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Us Threatens To Block Israeli Aid If Phalcon Sale, to india proceeds.

Discussion in 'Air Force & Aviation' started by Psychosaint, Apr 1, 2003.

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  1. Psychosaint

    Psychosaint New Member

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    http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=676569&fid=942

    Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee chairman: If the objection is for commercial reasons, it is not legitimate.

    Dror Marom 27 Mar 03 17:29

    The Bush administration has informed Israeli officials in Washington that it opposes Israel’s selling three Phalcon AWACS planes to India.
    Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee chairman MK Yuval Shteinitz (Likud) said, “If the objection is for commercial reasons, it is not legitimate. The deal with India is completely different from the one with China.â€

    Steinitz told Army Radio, “If there was a risk that the planes might threaten the US, we’d take that into consideration, as an ally. However, if this is merely commercial competition, it is absolutely out of place. Although it would be unwise to confront Washington, but Israel must preserve its interests.â€

    The reports from Washington claim that the administration informed Israel that the $1 billion special military grant was contingent on canceling the Phalcon deal with India, which is worth almost $1 billion.

    In 1999, under pressure from President Bill Clinton, then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak cancelled the deal to sell four Phalcon planes to China. A probably reason for the US request to cancel sophisticated early-warning planes to India is the tension between the two nuclear powers, India and Pakistan, and the US’s delicate position arising from the Iraq War.

    The US is worried that supplying AWACS might accelerate the arms race in the already tense subcontinent.

    India has become one of the largest buyers of Israeli arms in recent years. Following the cancellation of the Phalcon deal with China, it was widely thought that the US administration was trying to improve the Boeing’s (NYSE:BA) opportunities in the global AWACS market by pressuring Israel Aircraft Industries subsidiary Elta Electronics Industries not to sell AWACS to the Chinese Air Force.
     
  2. WebMaster

    WebMaster Administrator Staff Member

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    Good, atleast US is doing THAT much for us.

    Let me get some specs on these puppies!
     
  3. WebMaster

    WebMaster Administrator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    Country of Origin Israel
    Builder IAI
    Role
    Similar Aircraft
    Wing Span 44.60 m
    Wing Area 283.40 m²
    Length 44.40 m
    Height 12.90 m
    Weight
    Engine 4 x P&W JT3D-3B
    Maximum speed 973 Km/h
    Cruising speed
    Range 6,920 Km

    The AWE&C phased array radar replaces the conventional rotodome radar. It is mounted either on the aircraft fuselage or on top of the aircraft inside a stationary dome, providing full 360° coverage. This electronically steered beam radar delivers a tremendous advantage over mechanical rotating antenna, as it supports the tracking a high maneuvering targets. The radar can detect even low flying objects from distances of hundreds of kilometers, day and night, under all weather conditions. Verification beams sent at specific, individual, newly detected targets eliminate false alarms. Moreover, track initiation is achieved in 2 to 4 seconds as compared to 20 to 40 seconds with a rotodome radar

    The IFF system employs solid state phased array technology to perform interrogation, decoding, target detection and tracking. A monopulse technique is used to implement azimuth measurement. The IFF data is automatically correlated with the phased array radar.

    The ESM/ELINT system receives, analyzes and locates radar signals, covering 360o. It combines high sensitivity with high probability of intercept, and achieves excellent accuracy in bearing measurement. The system uses narrow-band super-heterodyne receivers and wide-band instantaneous frequency measurement (IFM) techniques to provide very high accuracy and probability of intercept of airborne and surface emitters. Very high bearing accuracy for all received signals is achieved through Differential Time of Arrival (DTOA) measurements. The system also collects and analyzes ELINT data.

    The PHALCON's CSM/COMINT receives in UHF, VHF and HF, rapidly searching for airborne, shipborne or ground communications signals of interest. Selected radio nets can be monitored for signal activity. A DF capability locates targets. Detected signals can be assigned to monitoring receivers instantaneously. The system makes extensive use of computers to reduce the load on operators.

    From fas.org!
     
  4. kilo_4que

    kilo_4que New Member

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    Well as the Phalcon does consist of new technology and advance aviation, pakistanis should concentrate on what is more effective and of better value for the nation. I believe Pakistan should aim and opt for the E-3C Sentry AWACS which are the variants of their predicessors; E-3A and E-3B. These AWACS are rather old and pakistan should hold talks with the US as they would be at this moment in time planning on taking them out of service. Although they are effective and are probably the most reliable AWACS so far, we have to remeber they are rather old and is basically a Boeing 707/320 commercial airframe with a rotating radar dome.

