REQ PLAAF Procurement

Moin,
I found on wiki the following Procurement Details for PLAAF:
The 21st century has seen the continuation of the modernisation programme with China's huge economic growth. It acquired 103 Su-30MKK's from 2000 to 2003, and 97 upgraded Su-30MKK2's in 2004. It also produced around 219 J-11s from 2002 onwards and bought 3 batches (at a total of 126) of the Su-27SK/UBK. Production of the J-10 fighter began in 2002. The PLAAF also began developing its own tanker aircraft, which it previously lacked, by modifying old Soviet planes such as the Tu-16 Badger (in China known as the H-6). In 2005 it announced plans to produce approximately 68 IL-76 transport planes and 30 Il-78 tanker planes, which would greatly increase its troop airlift capability and offer extended range to many aircraft.

Now most resources incl. sinodefence claim normally the following
76 MKK
24 MKK2
100 J11
76 SU27
44 IL76
8 IL78

So does this mean,that wiki once again proved to be false or are the wiki numbers right, and the remaining will be purchased?

Greetings
Navor

The wikipedia source is wrong. :Admin: Text deleted. Please refer to the Forum Rules before making further comment, ie there are other ways to point out that the reference site is open to abuse. Racial overtones are unaccptable. . The Su-27 line is terminated after making 100 planes. The sinodefence source appears to be right, though it's not official and figures may be off.

Re:

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I thought China has 100 Su-30, 200 J-11, and 76 SU-27. According to sinodefence.com.

sunjerem said:

The wikipedia source is wrong. Again hijacked by crazy Chinese people. The Su-27 line is terminated after making 100 planes. The sinodefence source appears to be right, though it's not official and figures may be off.

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hijacked by crazy Chinese people? watch your language a little bit.

Wikipedia is definitely wrong, because it's wikipedia. Sinodefence always accurate either. But as far as pre-J-11B flanker count goes, there were 76 su-27sk/ubk, 76 mkk, 24 mk2 and 105 J-11A. The IL-76 count is around 20, although many have been converted to KJ-2000 and one has been converted into an engine testbed.

tphuang said:

hijacked by crazy Chinese people? watch your language a little bit.

Wikipedia is definitely wrong, because it's wikipedia. Sinodefence always accurate either. But as far as pre-J-11B flanker count goes, there were 76 su-27sk/ubk, 76 mkk, 24 mk2 and 105 J-11A. The IL-76 count is around 20, although many have been converted to KJ-2000 and one has been converted into an engine testbed.

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What else is new Wikipeadia is always wrong, people can put whatever they want on it it does not matter if it is right or wrong. There are no mods to check it ether. Sometimes I went there and found profanity there. I mean I can go there and edit the PLAAF section and put wrong numbers there I wanted to but I don't want to, but yeah the sinodefense site is correct.

F-15 Eagle said:

What else is new Wikipeadia is always wrong, people can put whatever they want on it it does not matter if it is right or wrong. There are no mods to check it ether. Sometimes I went there and found profanity there. I mean I can go there and edit the PLAAF section and put wrong numbers there I wanted to but I don't want to, but yeah the sinodefense site is correct.

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you'd be shocked, but sinodefence is off a lot of times.

Generally speaking, the best place to check are the Chinese forums.

F-15 Eagle said:

What else is new Wikipeadia is always wrong, people can put whatever they want on it it does not matter if it is right or wrong. There are no mods to check it ether. Sometimes I went there and found profanity there. I mean I can go there and edit the PLAAF section and put wrong numbers there I wanted to but I don't want to, but yeah the sinodefense site is correct.

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Why do you assume the sinodefense site is right? At least with Wikipedia you know who has edited the article and when and if you find profanity, well you can edit it yourself to get rid of it, you are the moderator. Its funny how some people find these weaknesses in Wiki, i think they are it's strengths

You should never trust any single source, they are all done by humans and thus are susceptible to error and bias.

Re:

Deleted

Lets put it this way. The official acquisitions break down to

76 Su-27SKs and UBKs
76 Su-30MKKs
24 Su-30MK2s
105 kits for the J-11

The orbat has 11 regiments, 6 equipped with the Su-27/J-11, 5 with the Su-30.

Of the Su-30, 4 are with the MKK for 19 aircraft each, 1 with 24 aircraft and that's the sole PLANAF regiment with the Su-30MK2.

Of the Su-27/J-11, there are 6 regiments with up to 32 aircraft each. The math seems to suggest that the number of aircraft actually deployed is higher than the official number of J-11 kits imported, 116 - 105, which suggest that China could have built a small number of planes without the kits but using their pool of Russian supplied parts and engines.

These does not count developmental models used for the J-11B and WS-10A testbeds.

crobato said:

Lets put it this way. The official acquisitions break down to

76 Su-27SKs and UBKs
76 Su-30MKKs
24 Su-30MK2s
105 kits for the J-11

The orbat has 11 regiments, 6 equipped with the Su-27/J-11, 5 with the Su-30.

Of the Su-30, 4 are with the MKK for 19 aircraft each, 1 with 24 aircraft and that's the sole PLANAF regiment with the Su-30MK2.

Of the Su-27/J-11, there are 6 regiments with up to 32 aircraft each. The math seems to suggest that the number of aircraft actually deployed is higher than the official number of J-11 kits imported, 116 - 105, which suggest that China could have built a small number of planes without the kits but using their pool of Russian supplied parts and engines.

These does not count developmental models used for the J-11B and WS-10A testbeds.

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So by the time the PLAAF gets 200 J-11 they will have a Flanker fleet of 376 jets of SU-27/30 and J-11. I also thought they could get up to 48 Su-33 naval Flankers too from Russia.

By building the J-11B, they're not limited to a ceiling of 200 aircraft anymore.

crobato said:

By building the J-11B, they're not limited to a ceiling of 200 aircraft anymore.

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Oh the last time I read about the J-11 is that they were going to build 200. So there going to build more J-11, how many more?

F-15 Eagle said:

Oh the last time I read about the J-11 is that they were going to build 200. So there going to build more J-11, how many more?

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They can build as many as they need. From an interview with Sukhoi, we found out that the Russians no longer knows how many J-11B are getting built. Even several subsystems they were previously getting from the Russians are now indigenous. They only got T-10K and 2 su-33s from the Russians. I don't think they are getting anymore. No point.

tphuang said:

They can build as many as they need. From an interview with Sukhoi, we found out that the Russians no longer knows how many J-11B are getting built. Even several subsystems they were previously getting from the Russians are now indigenous. They only got T-10K and 2 su-33s from the Russians. I don't think they are getting anymore. No point.

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I thought the PLAN will get an aircraft carrier or at least they were planning on getting one, and buy some SU-33 naval Flankers from Sukhoi.

F-15 Eagle said:

I thought the PLAN will get an aircraft carrier or at least they were planning on getting one, and buy some SU-33 naval Flankers from Sukhoi.

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yeah, they purchased some samples to develop their own naval flankers based on T-10K and domestic flankers.