Libyan military modernization

Big-E

Banned Member
Thanks a lot Izzy.

So it is plausible that Saudi could order a mix of LCS and FREMM, potentially for replacement of Al Badr corvettes and of the Madinah French frigates. Interesting. That way there wouldn't be too much of a need for enhanced AAW aboard the LCS, since the Badr they are replacing never had significant AAW...

On the Libyan Foxbats, if all they have is Acrid, a semi-active with max 40km range, I guess we can consider them obsolete. Even with their amazing speed they would stand no chance against an AIM120-equipped Typhoon.

cheers
Why would Saudi want LCS without US modular support? I don't see the need for this req when they need a better all-round FFG.

If the Foxbats haven't recieved the Russian brownfileld pack I doubt they are airworthy.
 

contedicavour

New Member
Why would Saudi want LCS without US modular support? I don't see the need for this req when they need a better all-round FFG.

If the Foxbats haven't recieved the Russian brownfileld pack I doubt they are airworthy.
May be I wasn't clear. What I meant regarding the LCS for Saudi is that Saudi can just go along with the standard USN Lockheed Martin version, without bothering to request enhanced AAW via for instance a dedicated ESSM module. Here's why :
Most discussions focused on LCS or FREMM. If Saudi takes some of both, AAW could be left with the FREMM.

Very interesting your comment on the Foxbats... though what does the Russian brownfield pack consist of ? electronics/radar update ?

cheers
 

.pt

New Member
Nice footage indeed. No topgun crap. This is from a documentary, i supose.
But is it really actual event footage? the audio track sure feels real, and perhaps some weapon (?) camera shots, but the rest just seems shelf footage of some kind of f-14 flight.
BTW in this 1984 (?) event wasn´t there a first shot from the lybian side?
regards.
.pt
 

Izzy1

Banned Member
One interesting comment I noted from Jane's World Air Forces in regards the Libyan Arab Air Force...

Russian aircrew who have been to Libya have noted the inability of Libyan pilots to become accustomed to high g-force manoeuvres.
If anyone could elaborate on that one, I would be interested to hear.
 

Big-E

Banned Member
One interesting comment I noted from Jane's World Air Forces in regards the Libyan Arab Air Force...



If anyone could elaborate on that one, I would be interested to hear.
Maybe they don't workout... it takes alot of leg strength to get accustomed to it. I lead a squat program designed to aid in high G maneuvers.
 

.pt

New Member
Big E,

Just workout could be the reason for this???
Excuse my ignorance, i´m no pilot, but besides wearing those special suits, one must be also in top physical shape to withstand high G maneuvres?
Also, i thought tolerance meant that pilots get used to these forces by way of flight maneuvres practice, is this correct?
.pt
 
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Big-E

Banned Member
Big E,

Just workout could be the reason for this???
Excuse my ignorance, i´m no pilot, but besides wearing those special suits, one must be also in top physical shape to withstand high G maneuvres?
Also, i thought tolerance meant that pilots get used to these forces by way of flight maneuvres practice, is this correct?
.pt
Strength training is important for growing accustomed to high Gs. When Gs are pressing down on the body it is very similar to having a heavy barbell on your back. Back squats are the exercise of choice when trying to train for the effects of this particular environment. Deadlifts help but don't have the direct impact you get having 300kgs on your shoulders. Navy and Marine pilots are good squaters, many of us compete in powerlifting.
 

Ths

Banned Member
.pt

Combat flying is extreemly physically demanding. G-pressure suits are an aid; but no more. G-forces are a severe strain on the circulatory system f.i. when the heart has to pump blood to the brain and the blood weighs 9 times its normal. There is a reason why combat pilots stop flying operationally after a certain age - just like athletes stop their carreer - as you grow older it gets progressively more difficult to get in shape. A very fit 80-year old will never be in better shape than a 20 year old couch-potato.

Basically that is a great air force problem, as a succesfull fighter pilot is not necessarily a good general - thus it excludes brilliant strategists from ever becoming generals if they are physically frail. Not that being a in good shape nescessarily preempts being intelligent: It is little known; but Niels Bohr was an excellent soccer-player.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #70
Russia to Supply Over $2.2bln Weapons to Libya
The sources say Libya is mostly interested in air defense systems – four batteries of S-300PMU-2 long-range antiaircraft missile systems and around 20 Top-M1 short-range antiaircraft missile systems. Moreover, Tripoli is willing to buy 12 Su-30MK2 fighters, 12 MiG-29SMT fighters and one or two submarines of Project 636. It is also ready to pay for repairing two guard-ships and a small-size missile ship that were supplied earlier
link

Modest fighter purchase maybe a larger order will come down the line.
 