    Another option could be the Swedish FSR 900 which is currently in service within the RAF. However with its advance technology, I dont think it would come very cheap. Obly reason I suggested these AWACS was due to the warm ties between the two nations which are at current luking even better.

    Reply bak guys with ure thoughts.
     
  5. Red aRRow

    Red aRRow Forum Bouncer

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    kilo I don't think Pakistan should go for American planes. We should be learning from our past experiences....not repeating them. So anything which includes U.S. components is a no no.
     
  6. Destroyer

    Destroyer New Member

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    Holy SHIZNIT guys I thought America would never stick up for us...It will be a fortunate situation if India ends up with No Phalcons! :D
     
  7. Destroyer

    Destroyer New Member

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  8. The Watcher

    The Watcher New Member

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    Holy crap!

    I don't think we should buy planes from US. Those idiots bug the planes like they bugged chinese PMs plane! :evil:
     
  9. kilo_4que

    kilo_4que New Member

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    Well true if u are luking at it from a specific pakistani perspective, but you have to remeber that there arent many other options available regarding AWACS due to two reasons. One being, pakistanis have no other allies that are available to provide such arms deals. N secondly the others that are available have steap prices which would be expected. Likewise, the E-3C's would be financially more beneficial.
     
  10. Destroyer

    Destroyer New Member

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    AWACS in General

    Phalcon- Said to be the best AWACS system in the world.
    [​IMG]

    Country of Origin Israel
    Builder IAI
    Role
    Similar Aircraft
    Wing Span 44.60 m
    Wing Area 283.40 m²
    Length 44.40 m
    Height 12.90 m
    Weight
    Engine 4 x P&W JT3D-3B
    Maximum speed 973 Km/h
    Cruising speed
    Range 6,920 Km

    The AWE&C phased array radar replaces the conventional rotodome radar. It is mounted either on the aircraft fuselage or on top of the aircraft inside a stationary dome, providing full 360° coverage. This electronically steered beam radar delivers a tremendous advantage over mechanical rotating antenna, as it supports the tracking a high maneuvering targets. The radar can detect even low flying objects from distances of hundreds of kilometers, day and night, under all weather conditions. Verification beams sent at specific, individual, newly detected targets eliminate false alarms. Moreover, track initiation is achieved in 2 to 4 seconds as compared to 20 to 40 seconds with a rotodome radar

    The IFF system employs solid state phased array technology to perform interrogation, decoding, target detection and tracking. A monopulse technique is used to implement azimuth measurement. The IFF data is automatically correlated with the phased array radar.

    The ESM/ELINT system receives, analyzes and locates radar signals, covering 360o. It combines high sensitivity with high probability of intercept, and achieves excellent accuracy in bearing measurement. The system uses narrow-band super-heterodyne receivers and wide-band instantaneous frequency measurement (IFM) techniques to provide very high accuracy and probability of intercept of airborne and surface emitters. Very high bearing accuracy for all received signals is achieved through Differential Time of Arrival (DTOA) measurements. The system also collects and analyzes ELINT data.

    The PHALCON's CSM/COMINT receives in UHF, VHF and HF, rapidly searching for airborne, shipborne or ground communications signals of interest. Selected radio nets can be monitored for signal activity. A DF capability locates targets. Detected signals can be assigned to monitoring receivers instantaneously. The system makes extensive use of computers to reduce the load on operators.

    [​IMG]

    767 AWACS AIRBORNE WARNING AND CONTROL SYSTEM, JAPAN
    The Boeing 767 AWACS Airborne Warning and Control System has been selected by Japan to carry out airborne surveillance and command and control (C2) operations for tactical and air defence forces. The surveillance system is based on a flexible, multi-mode radar, which enables AWACS to separate maritime and airborne targets from ground and sea clutter radar returns.

    Production of the 707 airframe, which has been used since 1977 for the E3 AWACS, ended in May 1991. Following studies of the most suitable follow-on aircraft for the AWACS mission, Boeing announced in December 1991 that it would offer a modified 767 jet as the platform for the system. Aircraft No. 1 and No. 2 were delivered to the company's first customer, the government of Japan, in March 1998. The final two aircraft were delivered in January 1999. All four aircraft entered service with the Japanese Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) in May 2000.

