Philippine Air Force Discussions and Updates

dazzerler1

Banned Member
1st video and recently uploaded photos of today's PAF 65th founding anniversary celebration, it's been a 'LONG TIME' since I've seen something like this and is probably a sign of things to come in the next few years ...

Air force celebrates 'modest' planes - YouTube


https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.377039219029424.89733.195218547211493&type=1
Nice but what is it for when they can't protect Scarborough Shoal or the other claimed Philippine territories? Attached is an article that should be implemented by the Philippine government.

Zamboanga Today Online, the most read newspaper in Zamboanga City | AFP modernization: 48 jetfighters, more naval vessels and 4 to 6 mini submarines needed
 

colay

New Member
1st video and recently uploaded photos of today's PAF 65th founding anniversary celebration, it's been a 'LONG TIME' since I've seen something like this and is probably a sign of things to come in the next few years for the dilapidated organization ...

Air force celebrates 'modest' planes - YouTube


https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.377039219029424.89733.195218547211493&type=1
I grew up in Nichols Air Base and have many fond memories of the Blue Diamonds and various guest aerobatic teams.. brings back good memories and hopefully it is the beginning of a renaissance.
 

colay

New Member
Interesting that the PAF will be getting 3 new radars, presumably these would be part of the US commitment to set up a National Coast Watch Center. A good start with hopefully more to follow considering the length of the Philippine coastline.

Air force eyeing new bases | BusinessWorld Online Edition

The department has targeted to approve 138 modernization projects by the end of July, including three radars systems, 21 utility helicopters, 10 attack helicopters, four additional search-and-rescue helicopters, two long-range patrol aircraft, a special mission aircraft, three medium-lift aircraft and 12 lead-in fighters. These are expected to boost the air power in the next two years.
 

dazzerler1

Banned Member
The PAF has announced yesterday during it's 65th founding anniversary celebration that it plans to open additional air bases in the next few years as more air assets arrive ...

Air force eyeing new bases | BusinessWorld Online Edition

DEFENSE STUDIES: Five Type Warplanes were Expected to be Delivered within Two Years

Philippine Air Force to get new warplanes by 2014 - Yahoo! News

This is an excellent news for the Philippines. The sooner the better, although it will not be enough for minimal defensive purposes at this time based on previous study posted here in this forum. The PAF must start somewhere so this is a very good running start. Hopefully other infrastructures are commencing in parallel to the acquisition of these five types of aircraft. I would think that pilots had already been selected to undergo the required training on these aircrafts? The PAF should be sending these pilots to South Korea to get acquianted/trained with the TA50 so when the planes are delivered that the PAF will have trained pilots already. At least that is how I will plan this acquisition if I were in-charge of the PAF. Of course this will depend on the type of acquisition contract between the Philippines and South Korea. Anymore news on the acquisition of other naval assets in addition to the second Hamilton?
 

ManilaBoy

Banned Member
Quick question, would the Philippine Air force ever look for a brand new Cheap fighter such as Taiwan's AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo or Pakistan's JF-17.
The PAF is currently in a transitional stage which means it would not be possible for them to jump right into a MRF aircraft without going tru training future pilots and an advanced LIFT aircraft is the most feasible alternative during this rebuilding period ...
 

dazzerler1

Banned Member
Quick question, would the Philippine Air force ever look for a brand new Cheap fighter such as Taiwan's AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo or Pakistan's JF-17.

This is pure speculation on my part but I would assume that the Philippine government went through an selection process and probably had some type of scoring matrics that they assigned for every fighter that were being considered or evaluated? Again, that criteria is privy to the PAF and high ranking officials that made the decision on what aircraft they purchased. I suppose the criteria that were established and considered were up-front cost or initial purchase price, maintenance costs, aircraft's predicted reliability and maintainability, ease of acquiring repair components, cost or ease of maintenance, training of personnel that are responsible for upkeep of the aircraft, initial training of pilots, support from manufacturer, and expected or predicted life of aircraft (durability aspect), etc.