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KGB

New Member
Strength training is important for growing accustomed to high Gs. When Gs are pressing down on the body it is very similar to having a heavy barbell on your back. Back squats are the exercise of choice when trying to train for the effects of this particular environment. Deadlifts help but don't have the direct impact you get having 300kgs on your shoulders. Navy and Marine pilots are good squaters, many of us compete in powerlifting.
That's probably related to an observation made by a former USAF flight doctor, that fighter pilots were prone to having hemmorhoids. All the valsalva maneuvers. Unglam, but Napoleon had em too. :D
 

contedicavour

New Member
Russia to Supply Over $2.2bln Weapons to Libya


link

Modest fighter purchase maybe a larger order will come down the line.
Ouch. At least by the time the MI29SMT and SU30 arrive we'll have over 50 operational Typhoons to guard our airspace...
I can't imagine however Dassault letting a 2nd big market go away so easily, after the loss in Algeria to the MIG29s. Libya has a lot of old MIGs and Sukhois but used to have a lot of Mirage III and F1...

cheers
 

fylr71

New Member
Ouch. At least by the time the MI29SMT and SU30 arrive we'll have over 50 operational Typhoons to guard our airspace...
I can't imagine however Dassault letting a 2nd big market go away so easily, after the loss in Algeria to the MIG29s. Libya has a lot of old MIGs and Sukhois but used to have a lot of Mirage III and F1...

cheers
Apparently Dassault isn't letting it get away.

http://www.air-attack.com/news/news...ter-over-Eurofighter---Orders-13-18-Jets.html

Haven't heard any corroborating reports on the matter except this one. Even if Libya upgrades its air-force and navy, their land forces are still in a terrible state. They haven't gotten any new equipment in at least 20 years.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Ouch. At least by the time the MI29SMT and SU30 arrive we'll have over 50 operational Typhoons to guard our airspace...
I can't imagine however Dassault letting a 2nd big market go away so easily, after the loss in Algeria to the MIG29s. Libya has a lot of old MIGs and Sukhois but used to have a lot of Mirage III and F1...

cheers
Still has some Mirage F1, & is having a minor upgrade to some of them.
 

contedicavour

New Member
Apparently Dassault isn't letting it get away.

http://www.air-attack.com/news/news...ter-over-Eurofighter---Orders-13-18-Jets.html

Haven't heard any corroborating reports on the matter except this one. Even if Libya upgrades its air-force and navy, their land forces are still in a terrible state. They haven't gotten any new equipment in at least 20 years.
Yep though Libya has several hundred T-72s and BMPs that can still be updated and be a credible defence force (Tunisia only has M60A3, Algeria has T-72, Egypt has M1A2 and to the south of Libya there are no MBTs).
Besides, Libya still operates a significant Hind attack helo force.

cheers
 

mic of orion

New Member
Very interesting - a dozen F1s with Mica fire and forget missiles are already a start. If only a dozen F1s are left, I guess all of the Mirage IIIs are non operational since even older.
I'd expect similar deals on the MIG23 Floggers, SU24 Fencers and potentially on the MIG25 Foxbats.
Then it will be a big battle between Rafale and SU30 for orders...

cheers
I thinkm, army and navy are priorities right now, I think, he'll think about Air force for a year or two and than decide. Rafale seems to me best choice, but he might opt out for Mig 29 or Su 30, but with western avionics.

Rafael is still best deal in a long run, since Libyan AF already flies Mirage F1...

I think he'll be wise old politician and think about his options.
 

F-15 Eagle

New Member
I think Libya should get the new SU-30, Mig-29, SU-25 and TU-22M aircraft to replace the TU-22, Mig-23 and Mig-25 that were retired or grounded few years ago, in my opinion, and upgrade their F-1, SU-24 aircraft.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
I think Libya should get the new SU-30, Mig-29, SU-25 and TU-22M aircraft to replace the TU-22, Mig-23 and Mig-25 that were retired or grounded few years ago, in my opinion, and upgrade their F-1, SU-24 aircraft.
And just how much money do you think Libya has?

BTW, Tu-22M hasn't been built since 1993, so new Tu-22M are rather scarce. Su-25 has also been out of production for many years. It was built in Tbilisi, in Georgia, & production ceased (apart from the Georgians completing some already on the production line, IIRC, & the Russians building a few prototypes of an upgraded version, perhaps using spares stocks) with the fall of the USSR. Also, don't you think that's an awful lot of different types? Perhaps a touch impractical. :D
 
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