    The aircraft is flown by two pilots rather than four aircrew as on the E3 AWACS. There are 18 AWACS mission crew led by a mission director and a tactical director.

    767 AIRFRAME

    The wide-body configuration of the 767 offers 50% more floor space and nearly twice the volume of the 707. The basic 767 airplane is manufactured by Boeing Commercial Airplane Group in Everett, Washington, and then flown to Boeing Information, Space & Defense Systems facilities in Wichita, Kansas, where the airframe is modified to accommodate the prime mission equipment. All aircraft are returned to the Boeing Seattle facility, where mission equipment and the rotodome are installed. Major subcontractors include Northrop Grumman, General Electric, Rockwell Collins and Telephonics, which have been involved in the previous Boeing AWACS programs.

    RADAR

    The antenna systems for primary radar and the Information Friend or Foe (IFF) interrogator are mounted in a 9.1m diameter circular radome above the aircraft fuselage. The primary radar is the AN/APY-2, developed for E3 AWACS by Northrop Grumman in Baltimore. The radar operates at about 10GHz (wavelength about 10cm) in the E/F bands. It scans mechanically in azimuth at six revolutions per minute, and electronically in elevation. In flight, when the radar is not operational, the slip rings and bearings are kept lubricated by rotating the radome at one cycle per four minutes.

    The main modes of operation of the radar are: pulse Doppler non elevation scan; pulse Doppler elevation scan; beyond-the-horizon mode; maritime mode for detection of surface ships; combined operational modes using data interleaving for long-range detection; and passive mode operation in which the transmitters are switched off for radar-silent operations.

    The AWACS radar provides a 360-degree view of the area. At operating altitudes it can detect targets more than 320km away. Targets are separated and individually managed and displayed on situational displays.

    MISSION EQUIPMENT

    The main AWACS operations cabin behind the flight deck is laid out in equipment bays for communications, data and signal processing, navigation, and identification equipment. The AWACS officers and operator stations are equipped with Hazeltine command and control consoles fitted with high-resolution colour displays. The main signal and data processing computer, Lockheed Martin CC-2E, has a main storage capacity of over three million words; five times larger than that of the CC-2 computers installed on the E3 AWACS aircraft.

    The AWACS mission equipment on the 767 AWACS takes advantage of the combat-proven avionics currently employed on-board operational AWACS aircraft, and is interoperable with the AWACS aircraft currently in service.

    The aircraft's navigation system is based on two LN-100G inertial navigation systems with integrated satellite global positioning systems, supplied by Northrop Grumman (formerly Litton).

    ENGINES

    The aircraft is powered by two General Electric CF6-80C2B6FA turbofan engines, providing 61,500lb thrust. The more powerful engines on the 767 AWACS compared to the 707/E3 AWACS allow the aircraft to carry a heavier payload, have a greater range and to fly higher.

    Two electrical generators are fitted on each of the two engines, producing a total of 600kW.

    [​IMG]
    A-50 MAINSTAY AIRBORNE EARLY WARNING AND CONTROL SYSTEM, RUSSIA
    The A-50 airborne early warning and control aircraft was developed and manufactured by the Beriev Aircraft Research and Engineering Complex Joint Stock Company based at Taganrog in the Rostov Region of Russia. The A-50 aircraft was developed from the llyushin Il-76MD military transport aircraft manufactured by the Ilyushin Aviation Complex Joint Stock Company based in Moscow.

    The aircraft is known in the West by the NATO codename Mainstay. Beriev aircraft normally carry the Russian designation Be- followed by the number, however, the A-50 aircraft retained the well-known A-designation which Beriev allocated to the original prototype. The A-50 entered service with the Russian Air Force in 1984, and is thought to have 16 aircraft in service. The latest version, the A-50U was shown in 1995.

    The A-50 aircraft is intended to detect and identify airborne objects, determine their co-ordinates and flight path data and transfer the information to command posts. The A-50 also acts as control centre in guiding fighter-interceptors and tactical air forces aircraft to combat areas in order to attack ground targets at low altitudes. The role of the A-50 is comparable to that of the United States E-3 Airborne Early Warning system developed by Boeing.

