Brazil boosts its defence budget

drg

New Member
Here:
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-4346--12-12--.html
For those with an ear on the ground, they may be interested to know that last month (or this one, can't remember exactly) Brazil discovered a massive oil/gas deposit off its coast, and dubbed the "elephant" (large untapped field) "Tupi".
That's right...Tupi...sounds somewhat familiar...
Anyways, Tupi is gonna help the Brazilian military get fruity, if ya know what i'm sayin'
 

drg

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
And more...

Oh i forgot to mention, the other day Brazil chose Fiat to help it (assumedly with the engine) in the planned new family of IFVs for the Brazilian armed forces.
 

contedicavour

New Member
Well, just about time Brazil invested more in defence. While the region is peaceful, there is a sort of new "cold war" between the moderates (Brazil, Chile, Mexico, Colombia, Peru) and the Chavez block (Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua, Bolivia, Ecuador, sometimes Argentina).
Key priority is improving air cover by replacing F5s with more than a dozen second hand Mirage 2000s.
I'm less of a fan for a SSN, which costs an outrageous amount of money to develop and IMHO doesn't fit in with the Navy's patrol missions.

cheers
 

fylr71

New Member
Any ideas on which fighter they might choose? Because of their previous buys of French equipment Rafale would be an obvious choice however the fact that it hasn't earned any export sales and has lost every competition might make it a harder sell. The other likely option would be Gripen. The Typhoon F/A-18 E/F are too expensive and there is no precedent for Russian fighters such as the SU-35 which is being offered. The F-16 is less likely because it is an old design and the US doesn't like to do technology transfers.
The Army and Navy however will still be outdated.

The army has outdated Leopard 1 tanks Urutu APCs and Cascaval armored cars. It's helicopters are the more modern Cougar, Fennec, and Panther.

The Navy is also largely outdated possessing an aircraft carrier form 1957 equipped with A-4s and frigates from the 70s. Their Submarines are more modern and include 4 Type 209/1400 from the 80s, 1 improved 209/1400 from 1995, and 1 U214 ordered. Additionally they have one Barroso class corvette ordered.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
I would think all of the South American navies would be better off with newer assets. Instead of building frigates, or buying second hand frigates from Europe, they should invest in brand new ocean patrol vessels instead. Unfortunately, Europeans are selling off their more capable second hand frigates for less than a new OPV.

The four ex British Broadsword frigates, without either a 76 mm or 127 mm gun mounts are the cream of the Brazilian navy. But the strike elements of the South American navies are their diesel electric submarines. Outside of a border war they are mostly useless against EEZ opponents. Unfortunately, Brazil maintains the ancient aircraft carrier. However, this ancient carrier provides Brazil the best navy of the lot. That is, if Brazil can afford to steam it.
 

contedicavour

New Member
I would think all of the South American navies would be better off with newer assets. Instead of building frigates, or buying second hand frigates from Europe, they should invest in brand new ocean patrol vessels instead. Unfortunately, Europeans are selling off their more capable second hand frigates for less than a new OPV.

The four ex British Broadsword frigates, without either a 76 mm or 127 mm gun mounts are the cream of the Brazilian navy. But the strike elements of the South American navies are their diesel electric submarines. Outside of a border war they are mostly useless against EEZ opponents. Unfortunately, Brazil maintains the ancient aircraft carrier. However, this ancient carrier provides Brazil the best navy of the lot. That is, if Brazil can afford to steam it.
Ehm there is an exception to the bleak picture you are describing... Chile. With Type 23s and Karel Doorman FFGs and Scorpene SSKs it is in line with Western European navies. Amazing.

