Russian Air Force News & Discussion

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
If this true, then it's more likely the Project really aim for export market. The UAE usually fund/Invest projects that can provide export market potential. This part of their strategy on getting their Financial Industry more export financing market shares, to make Dubai larger share as financial hub.

This can provide alternative for current Mig 29 users.
Except when they paid for development of the Nimr armored car it turned into the highly successful Tigr armored car used by Russian military and police, and exported into many many countries. And when they funded the development of a SHORAD for their needs it produced the Pantsyr with similar results. It's completely plausible that if this turns out to be a cheaper alternative to the Su-57 while still providing decent capabilities the VVS will be interested.
 

SolarWind

Active Member
Along these lines, a smaller 5-th gen fighter may be a better match for carriers than the Su-57. Speaking of new platforms, are there any news on the MIG-41 development?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Along these lines, a smaller 5-th gen fighter may be a better match for carriers than the Su-57. Speaking of new platforms, are there any news on the MIG-41 development?
The last I heard was that work on the PAK-DP was continuing but no specifics. If they're really working on a hypersonic interceptor, it will be some time.
 

SolarWind

Active Member
The last I heard was that work on the PAK-DP was continuing but no specifics. If they're really working on a hypersonic interceptor, it will be some time.
They might be interested in fielding more mig-31-like planes well before they could produce a true hypersonic 6-th generation interceptor with all the bells and whistles. It is thus not fully clear what they are really working on. Claims that the mig-41 development is based on the mig-31 design and the plans to use engines from su-57 may contradict some of the other stated goals like low observability, hypersonic speed, sub-orbital capability, and anti-missile laser weapon.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
When skiming around You Tube, found this video that seems sponsored by Rosoboron. It's two part video talking the process of T-50 development up to become Su-57. From date, It's been in You Tube for some time. However I don't see it being posted here.

It's alright in my opinion for looking on their development process.


 
When skiming around You Tube, found this video that seems sponsored by Rosoboron. It's two part video talking the process of T-50 development up to become Su-57. From date, It's been in You Tube for some time. However I don't see it being posted here.

It's alright in my opinion for looking on their development process.


These were great videos. Watched both. A very complex project.

Art
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
We have our first photos of the new fighter being set up in the display pavilion. It looks much like the speculative renders had it looking.


EDIT: And a video.

 
Last edited:

Terran

Active Member
Looks like some of those “Mig41” fan concepts MiG-41 profile by RenderDock on DeviantArt

got it actually right. Though this is not a Mig.
We have an under nose intake along the lines of Boeing’s X32 JSF. Single engine, twin tail clearly not hypersonic or suborbital. (Guess we will just have to keep fighting the System lord invasion fleets with the US made X302 and BC304s ;) ) likely supersonic but probably not faster than F35 probably similar payload to. No naval or V/STOL (though with the state of Russian Naval forces they don’t have the decks for such) would theoretically simply things but given the status of Russia and its industry.
Questions are 1) when will they have a flyer. As realistically tho is probably just a mock.
2) can they move this to production fast enough to meet potential market wants. SU57 is nowhere near production despite being now 11 years old. And they are pushing a second and third VLO with a fourth perpetually in the background.
This is clearly targeting export but could the potential buyers get the product? On time? On Money? Even sustain it?
 
Last edited:

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Looks like some of those “Mig41” fan concepts MiG-41 profile by RenderDock on DeviantArt

got it actually right. Though this is not a Mig.
We have an under nose intake along the lines of Boeing’s X32 JSF. Single engine, twin tail clearly not hypersonic or suborbital. (Guess we will just have to keep fighting the System lord invasion fleets with the US made X302 and BC304s ;) ) likely supersonic but probably not faster than F35 probably similar payload to. No naval or V/STOL (though with the state of Russian Naval forces they don’t have the decks for such) would theoretically simply things but given the status of Russia and its industry.
Questions are 1) when will they have a flyer. As realistically tho is probably just a mock.
2) can they move this to production fast enough to meet potential market wants. SU57 is nowhere near production despite being now 11 years old. And they are pushing a second and third VLO with a fourth perpetually in the background.
This is clearly targeting export but could the potential buyers get the product? On time? On Money? Even sustain it?
Ok somethings to clear up. First off the MiG-41 name has been mentioned in relation to the PAK-DP project. Different design bureau, different program. This is the LTS by Sukhoi.