    Beriev is to produce three A-50Ehl AEW aircraft for India with IAI of Israel providing the aircraft’s electronic systems. China is reported to have ordered four A-50/A-50M/U aircraft from Russia.

    PERFORMANCE

    The A-50 carries out patrol missions at an altitude of 5,000 to 10,000 metres. The patrol service ceiling is 10 km. The maximum flight range of the aircraft is 5,000 km and the flight endurance is 7 hours 40 minutes. At a range of 2,000 km, the A--50 can remain on patrol for up to 1 hour 25 minutes.

    The aircraft is manned by five flight crew and 10 mission crew.

    RADAR SYSTEM

    The A-50U airborne radar warning and guidance system is the Schnel-M produced by Vega. It consists of:
    radar station
    data reduction system
    interrogator-responder and signal transmission system
    digital computer complex
    identification friend or foe (IFF) equipment
    command radio link to guide fighters
    encoding communication system
    radio communication equipment
    telemetry/code equipment
    registering equipment
    The radar and guidance systems have the capacity to track 50 to 60 targets simultaneously and to guide 10 to 12 fighter aircraft simultaneously

    COUNTERMEASURES

    The A-50 is fitted with a self-defence system when flying en-route and over patrol zones. The self- defense system ensures protection from guided and unguided weapons of the enemy's fighters attacking the aircraft from its front and rear hemispheres. The self-defense system includes an electronic countermeasures system.

    The aircraft can also be protected from the enemy's fighter aircraft via guidance of friendly fighters.

    The aircraft radio and electronics systems are robust against hostile jamming and provide good combat performance in dense electronic countermeasures environments.

    FLIGHT CONTROL AND NAVIGATION

    The aircraft is fitted with the NPK-T flight control and navigation system used to ensure air navigation during all flight stages in all-weather day and night and all-year operations performed at all geographical latitudes. The system also provides flight control and navigation data intended for mission specific systems and equipment.

    [​IMG]
    E-2C HAWKEYE AIRBORNE EARLY WARNING AIRCRAFT, USA
    The primary role of the E-2C Hawkeye aircraft supplied by Northrop Grumman is as an all weather airborne early warning aircraft to the naval task force. From an operating altitude above 25,000 feet, the Hawkeye warns the naval task force of approaching air threats and provides threat identification and positional data to fighter aircraft such as F-14 Tomcats. Secondary roles include strike command and control, surveillance, guidance of search and rescue missions and as a relay to extend the range of communications.

    The E-2C became operational in 1973. Block II aircraft, with improved engine and radar, entered service in 1992, with final delivery in 2001. As well as the United States Navy, E-2C aircraft are in service with the navies of Egypt, Israel, Japan, Singapore and Taiwan and, in 1998, the French Navy took delivery of two aircraft for the new Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier. Deliveries have totalled more than 140 for the USN and more than 30 for other nations.

    The aircraft is operated by a crew of five with the pilot and co-pilot on the flight deck and the combat information centre officer, air control officer and radar operator stations located in the rear fuselage directly beneath the rotodome.

    DESIGN

    The fuselage is designed for carrier operations and is fitted with a nose-tow catapult attachment for accelerated carrier take-off, an A-frame arrester hook for engagement of the arresting gear and a tail bumper to withstand impact or scraping on the runway. For storage in the hangar, the wings fold hydraulically to lie flat to the fuselage. The fuselage is of light metal construction and parts of the tailplane are of composite structure in order to reduce radar signature.

    MISSION SYSTEMS

    The large 24 ft diameter circular antenna radome above the rear fuselage gives the E-2C its distinctive profile. The radome houses the AN/APA-171 antenna supplied by Randtron Systems, which rotates at 5 to 6 revolutions per minute.

    The Lockheed Martin AN/APS-145 radar is capable of tracking more than 2000 targets and controlling the interception of 40 hostile targets. One radar sweep covers 6 million cubic miles. The radar’s total radiation aperture control antenna reduces sidelobes and is robust against electronic countermeasures. It is capable of detecting aircraft at ranges greater than 550 km.

    Lockheed Martin Naval Electronics & Surveillance Systems are developing a new solid-state, electronically steered UHF radar under the E-2C Radar Modernization Program (RMP). The new radar began flight testing in July 2002 and the Advanced Hawkeye equipped with the radar, which will replace all 75 USN E-2C aircraft, is due to enter service in 2010.