Regarding Brazil, its air force will soon improve. The dozen second hand Mirage 2000s will probably be supplemented by more second hand jets before 24 to 36 Rafale are acquired. The F5 E/Fs use Israeli Derby BVR AAMs. The AMXs are getting modernized and are decent CAS planes.
The Navy should not waste money on a SSN and start thinking of what will replace modernized Niteroi and Broadsword Batch 1. I'm surprised they didn't try to get second hand OHPs or Broadsword Batch 2 (that is, before Chile and Romania got 3 and the rest were scrapped). They can try to get used Leygues and Maestrale after 2011 when we get the FREMMs.

cheers
 

Sea Toby

New Member
Outside of the aircraft carrier Brazil has decided to maintain and operate, currently Chile appears to have the best surface fleet. However, 10 years ago I would said Argentina's surface fleet appeared more modern. 20 years ago I would have said Venezuela's or Brazil's surface fleets appeared more modern.

But maintaining and operating the ex-Foch does costs money better spent on a more newer and modern surface and subsurface fleet.
 

kilo

New Member
What Brazil really is information about what is going on at all times in their EEZ. they need more OTH radar, patrol aircraft, and sonobuoy lines. a modernized Brazilian navy should consist of.

1 CV: modified Sao Paulo with 6-8 super etendard or Rafale and ASW helos

2-4 AAW DDGs: meko 360 or maybe Horizon

4-6 multi role FFG: used type 23's, Fremm, meko A-200

4 SSK's: 209's and 214
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
2-4 AAW DDGs: meko 360 or maybe Horizon
Meko 360 - last one delivered when, 1978?

Though i bet TKMS could make you a modern "Meko A300" offer for a AAW DDG, if you got enough money to spare.

I'd maybe add a couple corvette-sized OPVs to your list - including for Amazonian duty, for which a FFG would be slightly too big..
 

F-15 Eagle

New Member
I don't see why Brazil needs to increase its defense budget. There are not any major wars or adversaries down in South America are there? Unless I'm wrong.
 

contedicavour

New Member
What Brazil really is information about what is going on at all times in their EEZ. they need more OTH radar, patrol aircraft, and sonobuoy lines. a modernized Brazilian navy should consist of.

1 CV: modified Sao Paulo with 6-8 super etendard or Rafale and ASW helos

2-4 AAW DDGs: meko 360 or maybe Horizon

4-6 multi role FFG: used type 23's, Fremm, meko A-200

4 SSK's: 209's and 214
Why would you modify a 1960s vintage carrier ? It can already operate Super Etendard and ASW helos (well it actually does, since the Argentines fly SEs off the Sao Paulo. Even Rafales can fly off the former Foch, though they cost a fortune and Brazil can't afford naval Rafales (it will already cost a fortune to buy 30-40 Rafales for the air force to replace F5s).

A Horizon costs 850 million euro... again, doesn't make sense. Some ships such as air defence FREMMs or the Spanish F100s make more sense but would still be 500-600 million euro each fully equipped.
The Germans would propose F124, not Meko which now exists only in smaller versions like the ones for South Africa.

I would also add more long range maritime patrol aircrafts such as any used P3Cs they can find.

cheers
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The Germans would propose F124, not Meko which now exists only in smaller versions like the ones for South Africa.
MEKO-X AAW/ABM DDGs would actually be the kinda thing in that kinda size and spectrum (or MEKO-D multi-purpose DDGs, i.e. F125 with two VLS, sorta). :cool:
 

Sea Toby

New Member
I don't see why Brazil needs to increase its defense budget. There are not any major wars or adversaries down in South America are there? Unless I'm wrong.
I can see Brazil acquiring some used carrier aircraft. As for any new frigates, not a one. They will probably do as the rest of Latin America does, at best buy used mid-life European frigates.

As long as the European nations sell their frigates at their mid-life point at a price less than buying brand new OPVs, this trend will continue. And yes, Chile did buy its frigates at the mid-life point. The Europeans wish to cut their defense budgets, reduce manpower, and save on mid-life upgrades. Since their navies are getting smaller and smaller, the Europeans would rather save on the upgrades and buy newer frigates brand new with the upgrades included.

The Italians. French, British, and possibly even the Germans have used frigates available. The Dutch may have already sold their available used frigates. It wouldn't surprise me if the Canadians and Americans sold a few too.

Its not as if there is a world war currently. All of the nations of Latin America are members of the Rio Pact and the Organization of American states. And yes, the Pope is available to settle any border disputes.
 
Top