what happned to Mig 1.44/1.42 and Su-47 airframes
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have there been any pictures of it lately, I herd they changed the wings on it
Scorpion82
New Member
The MiG 1.44 is stored at Zhukowski, it conducted only 2 test flights in 2000, but MiG had to return the AL-41F turbofans to Saturn as it couldn't pay for them.
The Su-47 was used as a test bed for some new technologies developed for the PAK FA programme. No idea whether the Su-47 is still flying, it was at least until 2009.
The Su-47 was used as a test bed for some new technologies developed for the PAK FA programme. No idea whether the Su-47 is still flying, it was at least until 2009.
There was no any Su-47. The name of that plane was S-47, it was just an experimental flying laboratory. Russians were experimented with opposed wings. Talking about MiG 1.44, as I know, at first, it was too heavy, secondary, there were some problems with it's enjine & MiG doesn't have enouph money to finish it. It was just a glider without avionics, radar & so on.
Su-47 Berkut, I believe, was an official designation. Also known as the S-37. There is no S-47 as far as I know.
Scorpion82
New Member
@Speznaz,
the Su-37 was turned into a Su-35 again in 2000, but crashed in 2002.
@Teren_UA,
S-37 was Sukhois internal designation for the type with the S standing for negative swept wing. Su-47 was the official designation which was later applied. As Feanor said there is no S-47.
the Su-37 was turned into a Su-35 again in 2000, but crashed in 2002.
@Teren_UA,
S-37 was Sukhois internal designation for the type with the S standing for negative swept wing. Su-47 was the official designation which was later applied. As Feanor said there is no S-47.
It was to heavy? Can you provide a source? And why did it become so heavy?
Also(Sorry for all the questions
) What kind of engine did Mikoyan plan to put into the 1.44
It was a raw product. Hence the result.
TheAZCowBoy
Banned Member
MiG 1.44
I was in Russia last year and asked about this neetest' airframe. It was basically a 'testbed' for the German swept-forward wings. It was supposed to be extremely stable but in fact it had stability problems at Mach 2.0/2,8. (Aerodynamics as the wingtips approached mach 1.5. (flutter - inferior composite materials, perhaps?) But, I believe that the problem was not the airframe but the powerplant. At 35K (wet) is was really struggling. I believe the newest MiG/Flanker series engines in the 50/65k (wet) range would make this a salable' product. But, the design is too futuristic and the nations that would be in the market for this guy are too figgitity about the design. I flew the F-104A/F-104C and we had the same problems until the J-79'sucker' was upgraded.
TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.
Call name 'CowBoy'
16 MiG's (14 MiG-21's and 2 Mig-25's
7 air medals.
3,000+ logged hours
I was in Russia last year and asked about this neetest' airframe. It was basically a 'testbed' for the German swept-forward wings. It was supposed to be extremely stable but in fact it had stability problems at Mach 2.0/2,8. (Aerodynamics as the wingtips approached mach 1.5. (flutter - inferior composite materials, perhaps?) But, I believe that the problem was not the airframe but the powerplant. At 35K (wet) is was really struggling. I believe the newest MiG/Flanker series engines in the 50/65k (wet) range would make this a salable' product. But, the design is too futuristic and the nations that would be in the market for this guy are too figgitity about the design. I flew the F-104A/F-104C and we had the same problems until the J-79'sucker' was upgraded.
TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.
Call name 'CowBoy'
16 MiG's (14 MiG-21's and 2 Mig-25's
7 air medals.
3,000+ logged hours
Welcome to defencetalk. We like to see former and current service members on here however we really need to verify your claims of prior service. Please contact me, or another moderator, via visitor messages, so we can confirm and get you the blue Defense Professional handle.I was in Russia last year and asked about this neetest' airframe. It was basically a 'testbed' for the German swept-forward wings. It was supposed to be extremely stable but in fact it had stability problems at Mach 2.0/2,8. (Aerodynamics as the wingtips approached mach 1.5. (flutter - inferior composite materials, perhaps?) But, I believe that the problem was not the airframe but the powerplant. At 35K (wet) is was really struggling. I believe the newest MiG/Flanker series engines in the 50/65k (wet) range would make this a salable' product. But, the design is too futuristic and the nations that would be in the market for this guy are too figgitity about the design. I flew the F-104A/F-104C and we had the same problems until the J-79'sucker' was upgraded.
TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.
Call name 'CowBoy'
16 MiG's (14 MiG-21's and 2 Mig-25's
7 air medals.
3,000+ logged hours
First, sorry for my mistake - in early 2000-th I have read about S-47, now I see it's Su-47 "Berkut".It was to heavy? Can you provide a source? And why did it become so heavy?
Also(Sorry for all the questions
About MiG's 1.44 weight:
ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B8%D0%93_1.44
(in Russian)
it's normal takeoff weight was 28 tons (for example, a normal takeoff weight for another heavy fighter Su-35 is 25,5 tons). About the engine - AL-41F (АЛ-41Ф in russian) was developed specially for MiG 1.44 (the work was beginning at 1982). Russian wiki says it was super-duper and so on
but all we know is that it was too big even for PAK FA (it is not a small plane )Tecnological side isn't a strongpoint of soviet planes. For example, the operating life of Mig-29-th airframe is 2500 hours (8000 for F-16), it's engine life - from 200 to 800 hours (different information) & 2000 for F-16.
I wouldn't be so sure about russians fighters future. PAK FA is a complex of well-known old technologies, but in a little bit different corps. It has an old engine now and it's new radar and avionics are just to be promised to be developed. So long as I live in Ukraine and know situation in Russia good enough, I can predict that the situation in russian aircraft industry will become worse and worse. There is a complex of reasons. The most important are: a lack of good-qualified workers and engineer (the soviet one's died or are very old), totally corruption (the companies will just steal money like "RosKosmos" did. For example, the situation with 3 GLONASS (russian GPS) satellites crashing). I have some information from "Kamov" (helicopter company) insider. He told about this company can't design new helicopters or even build the old models because of lack of qualified personnel and good equipment. New CEO (Putin's man) crashed the company, he sold all the actives he could and put money to his own pocket. I think, China or even India are more dangerous competitors for the US.
Kamov has managed a small serial run of the Ka-52. But yes they are in a pretty big hole right now. Mil is another story, with the Mi-171/Mi-8MTV5, and their Mi-35M and Mi-28N production runs. There is a lot of corruption but at the same time there is large scale serial production of many fighters and helicopters.
While I understand that things from Ukraine sure don't look too good, I would pay closer attention to the particulars of the enterprises we're talking about. Remember (unlike Ukraine) Russia has they money and the customers, to make large scale serial production worthwhile. And the PAK-FA will be competitive if only because there will be few alternatives.
As that man from "Kamov" told: "We can produse heloes, but we can't garantuee its quality anymore".
About PAK FA - enen "Rafal" projects cost was 40 bln. eur. The 5-th generation fighters are really expencive things. I like Russia and "Sukhoi", but I'm not sure that the situation will not be the same as with S-400 which is just a marketing trick and is deeply modernized S-300 without new missiles even. http____://vlasti.net/news/76911?print=1
"The S-400 is a marketing trick and is a deeply modernized S-300"? Where did you get that? Isn't the S-400 supposed to be effective on stealth?As that man from "Kamov" told: "We can produse heloes, but we can't garantuee its quality anymore".
About PAK FA - enen "Rafal" projects cost was 40 bln. eur. The 5-th generation fighters are really expencive things. I like Russia and "Sukhoi", but I'm not sure that the situation will not be the same as with S-400 which is just a marketing trick and is deeply modernized S-300 without new missiles even. http____://vlasti.net/news/76911?print=1
Sorry if that's a stupid question, I don't know much about the S series
EDIT: opps I just realized I was off topic sorry
RussianAircraft
Banned Member
Well now i see you guys started a good debate i noticed on bot aircraft sites they got rid of the aircraft in question i also know that the berkut is considered to be their new stealth fighter to compete wit the Raptor and the 1.44 is undergoing redesign actually i cant say where i learned it from but i will say that it is very strange that they get rid of the aircraft from their sites...