    The mission computer is equipped with an enhanced high-speed parallel processor. The Lockheed Martin AN/UYQ-70 advanced display system and computer peripherals provide the operators with multicolour displays, map overlays, zoom facilities and auxiliary data displays.

    NAVIGATION AND COMMUNICATIONS

    A global positioning system and a Northrop Grumman (formerly Litton) AN/ASN-92 CAINS (Carrier Aircraft Inertial Navigation System) are the main components of the aircraft's navigation suite. The aircraft is also equipped with the AN/ASN- 50 heading and attitude reference system, an AN/ARA-50 UHF automatic direction finder from Rockwell Collins, an AN/ASW-25B automatic carrier landing system and a Honeywell AN/APN-171(V) radar altimeter.

    The communications suite includes an AN/ARC-158 UHF data link, an AN/ARQ-34 HF datalink and a Joint Tactical Information Distribution System (JTIDS) which provides secure voice and data communications.

    ENGINES

    The E-2C was originally fitted with two Allison T56-A-425 turboprop engines, but since the introduction of E-2C Group I variants, T56A-427 engines have been fitted. With the new engines, the E-2C can cruise on station for more than four hours, up to 200 miles from base.

    HAWKEYE 2000

    Major upgrade programmes are continuing to the end of the service life in 2015. The first of the next generation standard, the Hawkeye 2000, was delivered in October 2001, with 21 on order for the USN, one aircraft destined for the French Navy under a foreign military sales (FMS) agreement and two for Taiwan. USN aircraft will achieve Initial Operating Capability (IOC) in 2004. Northrop Grumman is also to upgrade a number of USN aircraft to Hawkeye 2000 configuration. Egypt is to upgrade its five E-2C Hawkeye to Hawkeye 2000 standard and will receive one additional upgraded E-2C. The Japanese Air Self Defense Force is also upgrading its 13 Hawkeye aircraft. The United Arab Emirates has requested five refurbished aircraft, upgraded to Hawkeye 2000 standard.

    Hawkeye 2000 features a Raytheon mission computer upgrade (MCU), Lockheed Martin Advanced Control Indicator Set (ACIS), co-operative engagement capability (CEC), satellite communications, new navigation and flight control systems. The MCU is based on open architecture COTS (commercial off-the-shelf) technology, with increased memory and faster processing. The CEC consists of processor, data distribution system and antenna and will enable Hawkeye 2000 to perform real-time battle management, fusing and distributing information from sources such as satellite and shipborne radar.

    The next-generation, RMP/Advanced Hawkeye, will have, as well as the new radar, theatre missile defence capabilities, multisensor integration and a tactical cockpit and should be ready for production in 2008.

    [​IMG]
    E-3 AWACS AIRBORNE WARNING AND CONTROL SYSTEM, USA
    The E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) is built by Boeing Defense & Space Group. The role of the E-3 is to carry out airborne surveillance, and command, control and communications (C3) functions for both tactical and air defence forces. In the USA the aircraft carries the designation E-3 AWACS. The UK designation is E-3 Sentry AEW (Airborne Early Warning) and the French designation is E-3 SDA.

    The E3 look-down radar has a 360° view of the horizon, and at operating altitudes has a range of more than 320km. The radar can detect and track air and sea targets simultaneously. In a tactical role, the E-3 can detect and track hostile aircraft operating at low altitudes over any terrain, and can identify and control friendly aircraft in the same airspace. In the strategic defence role, the E-3 provides the means to detect, identify, track and intercept airborne threats.

    During the 1990 to 1991 Operation Desert Storm, some 845 AWACS sorties were flown and NATO E-3s have also played a major role in the United Nations' enforcement of the no-fly zone over Bosnia and during the Kosovo crisis.

    The USAF Block 30/35 modernisation program included the following upgrades: provision of GPS (global positioning system) navigation, enhanced computer memory, installation of a JTIDS (Joint Tactical Distribution System) Class II terminal and ESM (electronic support measures) equipment.

    AIRCRAFT

    The aircraft has four flight crew (two pilots, navigator and flight engineer) and E3B and C aircraft have 18 AWACS officers and crew, the E-3A 13.

    The basic E-3 aircraft is a militarized version of the Boeing 707-320B commercial jet airframe, distinguished by the addition of a large, rotating rotodome containing the main radar, identification friend or foe (IFF) and data-link fighter-control (TADIL-C) antennas.