What is cheap based on low initial cost/price may not be cheap at all down the road. Therefore, everything is relative and each potential aircraft purchaser must do the cost-benifit analyses.
 

ManilaBoy

Banned Member
Would you classify Taiwan's AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo as a LIFT, MRF or both. I think if PAF wanted a cheap MRF, the AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo & the JF-17 Thunder would be the way to go. Looking at the fly away cost for both, here's the fly away cost

AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo $25 & $30 million

JF-17 Thunder : Block 1: $15–20 million, Block 2: $20–25 million

For MRF pilot training, I think they can contract it out to the USAF and pay the USAF to train their pilots.
I believed both aircraft are classified as MRF if I'm not mistaken and are definitely not in the advanced trainer category ...
 

dazzerler1

Banned Member
Would you classify Taiwan's AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo as a LIFT, MRF or both. I think if PAF wanted a cheap MRF, the AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo & the JF-17 Thunder would be the way to go. Looking at the fly away cost for both, here's the fly away cost

AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo $25 & $30 million

JF-17 Thunder : Block 1: $15–20 million, Block 2: $20–25 million

For MRF pilot training, I think they can contract it out to the USAF and pay the USAF to train their pilots.
At this stage, the wheel is already in motion for the Philippines to acquire LIFT from South Korea. SK could have given the RP lots of incentives to procure the TA50? Again pure speculation. However, some rumors are going around that they might get some naval assets from SK with the acquisition of the TA50?
 

Andri F

Banned Member
Quick question, would the Philippine Air force ever look for a brand new Cheap fighter such as Taiwan's AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo or Pakistan's JF-17.
For future MRFs, many have something to say and the top three fighters I keep hearing and reading are the F-16, the SAAB JAS 39, and the F-35.
Now I’ll show my analysis on this based on what I know:
The first barrier is the price and availability. With the meager resources being devoted to the defense needs, the F-35 is out. There’s even no concrete guarantee (correct me if I’m wrong) that the US government will avail us such an advance fighter without the intensification of the “provocations” by China.

The second barrier is interoperability with the USAF aircrafts (since they are our treaty allies and we may need each other in contingencies or outbreak of hostilities) and the F-16 immediately passed the barrier. I don’t know about the Gripen so could somebody correct me if it seems like I wrongly infer that the Gripen couldn’t operate smoothly with the 5th generation USAF assets.

So that leaves the F-16 family. And in my opinion, buying older F-16s now then upgrading them later will not be fully beneficial or economical. We could prepare for the jets and their future pilots now then buy the F-16s later. I’m eyeing the F-16V especially since it could interoperate with USAF F-22s and F-35s more smoothly. [I'll give the links ASAP when I'm allowed to post links]
Let’s just hope the V model could be finished by 2015 and we could buy it before 2016 comes or else the F-16 production line will close by 2016 if no purchase is made by 2015. [I'll give the links when I'm allowed to post links. Here's the content: The Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon has been around for over three decades and so far there have been nearly 4,500 delivered. The F-16 will continue for many years to come and Lockheed Martin has today unveiled a new version called F-16V. The new version of the fighter jet was unveiled at the Singapore Airshow and has new feature enhancements to make the aircraft more formidable.

The F-16 V gets new active electronically scanned array radar (AESA), an upgraded mission computer and architecture, along with improvements inside the cockpit. Lockheed Martin says that all of those new features are things that have been identified by the USAF and international buyers as needing improvement. The AESA radar promises significant capability improvements for the aircraft and Lockheed Martin has developed a solution to affordably retrofit the new radar to existing F-16s.

The new F-16V configuration is now an option for new production aircraft with most elements of the upgrade available for earlier F-16s. The V designation comes from Viper, which is the nickname pilots have given the F-16 since it entered service.

“We believe this F-16V will satisfy our customers’ emerging requirements and prepare them to better interoperate with the 5th generation fighters, the F-35 and F-22,” said George Standridge, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics’ vice president of business development.

