Russian 300VM in Iran?

[Quiller]

Recent posts on a couple of military websites suggest Russia has offered Iran the S-300vm missile system in replacement for the promised S-300 to stop Iran's lawsuit in Geneva.

Observation... at first glance the S-300vm seems much more useful for Iran in light of the air and missile threats it faces than the S-300 itself.

Question: so how would delivery of the S-300vm system actually affect the military equation for US strategic and tactical planners? That is, recognizing that adequate equipping, training, etc. of systems is crucial....would the alternate missile system be a more likely deterrent to foreign air intervention in Iran?

 

[alexkvaskov]

Well doesn't it depend on which version of the S-300 we're talking about? The S-300VM is supposed to be able to shoot down MRBMs - although I doubt it can, at least not without sophisticated support systems that Iran isn't likely to have - which isn't terribly relevant for Iran. The S-300V is more mobile, but it's not like they will need to move their AD assets too much around fixed silos/reactor/what have you.

It's not likely that the S-300VM will greatly affect planning for any Western intervention. At the end of the day, it's another SAM to be located and destroyed. The different ECM and EW capabilities as well as the different engagement envelope and detection ranges will be taken into account. Is it known which S-300 Iran wanted to procure? If it was something like an older PT or PS, the VM will definitely affect planning for an air campaign as it's much more modern and capable. On the other hand, if it was an S-300PMU-1/2 that the VM is called to substitute, both systems are modern and about equally effective.

It makes less sense to have a system design to shoot down ballistic missiles than aircraft/cruise missiles though, since that's the greatest threat Iran faces from a Western air campaign.

 

[Quiller]

I suppose my original question wasn't properly posed in some respects. What I should have asked is, what are the significant tactical differences fielding the
S300PMU 1 versus the S300VM? Iran originally paid for the S300PMU-1 which has never been delivered. The Russians have offered, instead, to deliver the S300VM iteration of the system. What do the Russians gain (or lose) politically in the trade, and what would Iran gain or lose tactically in the trade?

Iran hasn't accepted the S300VM as a replacement. Why would they prefer the PMU-1 over the VM version?

 

[alexkvaskov]

If the S-300VM is not an export system, then Russia will be particularly interested in the results of a Western air campaign against one of its more modern and actual domestic AD systems. Inevitably this system alone will not greatly influence the outcome of an air campaign, raising the decades old problem for Russian gear in the hands of other countries - poorly trained and under equipped (relative to Russia) and performing poorly against Western/Western-equipped/style forces. Whereas with the export PMU, Russia could hide behind it being an export, "monkey model" system.

Iran probably wouldn't gain or lose much as there is so much more than a couple modern SAM batteries and radars they need to credibly withstand a Western air campaign, IMHO.

 

[Feanor]

The S-300VM is an export variant of the S-300V upgrade. The domestic equivalent is called the S-300V4. It's extremely likely, though not certain, that the S-300V4 is far more advanced then the VM.

 

[persiancat]

russia says that if iran withdraws its 4bl$ law suit which is for russia's non-complying with the s-300 deal , it will provide iran with s-300vm!!

unfortunately russia has forgotten the fact that iran is undergoing the final tests on its new long-range AD sys. called bavar 373!!!!

B373 sys. has allegedly much more capabilities than s-300

iran has also produced mobile version of s-200

 

[Feanor]

It was misinformation. Or an extremely timely leak. The article ran in Kommersant, and was quickly followed by a denial from the office of the president, by his press secretary. We'll see what follows this.

Lenta.ru:

 

[persiancat]

It was misinformation. Or an extremely timely leak. The article ran in Kommersant, and was quickly followed by a denial from the office of the president, by his press secretary. We'll see what follows this.

the iranian sources also confirm that there will talks upon the issue between presidents of the 2 country in new york ,
anyway i dont think that iran will accept the offer if they dont change it to
s-300 pmu-2 or sth.....!