    The layout of the equipment in the fuselage is arranged in bays with areas allocated for communications, signal and data processing, command and control consoles, navigation and target identification systems. The signal and data processing is carried out on a high speed powerful IBM 4PiCC-1 computer. The aircraft is equipped with 14 command and control consoles fitted with high resolution colour displays supplied by Hazeltine.

    RADAR

    The primary radar housed in the rotodome is the Northrop Grumman AN/APY-1/2 AWACS radar. The radar transmitters, computers and display stations are housed within the fuselage. The radome scans at sx revolutions per minute. When the radar is not operating the radome rotation rate is set at one revolution per four minutes. The radar is multi-mode using powerful interleaving and de-interleaving algorithms. The main operating modes are: Pulse Doppler Non Elevation Scan (PDNES) for surveillance of airborne targets; Pulse Doppler Elevation Scan (PDES) to determine the target elevation; beyond the horizon pulse radar mode; receive only mode for passive operation; maritime mode which uses very short pulse width for the detection of surface ships; and standby mode.

    Boeing, with the Electronic Sensors and Systems Division of Northrop Grumman as subcontractor, have carried out an E-3 AWACS Radar System Improvement Programme (RSIP) which upgrades the capability of the AN/APY-1/2 against threats from small radar cross section targets, cruise missiles and electronic countermeasures. The improvement in sensitivity against small and stealthy targets is being achieved through the installation of a new surveillance radar computer (SRC) to replace the digital Doppler processor and radar correlator, and the translation of the associated software into ADA language. RSIP installation was completed on the NATO (17 aircraft) and UK (seven aircraft) was completed in 2000. Installation is underway on the 32 USAF E-3 AWACS and is due to be completed by 2005.

    The AN/APX-103 interrrogator, supplied by the Telephonics Corporation, provides both civil and military Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) operation and instantaneously provides a data set on all targets within the radar range. The data includes IFF status, range, azimuth and elevation position and code identification.

    ENGINES

    The USA and NATO E-3 AWACS aircraft are powered by four Pratt and Whitney TF-33-PW- 100/100A turbofan, 21,000lb-thrust jet engines, mounted in pods under the wings. The E-3 AWACS aircraft for Saudi Arabia, UK and France are powered by four CFM International CFM-56-2A-2/3 turbofan engines, developing 24,000lb thrust. The higher power CFM-56 engines allow aircraft operation at higher altitudes, extending the horizon for radar surveillance.

    The fuel tanks in the wings have a capacity of 90,500 litres which give an unrefuelled range of more than 9,250km and a flight endurance of 11 hours. For increased range the aircraft is equipped with an in-flight refuelling probe and receptacle.
     
  11. WebMaster

    WebMaster Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the info des, really cool! India would certainly have an edge over Pakistan if they get these babies! Thanks to USA they won't be getting them, unless Israel acts like a spoiled brat!
     
  12. kilo_4que

    kilo_4que New Member

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    Well if India gets what they want, they would be superiors of many nations in intelligence gathering. And what Israel needs to know is that they cant rely entirely on the US. One that the US have their own problems and commitments so Israel is gaining no benefit from such a busy nation. Likewise, Israel needs to stand on its own two feet as they do have the material to do so. However, the main reason they wont is that the undercover US aid to the Israelis would no longer be available against Palestine.

    Furthermore, the US have on various occations skanked (if you know what I mean) Israel. One occation being the deal regarding the Lavi. The Lavi was proposed as being the most deadliest fighter bomber ever to be built once in production. Some concept were made (bare in mind the US was funding the whole project) however the US pulled out just before the production took place. Reason being, their was self greed. The US thought if they went ahead with the Lavi, then sales of the F-16s and F-18s would slump and nations would target the Lavi in favour. Likewise Israel and US finally boycotted the entire project which China later purchased and is now the current J-10 project.
     
  13. AK_PAK

    AK_PAK New Member

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    Well done America
     
  14. orange_hawk

    orange_hawk New Member

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    hi guys
    nice looking and nice reading and nicer people in this forum,
    wish it will remain like this!!!