Today 26 different countries fly the F-16 and it is hailed as the world's most successful fourth-generation fighter. The upgraded AESA radar will also help F-16V to be more interoperable with fifth-generation fighters like the F-35 and F-22. The USAF is reportedly interested in upgrading between 300 and 350 of its F-16s to the new version.

Lockheed Martin has an order from Iraq that is large enough to keep F-16 production line open until the end of 2015; after that it needs additional orders to keep F-16 production going into 2016. ]
 

icefrog

New Member
Would you classify Taiwan's AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo as a LIFT, MRF or both. I think if PAF wanted a cheap MRF, the AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo & the JF-17 Thunder would be the way to go. Looking at the fly away cost for both, here's the fly away cost

AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo $25 & $30 million

JF-17 Thunder : Block 1: $15–20 million, Block 2: $20–25 million

For MRF pilot training, I think they can contract it out to the USAF and pay the USAF to train their pilots.
Philippines tries very hard to observe the One-China policy and so will not be able to buy fighter jets from Taiwan. Years ago Taiwan wanted to donate their entire fleet of F5s to the Philippines but Philippines could not accept those even if they sorely need it because they want to observe the One-China policy.

The JF-17 is from China. If Pakistan is able to locally make those planes it is most likely licensed to them by China. Philippines and China are currently in a heated argument over the Scarborough/Panatag shoal. Even if they will be able to resolve their current spat, I doubt their is going to be trust to buy Chinese-made fighter jets.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
For future MRFs, many have something to say and the top three fighters I keep hearing and reading are the F-16, the SAAB JAS 39, and the F-35.
Now I’ll show my analysis on this based on what I know:
The first barrier is the price and availability. With the meager resources being devoted to the defense needs, the F-35 is out. There’s even no concrete guarantee (correct me if I’m wrong) that the US government will avail us such an advance fighter without the intensification of the “provocations” by China.

The second barrier is interoperability with the USAF aircrafts (since they are our treaty allies and we may need each other in contingencies or outbreak of hostilities) and the F-16 immediately passed the barrier. I don’t know about the Gripen so could somebody correct me if it seems like I wrongly infer that the Gripen couldn’t operate smoothly with the 5th generation USAF assets.

So that leaves the F-16 family. And in my opinion, buying older F-16s now then upgrading them later will not be fully beneficial or economical. We could prepare for the jets and their future pilots now then buy the F-16s later. I’m eyeing the F-16V especially since it could interoperate with USAF F-22s and F-35s more smoothly. [I'll give the links ASAP when I'm allowed to post links]
Let’s just hope the V model could be finished by 2015 and we could buy it before 2016 comes or else the F-16 production line will close by 2016 if no purchase is made by 2015. [I'll give the links when I'm allowed to post links. Here's the content: The Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon has been around for over three decades and so far there have been nearly 4,500 delivered. The F-16 will continue for many years to come and Lockheed Martin has today unveiled a new version called F-16V. The new version of the fighter jet was unveiled at the Singapore Airshow and has new feature enhancements to make the aircraft more formidable.

The F-16 V gets new active electronically scanned array radar (AESA), an upgraded mission computer and architecture, along with improvements inside the cockpit. Lockheed Martin says that all of those new features are things that have been identified by the USAF and international buyers as needing improvement. The AESA radar promises significant capability improvements for the aircraft and Lockheed Martin has developed a solution to affordably retrofit the new radar to existing F-16s.

The new F-16V configuration is now an option for new production aircraft with most elements of the upgrade available for earlier F-16s. The V designation comes from Viper, which is the nickname pilots have given the F-16 since it entered service.

“We believe this F-16V will satisfy our customers’ emerging requirements and prepare them to better interoperate with the 5th generation fighters, the F-35 and F-22,” said George Standridge, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics’ vice president of business development.

Today 26 different countries fly the F-16 and it is hailed as the world's most successful fourth-generation fighter. The upgraded AESA radar will also help F-16V to be more interoperable with fifth-generation fighters like the F-35 and F-22. The USAF is reportedly interested in upgrading between 300 and 350 of its F-16s to the new version.

