuk_(531)
for further information in Bahasa Indonesia.

I think not all of them are in good condition. But some are still used like in the last Armada Jaya Exercise: KRI Teluk Celukan Bawang 532 and KRI Teluk Sibolga 536.

Ananda said:

The news man stated that TNI-AL plan to equip 8 ships with Yakhont eventually. It's predicted that all Van Speijk will be equiped with Yakhont. However with only 6 (some unconfirmed report say in fact only 5 being operational and maintained), not clear which other vessels will be equiped by Yakhont.

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I wonder whether the next PKR (Sigma) 105 is already included. Some speculation said that TNI AL will actually put order on 2 frigates. It is interesting though, considering PT PAL was the Integrator of Yakhont at KRI OWA 354.

Anyway PKR is actually the official classification from TNI AL for van Speijk class.

TNI-AL still use (at least officialy) term Perusak Kawal or Destroyer Escort for Frigates. However in media they still call them Frigates. 2 Sigma 10541 seems being says as the target for the first batch of Domestic PKR program. We'll have to be seen though about this project.

Yakhont on Armada Jaya XXXI

This is the latest video, an official video.

You can see when they install the Yakhont and seconds of the hit.

Looks some new camo for the navy.
This yearly train of Indonesian navy consist about 6000 personnel.

Waiting for next video joint exercise this month

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ9WICNWSJc"]Armada Jaya XXXI Tahun 2012 TNI AL - YouTube[/nomedia]

From Tempo on line:
Indonesia Akan Beli Peralatan Militer dari Inggris | nasional | Mobile Tempo.co

Sorry did not translate first. Basically an MoU between Indonesia and UK being signed Thursday in London which include procurement on several UK weapons like Starstreak short range SAM and Multipurpose Light Frigates (MLRF).

Well so far I do not know any other UK made MLRF on market asside ex Brunai Nahkoda Ragam. If this is NR class then I presume it will replace 3 old Tribal frigates that being decomm by TNI-AL, but has not been replaced so far.