The moment of truth is when Taiwan realizes the only way they could defend themselves is going nuclear.
US freezes arms sales to Taiwan
- Thread starter eaf-f16
- Start date
Thats just theorycraft as Taiwan does not have the political strength to go nuclear.
No country is going to sell Taiwan any nuclear technology.(The United States which is the most powerful country in the world won't even sell them fighter jets anymore.)
And if Beijing found out, it would only give China A REASON to attack Taiwan imminently.
rockharder
New Member
The reality is the mainland side isn't taking Taiwan side as a serious threat at all. They have a very good understanding that the u.s. Is the actual power behind almost all chanlenges they are facing. I think that's not far from the truth. Naturally, their military buildup has a much much more powerful target than Taiwan. Given time, the Americans will be forced away from the Chinese shoreline farther and farther. That's the basic logic of power play, and nobody can defy it. Not even a few nukes. I only hope this process will happen peacefully, because, otherwise, the whole world will have to pay for the disastrous consequences.
Defense News Mobile
More details on the arms package..no AMRAAMs, I'd read those were part of a previous batch of weapons approved last year.
More details on the arms package..no AMRAAMs, I'd read those were part of a previous batch of weapons approved last year.
AMRAAMs were delivered in 2004.
http://www.f-16.net/news_article1199.html
It's odd that they get JDAMs this time. I don't see JDAM as a defensive weapon.
I've read references to a DoD approval in 2007 l to sell Taiwan C7 models, subject to Congress approval so no hard confirmation if they actually got the missiles.
Those sensor-fused weapons would create quite a mess if used over some congested invasion beachhhead. Same with the JDAMs.
-edit-
According to this, they have the C7 along with the older C5s.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4508720
Taiwan's 146 F-16A/B Block 20 fighters are in need of upgrades that improve avionics, survivability and combat effectiveness, the DIA report says, but "the extent of the upgrades, and timing and quantity of affected aircraft is currently unknown. The F-16A/B can be armed with the AIM-120C [AMRAAM] active-radar air-to-air missile." Taiwan has 120 AIM-120C-5 and 218 AIM-120C-7 missiles in its F-16 inventory.
I think the implicit agreement between China and US is that US will only sell defensive weapon to Taiwan. So if US sells Taiwan aircraft that can strike deep inside China, it would kind of break the idea of selling only defensive weapon. As for your assumption that these new F-16s would provide that kind of additional destructive power, please consider where J-10/11 airbases are and how many S-300 batteries and other SAMs these F-16s would have to get by to reach there.
if you look at the upgrade:
The $5.3 billion retrofit program will upgrade 145 F-16A/B fighters procured during the early 1990s. Included in the package is the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, Embedded Global Positioning System Inertial Navigation System and the Terma ALQ-213 Electronic Warfare Management System.
That's pretty impressive stuff. US has to understate it publicly to not draw Chinese ire, but it's a pretty substantive upgrade.
We will see what happens I guess. Taiwan will build more IDFs. These IDFs will probably get advanced American avionics and missiles. Which means things won't be that bad for ROCAF.
China is decreasing the number of fighters it has. Most AFs are decreasing in quantity. As long as Taiwan improve the quality of the aircraft that it does have and continue to train effectively, it will provide a formidable opposition to PLAAF.
China will invade if that happens, which is something nobody wants. Looking at all of the economic problems we have in the world right now, can you think of something that's more constructive?
And you think F-16 C/D will be able to do better than J-10B?
China is decreasing the number of fighters it has. Most AFs are decreasing in quantity. As long as Taiwan improve the quality of the aircraft that it does have and continue to train effectively, it will provide a formidable opposition to PLAAF.
Yes, they are trimming their museum-quality inventoryand will eventually wind up with a relatively smaller but significantly more capable force. Taiwan is modernizing but they must be more concerned about quantities given a smaller fleet size.
fretburner
Banned Member
Isn't the upgraded F-16s going to be very near the Block 60 configuration? And that there's a possibility of upgrading their engines as well? I believe AESA + AMRAAMs is a VERY good match with anything outside 5th Gen Fighters.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Well that's why I said, the upgrade packages 'at best' will only provide something that can 'match' J-10B. in sense I don't know (since the information still sketchy) how extensive the upgraded will be. In one hand we're talking about Block 20 F-16 (even-though some argue Taiwanese Block 20 is different with other Block 20), thus even with extensive upgraded, could it really be equivalent with Block 52 ? On the other hand, the deal for upgraded do amounted to significant contract, thus suggest possibility of something that can match the latest Block of F-16.