    My views on this regard is as follows,
    a. US is not going to block the sale since they know India will be getting there in one way or other, afterall the russian A-50 mainstay is better than nothing

    and since the green-pine radar is already operational on india, it takes few more years for india to come-up with some mock-ups with russian plane and isralei radar

    b. for that matters it also knows pakistan will not be affected by any sanctions and blocking since it will also get to their objective in one way or other.(china or n.k for planes and missiles)

    c. my take is this message is for the local audience or to make musaraff happy. and the stand of USA on this issue is always like a cat on wall, it hasn't told no, it has told only that it is not viable at this moment.
     
  15. kilo_4que

    kilo_4que New Member

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    A gud suggestion, however regarding Pakistan. They cant just sit around expecting something to happen. They have to act now and start shopping for AWACS otherwise would be left behind by their rivals in yet another department of military aggression
     
  16. Bharat_R

    Bharat_R New Member

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    Pakistan won't get an AWACS, cause they have no money plus they will be in defensive stance in a war with India. Pakistan should purchase powerful radars, that can track airplanes and would be more effective then a AWACS if used for self defence. BTW India knew this so they are gonna purchase 3 A-50Ehl which would have an Israel radar and it would arrive at 2005. It looks like India wanted 6 AWACS, by 2005 or around that time, but Israelis couldn't sell the 3 Phalcons because the Americans are scared that the Phalcon would snatch more of the AWACS then the US. India is a BIG defence importer, and the Americans would rather want us purchasing the E-3 Sentry just like the PAC-3 proposal.
     
  17. kilo_4que

    kilo_4que New Member

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    My friend I dont think you know much about air defence. First and foremost we know Indian and US ties are warm, but if any nation is to purchase the E-3s, its gona be Pakistan as Pakistan have shown keen interest from day one. Furthermore, do you even know what an E-3 is or what its capabilities are?

    Pakistan would purchase AWACS very soon, only obstacle for them is the few projects they currently are participating in, one being the FC-1 project.

    You speak so confidently my friend, I hope you are correct on your jurisdictions.
     
  18. Destroyer

    Destroyer New Member

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    They finally had a report about the Phalcon being suspended in Dawn.

    US asks Israel not to sell radar to India


    By Jawed Naqvi

    NEW DELHI, April 6: The United States has persuaded Israel into postponing a billion dollar defence deal with India involving the sale of Israeli Phalcon Awacs radar warning system , saying that at this juncture it could trigger tensions between India and Pakistan, news reports said on Sunday.

    "Under American pressure, Israel grudgingly has agreed to suspend the sale of an advanced airborne radar warning system to India," India's right-wing extremist Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS) reported on its website, quoting the Forward Magazine.

    "Washington fears that the sale will increase tensions between India and Pakistan, as the Bush administration wages war in Iraq and keeps a watchful eye on North Korea," the report said.

    It said Israeli sources in Washington told the Forward that Israel has agreed to defer the $1 billion sale of the Phalcon Awacs system, but has not cancelled it.

    "The American request comes as the Bush administration is asking Congress to approve a generous aid package for Israel, featuring a $1 billion grant to cover defence-related expenses and $9 billion in loan guarantees," the RSS report said.

    According to the Israeli business daily Globes, the United States conditioned the $1 billion grant on Israel's suspending the deal, the RSS report said.

    The American request is reminiscent of one made by the Clinton administration in August 2000, when it pushed Israel to cancel a $250 million sale of the Phalcon to China. Then, the United States was worried that the early warning system could be used by China against American forces in case of a military conflict over Taiwan.

    Israel unsuccessfully attempted to use its friends on Capitol Hill to beat back the administration's opposition. The short showdown strained relations between Jerusalem and Washington, and between Israel and China," the report said. It added that Israel had to financially compensate the Chinese.

    "The India deal is somewhat different. Israeli sources say that the United States, having previously granted its approval, is only asking Israel to put the deal on hold, not to cancel it," the Forward report said.
     
  19. kilo_4que

    kilo_4que New Member

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    Well there you go Bharat R, Destroyer has just posted contrary to ure high hopes of purchasing the Phalcon
     
  20. DarkAngel

    DarkAngel Banned Member

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    yaar WHEN will you people ever learn that america is nowhere the big friendly ally some people here STILL hope they are. Abhi bhi waqt hai sudhar jao. Notice its not STOPPING, just delaying the sale till its usefull for them to up the ante in the sub-continent. SO basically India is sitting pretty, at the dawn of any conflict ( except one initiated by pakistan ) you will find that that AWACS will be sitting pretty in Indian territory, i gurantee you.
     
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