The PAK-DP is supposed to be a hypersonic (maybe) interceptor with possible suborbital high altitude flight. This is the RSK MiG project meant to be a MiG-31 replacement.

Second off the Su-57 is in production now, and the first serial aircraft has been handed over with 4 more slated for this year. The LTS is being pushed, from the looks of it, for the export market. The PAK-DP might not be LO at all, given its stated purpose. There's no 4th in the background. The PAK-DA is a bomber project.
 

Terran

Active Member
Ok somethings to clear up. First off the MiG-41 name has been mentioned in relation to the PAK-DP project. Different design bureau, different program. This is the LTS by Sukhoi.

The PAK-DP is supposed to be a hypersonic (maybe) interceptor with possible suborbital high altitude flight. This is the RSK MiG project meant to be a MiG-31 replacement.

Second off the Su-57 is in production now, and the first serial aircraft has been handed over with 4 more slated for this year. The LTS is being pushed, from the looks of it, for the export market. The PAK-DP might not be LO at all, given its stated purpose. There's no 4th in the background. The PAK-DA is a bomber project.
As stated in my post this is not a Mig. “Mig41” as a moniker has been used by CGI artists for a number of fan designs in particular I linked to one of them that has that fictional name and bears a resemblance. It’s also been attached to PAK DP under the logic of Mig31 follow on. Yet nothing seems to have come of it.

Yes SU57 is serial protection but at a snails pace rate after the first unit was destroyed in accident.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Looks like some of those “Mig41” fan concepts MiG-41 profile by RenderDock on DeviantArt

got it actually right. Though this is not a Mig.
We have an under nose intake along the lines of Boeing’s X32 JSF. Single engine, twin tail clearly not hypersonic or suborbital. (Guess we will just have to keep fighting the System lord invasion fleets with the US made X302 and BC304s ;) ) likely supersonic but probably not faster than F35 probably similar payload to. No naval or V/STOL (though with the state of Russian Naval forces they don’t have the decks for such) would theoretically simply things but given the status of Russia and its industry.
Questions are 1) when will they have a flyer. As realistically tho is probably just a mock.
2) can they move this to production fast enough to meet potential market wants. SU57 is nowhere near production despite being now 11 years old. And they are pushing a second and third VLO with a fourth perpetually in the background.
This is clearly targeting export but could the potential buyers get the product? On time? On Money? Even sustain it?
Nice to find another Deviantart-member here.
Thank you for sharing btw!
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Yes SU57 is serial protection but at a snails pace rate after the first unit was destroyed in accident.
The production pace is no slower then the projections before the accident. It was always planned to be this slow. 1 aircraft the first year, 1 the second. The 1st crashed in 2019, right before handover. The second was handed over in 2020 as planned. 4 are planned this year.
 

TaiChen

New Member
The production pace is no slower then the projections before the accident. It was always planned to be this slow. 1 aircraft the first year, 1 the second. The 1st crashed in 2019, right before handover. The second was handed over in 2020 as planned. 4 are planned this year.
4 this year? I don't think so. They announced a max of 2 this year.


But that's unlikely considering the horrible covid situation in Russia.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
4 this year? I don't think so. They announced a max of 2 this year.


But that's unlikely considering the horrible covid situation in Russia.
The original production plan broken down by year went like this: 1, 1, 2, 4, 7, 12. Now after receiving the 1 and 1, they've announced 5 this year. So not only has production not slowed after the crash it appears to have accelerated. It is possible that this information is wrong, though the source is a statement from KnAAPO. But either way there is no sign that production slowed down following the crash of the first serial aircraft. You'll note though that while 1 aircraft was produced last year it's apparently been mentioned as delivered to the troops this year which makes for 5.