IF, it can be upgraded to match Block 52, and I believe the latest block of F-16 (based on what Israel and Singapore put on their Block 52 or even what Block 60 has), can match what Chinese has plan for their J-10B.
Can it do 'better' than J-10B ?? Well 'better' is such a big word and difficult to prove, isn't it ?
in terms of avionics and weaponry, it should be pretty near to block 60. But then again, I don't know more than what can be gleaned from internet sources, so I'm sure there are a lot I don't know here.
Well, the original Taiwanese block 15s were actually built to MLU standard I thought? US gave it a lower block number to hide the fact that it was selling ROCAF a more capable F-16 version.Well that's why I said, the upgrade packages 'at best' will only provide something that can 'match' J-10B. in sense I don't know (since the information still sketchy) how extensive the upgraded will be. In one hand we're talking about Block 20 F-16 (even-though some argue Taiwanese Block 20 is different with other Block 20), thus even with extensive upgraded, could it really be equivalent with Block 52 ? On the other hand, the deal for upgraded do amounted to significant contract, thus suggest possibility of something that can match the latest Block of F-16.
IF, it can be upgraded to match Block 52, and I believe the latest block of F-16 (based on what Israel and Singapore put on their Block 52 or even what Block 60 has), can match what Chinese has plan for their J-10B.
Can it do 'better' than J-10B ?? Well 'better' is such a big word and difficult to prove, isn't it ?
And we are seeing it again here where the upgrade seems to be quite significant from the outside. My point is that at least from just going over what we can see in public, it seems that the upgraded version would be on par with the A2A capability of Block 52.
IMO will tdanslate into a significant boost in capabilities. Its difficult to compare vs. The J10B considering very little is known about its real-world capabilities as against published specs. At least with the Viper, the jet has a long track record of performance in conflicts all overthe globe.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
That's what the Taiwan wants after all, something that can stand against what the latest PLAF can throw upon them.
surpreme
Member
The Taiwan Air Force will be prepared with this upgrade. There still a change that they can get 66 newer version of the F-16 C/D. With this many the Taiwan AF will have offensive abilities. The F-16 has proving itself in combat the Chinese intelligence knows that the newer version are no joke. The Chinese Air Force is modern also it was reported that it will retire some older fighters. Right now the area is well balance on both sides. If there is a fight its up in the air both air forces have highly trained pilots.
Even with this upgrade Taiwan is still far behind China in air power.
I think upgrading 145 A/B + new 66 C/D would have been more sufficient for Taiwan to keep up with China's strength. Of course that's just wishful thinking as it's highly unlikely at this point thats going to happen.
I think upgrading 145 A/B + new 66 C/D would have been more sufficient for Taiwan to keep up with China's strength. Of course that's just wishful thinking as it's highly unlikely at this point thats going to happen.
fretburner
Banned Member
^ Highly unlikely they get those 66 Bnew Block 52s they've wanted for years. Especially with Obama at helm. Maybe if he loses in 2012 the Taiwanese will get lucky and get their new airframes.
Bush Jr didn't approve the F-16 C/D either.
Taiwan should focus on their own IDF-II now.
F-15 Eagle
New Member
Yeah even if there was a new republican president, I doubt Taiwan would get F-16 C/D. They better start something on their own.
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
I wasn't suggesting that F-16s, new or upgraded, were going to do this. Some guy was going on about new missiles being able to take out Chinese airbases. I was saying that there was no such guarantee about these systems. I also said F-16s were needed to defend Taiwanese airspace.
I wasn't suggesting it's not a significant upgrade, but it will make a long time to impliment. That's why Taiwan needs to invest in its own jets, otherwise in the future the ROCAF may just have a couple of squadrons of airworthy planes.
Provided they have better engines I would agree. But this is why money needs to be invested in them.