Lockheed Martin has an order from Iraq that is large enough to keep F-16 production line open until the end of 2015; after that it needs additional orders to keep F-16 production going into 2016. ]

The Gripen will interface with US systems just fine, assuming the PAF specifies US spec radios, data-links (Link 16 - MIDS-LVT) and weapons (AMRAAM, Sidewinder, Paveway II/III, Enhanced Paveway II and Maverick missiles primarily, to guarantee resupply during operations).

The other option is ex-European airforces F-16's. Both the Netherlands and Belgium (and possibly Norway and Denmark) have significant quantities of useful second hand F-16 airframes available, that have already been upgraded quite significantly.

Opting for these may allow PAF to acquire reasonable numbers (24-36) fighters and bring them up to F-16V type standards with domestic build programs included to boost local industry.

Such would have to be spread across quite a few years by the nature of the work and to ease funding constraints, but provides a very viable capability at a low cost, and has already been demonstrably effective as seen with Chile, undertaking a similar acquisition.
 

fretburner

Banned Member
Is the military doing anything to get some infrastructure in place to support all this? Are they beginning to train new pilots and ground crews? The air force hasn't put a fighter in the air in 7 years, what are they doing to get ready for this?
I would like to know as well.

However, I'm sure the talent and the basic infrastructure should be there. The Philippines have some good things going for commercial airliners and ships, for example.

When they get the jets though, they should have everything in place. After all, these LIFTs are not going to arrive earlier than 2014.
 

icefrog

New Member
They are buying 12 lead-in fighter jets and part of the package is training of pilots and ground crew of the initial batch. Of course the purpose of LIFTs serves to locally train newer batches of pilots and ground crew once the first batch graduates to proper MRFs.

Recent reports also said that that they plan to build more airbases to support the new assets to be acquired.

LIPA, BATANGAS -- The Philippine Air Force (PAF) is eyeing the establishment of additional bases within the next two to three years as focus will be shifted to territorial defense, an official said on Friday.
The department has targeted to approve 138 modernization projects by the end of July, including three radars systems, 21 utility helicopters, 10 attack helicopters, four additional search-and-rescue helicopters, two long-range patrol aircraft, a special mission aircraft, three medium-lift aircraft and 12 lead-in fighters. These are expected to boost the air power in the next two years.
 

Andri F

Banned Member
Quick question, would the Philippine Air force ever look for a brand new Cheap fighter such as Taiwan's AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo or Pakistan's JF-17.
I've been thinking about this and I think its no.
No. 1 The F-CK-1.
If we buy it, China may think its an insult that we bought fighter jets from a "rebellious" province (Taiwan) without its "consent". That might make things worse.

No. 2 The JF-17
Very capable aircraft but with the possibility of China becoming our enemy, I don't think the Philippines will consider a fighter China has a hand in making since China may know its full capabilities and limits and how to defeat it.
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
I'm worried about the flying hours left in those second-hand birds.
The Flying hours left on European F16s are way longer than the hours left on ex USAF air craft.

For PAF, Ex European F-16s seem to be the best option, as they can't go for Russian air craft due to political reasons.
 

icefrog

New Member
Philippines already abandoned the idea of getting 2nd-hand F-16s for reasons they think it's not to worth the money refurbishing it vis-a-vis it's remaining flight hours and high maintenance of an "ageing" plane.

They are now looking into non-US planes from SK, Italy, France, UK and believe it or not some articles also mentioned Russian planes. Both 2nd-hand and b-new would be considered since a few b-new planes now such as Korea's FA-50 are roughly the same price range of a 2nd-hand F-16.

So, unless they reversed this recent decision or it's really just posturing to get a better deal for those F-16s we have to move on from the 2nd-hand F-16s idea for now.

Their budget is and I quote the PH President:
"We might end up spending $400 million or $800 million per squadron, and we were thinking of getting two squadrons," he said in an interview with Manila's Bombo Radio.

PH junks plan to buy 'ageing' F16s - InterAksyon.com

DND eyes second-hand jets, gunboats from other countries - The Philippine Star » News » Headlines

Air Force may buy non-US-made fighter jets
 
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