EDIT: The S-500 has been revealed, conducting a launch. It's not the entire system, but we do see the launcher and one of the support vehicles.


And more images of the new fighter.

 
Last edited:

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
When I think about it Sukhoi maybe on to something here. The Russians aren't stupid and in this case it's clear that Sukhoi have leveraged technology off the Su-57 and other aircraft.

There are those in the west who claim that the thrust vectoring capability looks very nice at airshows but has no tactical use in combat, especially aerial combat. However the Russians have different CONOPS to the US military, RAF etc., and they aren't as enamoured with long range engagement as the USAF / USN, being quite happy with a merge and knife fight if the opportunity presents itself. That's where they see thrust vectoring as giving them an advantage. They also use it to shorten landing and take off distances. I gleaned all of this from the three videos on the Su-57, two of which were posted by @Ananda in post #1,925 and the video I posted in my post #1938.There's a few big ifs in the Su-75 Checkmate program, with the biggest being will Sukhoi deliver on what it's promised? Time will tell.

However the concept itself isn't silly and one that probably should be seriously considered in the west, most likely the US. Take the current technology from the F-35 and utilise it for a 5th generation light fighter. There is no need to invent any new technologies because you would be acquiring MOTS and COTS to build it. Costs can be reduced by building a digital twin. Something to think about.
 

Boagrius

Well-Known Member
When I think about it Sukhoi maybe on to something here. The Russians aren't stupid and in this case it's clear that Sukhoi have leveraged technology off the Su-57 and other aircraft.

There are those in the west who claim that the thrust vectoring capability looks very nice at airshows but has no tactical use in combat, especially aerial combat. However the Russians have different CONOPS to the US military, RAF etc., and they aren't as enamoured with long range engagement as the USAF / USN, being quite happy with a merge and knife fight if the opportunity presents itself. That's where they see thrust vectoring as giving them an advantage. They also use it to shorten landing and take off distances. I gleaned all of this from the three videos on the Su-57, two of which were posted by @Ananda in post #1,925 and the video I posted in my post #1938.There's a few big ifs in the Su-75 Checkmate program, with the biggest being will Sukhoi deliver on what it's promised? Time will tell.

However the concept itself isn't silly and one that probably should be seriously considered in the west, most likely the US. Take the current technology from the F-35 and utilise it for a 5th generation light fighter. There is no need to invent any new technologies because you would be acquiring MOTS and COTS to build it. Costs can be reduced by building a digital twin. Something to think about.
Happy to defer to the experts on this one, but my understanding is that it is a bit of a myth that US doctrine is in some way "phobic" of the merge or WVR engagements in general. Rather, the doctrine emphasises killing as many bandits as possible before the merge occurs so that you can enter it with a numerical advantage, which immediately skews the likely outcome of that merge in your favour regardless of the capabilities of the enemy aircraft being encountered. Layered on top of that is an emphasis on using missiles to do the bulk of the hard turning once in a WVR environment so that the aircraft itself can remain in a higher energy state, giving it a better chance of performing successful defensive maneuvers against incoming AAMs, and exiting the WVR environment if needed. This doesn't square well with TVC, which generally trades rapid movements in pitch/yaw for corresponding losses in energy/airspeed. The doctrinal difference is also embodied by the F35's AN/AAQ-37 system, which allows for missile cueing (in WVR) in any direction, regardless of target aspect or orientation, reducing (and possibly eliminating) the need to bleed energy in WVR.

With that said, the Checkmate strikes me as an excellent example of the kind of aircraft USAF Gen Brown may have been talking about when he floated the idea of a lightweight clean-sheet design to help replace the F16 (although possibly overkill). With a more relaxed approach to sig reduction than what we see on the Checkmate (eg. emphasis on external carriage/reduce eliminate internal bays) you might get something that leverages both 5th gen technology and superior affordability. Personally, I think an F16V might be sufficient to fill the niche, but alas, this is the Russian Air Force thread. ;-)
 
Last edited:
Top